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brb3
Guest
Have recent Popes denounced the heresy ?
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ltwin
Guest
What is Sophianism?
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SonCatcher
Guest
It seems to be a phenomenon that primarily impact Russian Orthodoxy. Thus, there is little for the Pope or the Magesterium to address. In that light, it seems unlikely that Greek Orthodoxy would have addressed it directly.
If the phenomenon becomes a problem in Catholicism (and I have heard evidence that it might) then it will be addressed at that time.
If the phenomenon becomes a problem in Catholicism (and I have heard evidence that it might) then it will be addressed at that time.
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capablanca911
Guest
Gnosticism in all of its forms was so thoroughly debunked by Irenaeus it didn’t even live long enough to get condemned by an ecumenical council.
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ExGratia
Guest
What an odd thing to imply…that Gnosticism is dead?
Freemasonry, the History Channel producers, much of the university system, Scientology, much of today’s fantasy/science fiction genre, the New Age Movement…
So much of our world is colored by Gnosticism and its various “branches” (Docetism, Manichaeism, Satanism). Gnostic thought is still very dangerous and is present, whether or not it is always given an official “ism” at the end.
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brb3
Guest
Belief that Mary joined forces with HS to become a Female 4th person (GODDESS) of Godhead.
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De_Montfort
Guest
Mary is a creature and not God. It follows all that She has is from God.
The Holy Spirit and Mary live in such intimate union that they have one sole life.
Mary represents the Holy Spirit a visible image if you will.
CCC967
“By her complete adherence to the Fathers will, to His Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity.”
The action of Mary is the very action of the Holy Spirit. He is inseperable from Her because He chose to share in the same mission with Her to create (incarnate) Christ in us all.
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PeterK
Guest
Is this your private assessment or an actual teaching of the church?
I would have to think that the eternal life of the Holy Spirit is something quite beyond that of Mary’s created life. “one soul life” starts to sound consubstantial. Talking off the cuff here, to be sure. Don’t get me wrong. Imacculate conception, virgin birth, perpetual virginity, assumption… No problem, all favors from God. But, “The Holy Spirit and Mary … have one sole life.” is quite a different expression than say, ‘Mary handed over her entire life to the inspirations of the Holy Spirit.’
Just checking.
Peterk
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brb3
Guest
I’m in PeterK’s camp … lets don’t let a heresy about Mary get a foothold in the Catholic Church !!!
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De_Montfort
Guest
At Lourdes Our Lady gave Her name as “I am the Immaculate Conception.” St. Maximilian Kolbe taught that the Holy Spirit is the eternal uncreated Immaculate Conception between the love of the Father and the Son. She identified Herself WITH the Holy Spirit WITH is not to be taken as IN PLACE OF or EQUAL TO.
Mary had no other life but in complete union with God. She is the Holy Spirits sancutary, an icon of the Holy Spirit. Mary is God’s masterpiece, to say that Her and the Holy Spirit have one sole life only points to the fact she had no other will but complete union with God’s will.
Show me a document from the Church that says Mary and the Holy Spirit having one sole life is a heresy. The Church has not spoken either way yet. But I will take my advise from Saints of the Church and Holy Popes before anyone else and from what I have gathered from them it is sound. In no way does saying “one sole life” make Mary equal to God. It just merely states their complete and total union. No need to make it out as something it’s not!..
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PeterK
Guest
Ok, that answered it. It’s your private assessment based on things you’ve contemplated. Thanks.
Peterk
Peterk
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Cavaradossi
Guest
Well, it seems that what he stated is factual, insofar as I have seen such teachings attributed to Maximilian Kolbe by Dr. Mark Miravalle, who is a Roman Catholic theologian of good standing, holding both a doctorate and a theological license from the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome.
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KLJM12
Guest
It sounds like someone is giving latria to Our Lady rather than the hyperdulia she is due.
Mary had free will. To say that her will was God’s will is ridiculous. She said “let it be done unto me according to THY will”. She was submissive to God’s will, which is one very important reason why we venerate her as we do.
I must say, your statement above is strange. “In no way does saying “one sole life” make Mary equal to God. It just merely states their complete and total union.”. I don’t follow the logic here. So Mary’s life + Holy Spirit’s life = 1 life? She is not part of the Trinity. She was COMPLETELY HUMAN.
And she was the Immaculate Conceptions…because she was conceived immaculately. She was merely identifying herself. You are drawing conclusions that you have not supported with any evidence beyond your own conjecture.
And Mary most certainly had a life of her own. Otherwise she would have been just a tool for the conception of Chist. She had a free will and her own life, which is why she is so venerated.
Seek a priest’s guidance.
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McDale721
Guest
Gotta say I’m with brb on this one. This one is way out there. I can understand that Mary so perfectly conformed her will to the HS that all that she did was at one with the will of the HS, but to equate her life to the life of the HS or to make her a part of the Trinity would be in error.
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ahs
Guest
Yep.
eh…this is your private understanding of 1 Catechism reference? (…which says nothing of the sort…)
Quite a difference between being a model of faith/charity and having “one sole life” with the Holy Spirit. The CCC reference does not support your understanding at all. Is this really your understanding, or are you just telling us what “Sophianism” is?
Um…not accurate. The action of Mary could be said to be a result of Grace given by the Holy Spirit…but they are not inseperable, excpet to say that the Holy Siprit is with Mary, just as the HS dwells within each of us…and Mary is in Heaven.
Mary had no other life but in complete union with God. She is the Holy Spirits sancutary, an icon of the Holy Spirit. Mary is God’s masterpiece, to say that Her and the Holy Spirit have one sole life only points to the fact she had no other will but complete union with God’s will.
But this does not equate to having “one sole life”. “One sole life” points to a consubstantial exisitence…which Mary does not share with the Triune God. She is the Queen of Heaven and earth, and the Theotokos…but not “one sole life” with God.
Must the Churhc have proclaimed something as a heresey inorder for it to be wrong?
Eh…no, you aren’t taking advice from Saints or Popes. You are applying your own understanding of their words (which actually say NOTHING like what you are saying, in my opinion) and coming up with this “one sole life” which, in my opinion, is teetering on the edge of a hertical belief.
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De_Montfort
Guest
Nothing I have said is my "personal opinion, I have quoted St. Maximilian Kolbe striaght from his mouth when I say Mary and the Holy Spirit have “one sole life”. Mary as a creature had no other life, but the life of God’s will and fulfilling that will perfectly.
“Only those who have fallen in love with God and have no envy in their hearts can begin to grasp the love between the Holy Spirit and the Immaculate Virgin. It is a love where one seeks only what the other seeks; a love that wills only what the other wills; a love that unites one to the other totally and absolutely without any seperation whatsoever; a love so total and unitive and intimate it is ‘almost’ as if there is no distinction between them”
(Fr. Patrick Greenough, OFM CONV.) This is a forward on St Maximilian Kolbe writtings.
“By saying “I am the Immaculate Conception” Mary clearly showed that she is intimately united with the third Person of the Trinity whose privileged sanctuary, whose image she is; we can truly say that her life is the very life of the Holy Spirit in her.”
St. Maximilian Kolbe had no issues using the word “spouse” in fact he states that this human word is far to weak to explain the total relationship and bond between Mary and the Holy Spirit.
“The Mother of God is the most perfect of all creatures; she is immaculate, full of grace, all beautiful; From Her God receives the highest glory a creature can possibly give him, So perfect is she, so closely bound to the Holy Spirit, that we can call her spouse.”
Blessed Pope John Paul II proclaimed him a saint of the Catholic Church! He called him an apostle of a new Marian age. Are we saying in this thread that a Pope is allowing heresy, are we saying the Catholic Church can make a mistake in proclaiming a Saint?
I follow the Vicar of Christ who are the Popes and I trust in Christs Church! Only on this website are ones who pick a choose what they want to believe and blow them off others as “private revelations”
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Ignatius
Guest
Sophianism (the worship of the godess of wisdom) isn’t a heresy, it is paganism. Christians believe in only one God and worship Him alone.
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