SOPHIA: Eastern Catholicism Census

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mardukm

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I’m interested to see how many of us there are here in CAF. Hope no one minds.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
I’m still technically in Canonical transition, but I’ve been practicing as a Melkite for several years now, so I voted Eastern Catholic (Byzantine).

Peace and God bless!
 
Ghosty said:
I’m still technically in Canonical transition, but I’ve been practicing as a Melkite for several years now, so I voted Eastern Catholic (Byzantine).

Peace and God bless!
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When the transition is completed, will your profile read “Melkite Catholic with Latin ties.”😉

😃
 
I would be interesting - at least to me - to see a breakdown of the various Eastern Catholics.

I can not seem to vote in the poll - if I would I would have to pick “Byzantine” - although clearly I would want it to read “Melkite.”
 
German_Melkite said:
I would be interesting - at least to me - to see a breakdown of the various Eastern Catholics.
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That is probably because of your status as “observing member.” I have never seen that before. You might want to PM the moderator about that. I notice there are several other “status” designations that I’ve never seen before prior to the site remodeling done last week.
I can not seem to vote in the poll - if I would I would have to pick “Byzantine” - although clearly I would want it to read “Melkite.”
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Sorry about that. I was only thinking of differentiating generally.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
Why are the Chaldeans under “Oriental”?
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Last year, I asked a Chaldean if I could classify them as “Oriental” (as distinct from “Eastern” who are traditionally Byzantine), and that person said “yes.”🤷 Should there be another category? And why (if you don’t mind my asking)?

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
Last year, I asked a Chaldean if I could classify them as “Oriental” (as distinct from “Eastern” who are traditionally Byzantine), and that person said “yes.”🤷 Should there be another category? And why (if you don’t mind my asking)?

Blessings,
Marduk
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I’ve never heard the Chaldean Church classified that way, thats all. Perhaps you can explain why you separated “Church of the East” and “Chaldeans” (ie: Chaldean Catholic Church).
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
I’ve never heard the Chaldean Church classified that way, thats all.
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In fact, the “Oriental Catholic” designation, as distinct from “Eastern Catholic,” is unique in and of itself. Normally, ALL Catholics that are not Latin are lumped together as “Eastern.” I would take the blame for this new designation. When I first came onto CAF, newly translated from Oriental Orthodoxy, I did not feel at all comfortable calling myself an “Eastern Catholic.” And in my days when I was not in communion with Rome, I was always wary of the influence of Byzantine converts into Coptic Orthodoxy, who attempted to downplay our traditional penitential spirituality, or explicit adherence to the doctrine of the Atonement, and other things besides. In other words, I had a distinct awareness of my identity as an ORIENTAL Christian, with a theology/theological language/spirituality - and even ecclesiology - distinct from my Eastern brethren. I started pointing out this distinction when I came onto CAF, worried that the representation of my distinct heritage would be swallowed up in the “Eastern” designation. Slowly, I found others here who were also proud of their Oriental heritage, distinct from the Byzantines. And I guess the designation “Oriental Catholic” stuck (thankfully, from my POV). I venture to guess that the designation “Oriental Catholic” might even be unique to CAF altogether.
Perhaps you can explain why you separated “Church of the East” and “Chaldeans” (ie: Chaldean Catholic Church).
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In fact, I only found out a few months ago that Chaldeans share the same patrimony as the Church of the East. I separated Church of the East from the Chaldeans in the same way I separated Eastern Orthodox from Eastern Catholics, etc.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
In fact, I only found out a few months ago that Chaldeans share the same patrimony as the Church of the East. I separated Church of the East from the Chaldeans in the same way I separated Eastern Orthodox from Eastern Catholics, etc.

Blessings,
Marduk
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but that is still not enough. The Church of the East is a super-set of all the current churches, namely the Chaldean Catholic Church, the Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East, and Ancient Church of the East. Hence, by giving them the title “Church of the East” would somehow imply that I am not part of the CotE, which is not the case.
 
Dear brother Chaldean Rite,

To be perfectly honest. I know next to nothing about the Churches of the East. As you might know, there was historic animosity between the Coptic Orthodox and the Ancient Church of the East. I had that animosity when I was not in communion with Rome. I do not have it anymore as a Catholic, but my knowledge is still very limited. I was even unsure what the official designation was - Church of the East or Ancient Church of the East, or some other one.

Sorry for my ignorance, and thank you for the knowledge.

I was wondering why the one person that voted in the poll under “Church of the East” is a “Catholic” in his bio. You have settled that matter in my mind. Thank you!

So are you going to vote? And if you vote, are you going with CoE, or Oriental Catholic (given our conversation)?

Blessings,
Marduk
 
mardukm said:
Dear brother Chaldean Rite,

To be perfectly honest. I know next to nothing about the Churches of the East. As you might know, there was historic animosity between the Coptic Orthodox and the Ancient Church of the East. I had that animosity when I was not in communion with Rome. I do not have it anymore as a Catholic, but my knowledge is still very limited. I was even unsure what the official designation was - Church of the East or Ancient Church of the East, or some other one.

Sorry for my ignorance, and thank you for the knowledge.

I was wondering why the one person that voted in the poll under “Church of the East” is a “Catholic” in his bio. You have settled that matter in my mind. Thank you!

So are you going to vote? And if you vote, are you going with CoE, or Oriental Catholic (given our conversation)?

Blessings,
Marduk
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I believe Church of the East is most accurate. St. Ephrem would have probably used the same term. The main reason the Holy Father designated us as “Chaldean Catholics”, in my understanding, is to not bunch us together with our separated brethren who were not in full communion with the Church.
 
Even though I am a vowed (simple vows) brother in a Latin Catholic religious order (Carmelites) I am still canonically a Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic.
 
I’m Byzantine…transferred rites when I married my husband who, when he converted to Catholicism, became a Byzantine Catholic. My transfer of rites was quick and easy because of the “marriage clause.” Wanted to do it for a long time, but had kicked the tires for a while before taking the plunge.
 
Brother Mardukm,

The Chaldean Church’s official title is The Holy Apostolic Chaldean Catholic Church of the East.

The other two non-Catholic Churches of the East are the one’s mentioned earlier.

I hope this distinction would clarify the matter.
 
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