Soul departing the body after death: Question on belief

[victrolatim]

I recently was talking to my girlfriend’s grandmother about planning her husband’s funeral (he is in the final stages of cancer, most likely will not make it to next week). Since I am close to the family and have professional vocal training, he, when he was well, asked me to sing his funeral Mass. The grandmother told me that the mass would be 3 days after his death because “that is how long it takes the soul to leave the body”. I have never heard this before. Is this somewhere in scripture or Catholic custom? I know there was 3 days between Jesus’ death and resurrection but I have never heard that the soul remains for 3 days.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

The grandmother told me that the mass would be 3 days after his death because “that is how long it takes the soul to leave the body”. I have never heard this before. Is this somewhere in scripture or Catholic custom? I know there was 3 days between Jesus’ death and resurrection but I have never heard that the soul remains for 3 days.

No. The reason you have not heard this before is because what she says is, in fact, not correct.

 

[GEddie]

There is a folklorical belief to that effect, however, it forms no part of Church teaching.

The Church does not pronounce on when soul leaves the body, other than the soul is the life, so that when body deterioration has set in (life irreversibly gone) the soul has gone. In situations where life returns after apparent death (cessation of life functions), it is believed the soul never left.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Lily_Bernans]

There is a folklorical belief to that effect, however, it forms no part of Church teaching.

The Church does not pronounce on when soul leaves the body, other than the soul is the life, so that when body deterioration has set in (life irreversibly gone) the soul has gone. In situations where life returns after apparent death (cessation of life functions), it is believed the soul never left.

ICXC NIKA

I agree with you, but I had no idea that was a belief of folklore. Thanks for the information. Sometimes I wonder how many of our current beliefs will be seen as false in the future.

I’ve also read that one can “feel” the soul leave the body at the back of the head. I don’t put any stock in that and believe it’s a “New Age” belief.

 

[GEddie]

I agree with you, but I had no idea that was a belief of folklore. Thanks for the information. Sometimes I wonder how many of our current beliefs will be seen as false in the future.

I’ve also read that one can “feel” the soul leave the body at the back of the head. I don’t put any stock in that and believe it’s a “New Age” belief.

Explain further. Who feels this? Certainly not the dead individual?

There is a common idea that our souls reside in our heads, because our mind – which is a process of our soul – does live in our head. But because soul is life, it fills the whole body.

The theosophical belief in a “silver cord” joining us to our “astral body” has this bound to the heads of both bodies. But theosophy is classical New Age.

The idea of a journey of the soul beginning or ending on the third day of death goes at least back to Plato.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Explain further. Who feels this? Certainly not the dead individual?

There is a common idea that our souls reside in our heads, because our mind – which is a process of our soul – does live in our head. But because soul is life, it fills the whole body.

The theosophical belief in a “silver cord” joining us to our “astral body” has this bound to the heads of both bodies. But theosophy is classical New Age.

The idea of a journey of the soul beginning or ending on the third day of death goes at least back to Plato.

ICXC NIKA.

I don’t really know much about the belief of some that they can “feel” the soul departing. It’s something I read when I was a teenager, I think, probably in a book on theosophy because I found that interesting for a time back then. I had never heard of the “silver cord” until I read of the death of Bishop Pike in the desert in Israel. It’s not a belief I share, of course, never did.

Thank you for the information.

 

[Neofight]

The folklore GEddie speaks of goes back to Jewish antiquity, where they believed it was the smell of decomposition that drove the soul from the body, and is alluded to in the Gospel of John’s telling of the raising of Lazarus, where it was noted Lazarus had been dead for four days, and decomposition was causing a stench.

This is why the raising of Lazarus was not just a miracle (as the raising of the widow’s son at Nain (Luke chapter 7), or Jarius’ daughter (Matthew Chapter 9), but a sign (the difference between a miracle and a sign is that many perform miracles, but the 7 signs John tells us of are more than miracles; they are signs that Jesus is not just a Holy man, but he is divine).

Don, was correct, in indicating the belief that the soul leaves the body post death x 3 days, according to Catholic teaching, but he didn’t offer details.

Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraph 1022 tells us, "Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven—through a purification or immediately,—or immediate and everlasting damnation.".

Peace and all good!

 

[Micosil]

There is a folklorical belief to that effect, however, it forms no part of Church teaching.

The Church does not pronounce on when soul leaves the body, other than the soul is the life, so that when body deterioration has set in (life irreversibly gone) the soul has gone. In situations where life returns after apparent death (cessation of life functions), it is believed the soul never left.

ICXC NIKA

A bit off-topic here, but if body deterioration has set in is what is looked at to judge when the soul has gone, what about incorruptible saints?

 

[GEddie]

A bit off-topic here, but if body deterioration has set in is what is looked at to judge when the soul has gone, what about incorruptible saints?

Even in incorruption there are changes in the body that make clear life is no longer operating: the skin becomes cold, limbs stiff, etc. Things like rigor-mortis and settling of the blood are truthfully the first stage of body deterioration.

Later on, there are more permanent changes, i.e., discoloration of the skin due to reaction with air pollution, as in the case of Saint John Neumann, 1860+.

Obviously, if the life functions are absent for an extended time, the soul has gone. But because the first changes driving life (= soul) from the human body occur microscopically, there is no way, short of the body deterioration, to be certain life has ended; even now, with our vaunted diagnostic gear, persons believed dead often “come back.” Heqq, that is why so many books on near-death experiences.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Jeannie52]

The folklore GEddie speaks of goes back to Jewish antiquity, where they believed it was the smell of decomposition that drove the soul from the body, and is alluded to in the Gospel of John’s telling of the raising of Lazarus, where it was noted Lazarus had been dead for four days, and decomposition was causing a stench.

This is why the raising of Lazarus was not just a miracle (as the raising of the widow’s son at Nain (Luke chapter 7), or Jarius’ daughter (Matthew Chapter 9), but a sign (the difference between a miracle and a sign is that many perform miracles, but the 7 signs John tells us of are more than miracles; they are signs that Jesus is not just a Holy man, but he is divine).

Don, was correct, in indicating the belief that the soul leaves the body post death x 3 days, according to Catholic teaching, but he didn’t offer details.

Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraph 1022 tells us, "Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven—through a purification or immediately,—or immediate and everlasting damnation.".

Peace and all good!

I found the information you shared to be helpful in explaining about what happens to our soul after our death. I appreciate it and thank you.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Explain further. Who feels this? Certainly not the dead individual?

There is a common idea that our souls reside in our heads, because our mind – which is a process of our soul – does live in our head. But because soul is life, it fills the whole body.

The theosophical belief in a “silver cord” joining us to our “astral body” has this bound to the heads of both bodies. But theosophy is classical New Age.

The idea of a journey of the soul beginning or ending on the third day of death goes at least back to Plato.

ICXC NIKA.

Oh, no, not the dead individual! I couldn’t read your post well this morning - low light in this room at that time. I’m sorry.

No, in some theosophy book I was attracted to in my teens I read that living people can feel the soul of the “just dead” depart by placing their hand very hear the back of the dead person’s head. I didn’t buy it then and don’t now. I was only interested in theosophy for about a year in my teens, then I switched to Catholic mysticism. I found a very rich supply of reading material on that subject. I still read writings by the great mystics when I have the time. My uncles, on both sides, who are priests, also were instrumental in interesting me in the great Catholic mystics.

 

[Thomas_White]

I read some time ago that it is believed in certain traditions that the soul is in the heart rather than the mind. This made some sense to me. It is only a belief, of course, and I do not know its origins. But I thought it was interesting.

There is, for instance, in Catholic teaching the concept of God’s law inscribed on the heart and heard as the voice of conscience.

 

[Brendan]

I read some time ago that it is believed in certain traditions that the soul is in the heart rather than the mind…

The Catholic understanding is that the soul the form of the body, in that the presence of an animating soul is what defines the body. The body then being defined as all matter being animated by a particular soul.

So it would be more accurate to say the body is within the soul, not the soul within the body.

But, or course, both claims are incorrect, in that the soul is a non-corporal entity, so that is meaningless to describe it in corporal terms.

 

[Thomas_White]

But, or course, both claims are incorrect, in that the soul is a non-corporal entity, so that is meaningless to describe it in corporal terms.

Thanks. I didn’t know that.

 

[GEddie]

I read some time ago that it is believed in certain traditions that the soul is in the heart rather than the mind. This made some sense to me. It is only a belief, of course, and I do not know its origins. But I thought it was interesting.

There is, for instance, in Catholic teaching the concept of God’s law inscribed on the heart and heard as the voice of conscience.

It comes from the classical Egyptians, which is why they carefully preserved the hearts of their dead, while extracting the brain through the nose and discarding it.

It makes no sense to me. Hearts get transplanted all over the world but the person’s psyche (soul) does not change, gooey romantic chickflicks aside

At the same time, the “soul is not in the mind.” The soul generates the mind, but fills the body.

ICXC NIKA

 

[steve_b]

I recently was talking to my girlfriend’s grandmother about planning her husband’s funeral (he is in the final stages of cancer, most likely will not make it to next week). Since I am close to the family and have professional vocal training, he, when he was well, asked me to sing his funeral Mass. The grandmother told me that the mass would be 3 days after his death because “that is how long it takes the soul to leave the body”. I have never heard this before. Is this somewhere in scripture or Catholic custom? I know there was 3 days between Jesus’ death and resurrection but I have never heard that the soul remains for 3 days.

This sound like the old custom of a wake.

Before all the technology we have today, the reason for a 3 day wake way back when, is to make sure the person is really dead and not in a coma or some other state of unconsciousness. The reason it was an issue is because, grave robbers would tell stories of seeing claw marks on the hood of the coffins they opened to rob. IOW people were buried too soon, and really weren’t dead.

I’m not saying this is what the grandmother is referring to but it might be tied to it.

 

[thistle]

I recently was talking to my girlfriend’s grandmother about planning her husband’s funeral (he is in the final stages of cancer, most likely will not make it to next week). Since I am close to the family and have professional vocal training, he, when he was well, asked me to sing his funeral Mass. **The grandmother told me that the mass would be 3 days after his death because “that is how long it takes the soul to leave the body”. I **have never heard this before. Is this somewhere in scripture or Catholic custom? I know there was 3 days between Jesus’ death and resurrection but I have never heard that the soul remains for 3 days.

Sorry but that is nonsense and certainly not taught by the Church.

 

[Sarcelle]

This sound like the old custom of a wake.

Before all the technology we have today, the reason for a 3 day wake way back when, is to make sure the person is really dead and not in a coma or some other state of unconsciousness. The reason it was an issue is because, grave robbers would tell stories of seeing claw marks on the hood of the coffins they opened to rob. IOW people were buried too soon, and really weren’t dead.

I’m not saying this is what the grandmother is referring to but it might be tied to it.

This seems like a more plausible explanation for this custom.

By the way, there is a rather scary condition suffered by some people where they suffer paralysis and seem to the outside world like they are dead. They are however conscious and acutely aware of what is going on around them only they can’t move a limb much less talk. One particularly scary story is of a woman who was pronounced dead and was wheeled to the morgue. She was all aware of what was happening but could not do anything about it. Thankfully she regained her ability to move and talk while in the morgue. She sat up and asked for a glass of water. Her sudden “coming to life” so to speak gave the morgue attendant the fright of his life.

This rare and debilitating condition can also fool doctors as evidenced by the example above.

 

[GEddie]

This seems like a more plausible explanation for this custom.

By the way, there is a rather scary condition suffered by some people where they suffer paralysis and seem to the outside world like they are dead. They are however conscious and acutely aware of what is going on around them only they can’t move a limb much less talk. One particularly scary story is of a woman who was pronounced dead and was wheeled to the morgue. She was all aware of what was happening but could not do anything about it. Thankfully she regained her ability to move and talk while in the morgue. She sat up and asked for a glass of water. Her sudden “coming to life” so to speak gave the morgue attendant the fright of his life.

This rare and debilitating condition can also fool doctors as evidenced by the example above.

Yes, that’s well documented.

However, even in that condition, the breathing and skin warmth would be obvious.

However, before embalming was introduced ca. 1850, it was known for persons believed dead to prove simply in a deep coma. That was why coffins with emergency bells, etc, were common around that time.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Sarcelle]

Yes, that’s well documented.

However, even in that condition, the breathing and skin warmth would be obvious.

However, before embalming was introduced ca. 1850, it was known for persons believed dead to prove simply in a deep coma. That was why coffins with emergency bells, etc, were common around that time.

ICXC NIKA

Interesting.