Soul does not need sustainer

[davidv]

Therefore you cannot break the chain of causality hence you are a machine.

False claim based on faulty logic.

 

[STT]

Thread is under: Apologetics > Philosophy

Apologetics is not specific to Catholic.

Isn’t Catholic theology based on logic?

 

[STT]

False claim based on faulty logic.

Are you only a part of chain of causality?

 

[Vico]

Isn’t Catholic theology based on logic?

In a higher and more perfect sense we call theology that science of God and Divine things which, objectively, is based on supernatural revelation, and subjectively, is viewed in the light of Christian faith. Theology thus broadens out into Christian doctrine (doctrina fidei) and embraces not only the particular doctrines of God’s existence, essence, and triune personality, but all the truths revealed by God.
Pohle, J. (1912). Dogmatic Theology. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. newadvent.org/cathen/14580a.htm

 

[Gorgias]

We could have access to God’s knowledge through prophecy

Prophecy doesn’t give knowledge of a particular personal action, so no paradox ensues.

or when we are in Heaven with Him

Once in heaven, we no longer act in time or in this world, so no paradox.

We can simply ask.

And God simply declines, so no paradox.

Lack of response is the sign of weakness.

No… “lack of response” is an indication that God does not give us visibility into the future. You could ask God to give you a pair of wings to fly, or gills to breathe underwater, but when He doesn’t do so, that’s not a sign of his weakness – it’s a sign that what you’ve asked for is contrary to your human nature.

I am afraid that your example is not a paradox at all.

That’s precisely my point, STT – just as my example is not a paradox, neither is yours. :newidea:

You either have the talent of Beckham or not. If you do then US is top team otherwise it is not. The first premise in fact not always true and depends on whether you are good enough or not.

Right: and you either know the future or you do not. If you do not know the future (which you, in fact, do not), then your claim is false. No paradox.

Glad we could settle that.

 

[STT]

Prophecy doesn’t give knowledge of a particular personal action, so no paradox ensues.

I meant we could ask to a prophet about foreknowledge.

Once in heaven, we no longer act in time or in this world, so no paradox.

Your concept of Heaven is incoherent. We are given body but we are supposed to live somewhere which doesn’t have any location and doesn’t have any extension and is timeless.

And God simply declines, so no paradox.

It doesn’t really matter if God declines. We know that the paradox exists.

No… “lack of response” is an indication that God does not give us visibility into the future. You could ask God to give you a pair of wings to fly, or gills to breathe underwater, but when He doesn’t do so, that’s not a sign of his weakness – it’s a sign that what you’ve asked for is contrary to your human nature.

Lack of response when God is challenged is sign of weakness.

That’s precisely my point, STT – just as my example is not a paradox, neither is yours. :newidea:

Mine definitely is a paradox. I already mentioned why yours is not a paradox.

Right: and you either know the future or you do not. If you do not know the future (which you, in fact, do not), then your claim is false. No paradox.

Glad we could settle that.

What?

 

[Gorgias]

I meant we could ask to a prophet about foreknowledge.

“Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.” – Leviticus 19:31

No, we cannot ask for fortune-tellers to tell us the future. God forbids it.

Your concept of Heaven is incoherent. We are given body but we are supposed to live somewhere which doesn’t have any location and doesn’t have any extension and is timeless.

When we die, where do our bodies go? Not to heaven, certainly; a simple glance at a cemetery will tell you that!

Catholics believe that, until the end of time, we live as ‘souls’, not ‘bodies’. Tell me: ‘where’ does a purely spiritual, non-physical, non-material soul exist? Can you point to a physical location? Of course not!

At the end of time, however, Catholics believe that God gives each person a glorified body, reunited with one’s soul. At that point, there is physical extension to the person.

It doesn’t really matter if God declines. We know that the paradox exists.

And, we’re back to my example! As you yourself admit, if the assertion is counter-factual, then the claim doesn’t hold. “If God declines”, then, there is no paradox.

Lack of response when God is challenged is sign of weakness.

Actually, no. Two thoughts:

First, Scripturally:

“You shall not put the LORD, your God, to the test” – Deuteronomy 6:16

“Jesus answered [the devil], “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord, your God, to the test.’”” – Matthew 4:7

So, “challenging God” is sinful, not salutory, and God is not required to respond positively to sinful requests.

Second, theologically:

Although you might believe that it is a sign of weakness for a human to fail to respond to a challenge (and I’d even take exception to that assertion), I would respond that you’re treating God as a human rather than as God. For God, it is not weakness to fail to respond to a human request… especially when the request is more vice than virtue.

Mine definitely is a paradox. I already mentioned why yours is not a paradox.

I know you did – for the same reason that yours isn’t a paradox, either. And therefore… :newidea: