Soul Mates

[Michal]

valiant Lucy:

I said no because I think that this idea comes from a very dangerous obsession that the modern world has with finding “the one.” I believe that the one is whoever you end up marrying.

The modern world has another dangerous obsession, finding a way to fill that void which God placed within them for Himself. Does that mean God doesn’t exist? The modern world does have a fixation for the ‘one’, this proves further that there is such a thing. The difference is their motives are corrupt, and the way they go about ‘finding’ that ‘one’ is also corrupt.

God has a plan for our lives, we don’t dictate what His will is for us by marrying who we choose.

He gives them the vocation of marriage to make them holy.

You can really play on people’s guilt by saying things like that. Holiness has to be happiness, because God is love.

 

[nablaise]

You can really play on people’s guilt by saying things like that. Holiness has to be happiness, because God is love.

I would replace ‘happiness’ with ‘Joy’ They are not the samething. Like our Lady said to St. Bernadette; “I can not promise you happyness in this world but in the next”. However we can be joyful even as we carry our crosses. The way to God is a way of the cross. It is not a happy way, but it can be joyfull.

 

[valient_Lucy]

You can really play on people’s guilt by saying things like that. Holiness has to be happiness, because God is love.

How exactly is this playing on people’s guilt? And where, may I ask, does Jesus promise to take away all of our problems and make us endlessly happy? Jesus promises that all men will hate us because of Him, he commands us to take up our cross and follow Him, and we are to rejoice in our sufferings.

Holiness DOES lead to joy, as a previous poster said, because we can only be joyful by obeying God and living in His friendship. But that does not mean that we will know happiness as the world knows it.

 

[valient_Lucy]

The modern world has another dangerous obsession, finding a way to fill that void which God placed within them for Himself. Does that mean God doesn’t exist? The modern world does have a fixation for the ‘one’, this proves further that there is such a thing. The difference is their motives are corrupt, and the way they go about ‘finding’ that ‘one’ is also corrupt.

God has a plan for our lives, we don’t dictate what His will is for us by marrying who we choose.

I disagree. I think the notion of “the one” doesn’t prove that there is such a thing, but rather that we are confusing the roles of our spouses and God. We are foolishly expecting our spouses to lead to our magical fulfillment, and to make us happy. No human being can ever do that all the time.

Furthermore, the obsession with the one is also a very western concept. In Korea, where I live right now, marriages used to be arranged, and in some cases, the family is still heavily involved in choosing a mate. While in Korea, I met a man from Southern India at Mass, who explained that in India, marriages are still frequently arranged, and that he is looking for his daughter’s husband. I don’t think that either of these cultures has a concept of meeting one person that was somehow “the one.” In most cases, they probably never even met the person they married before the wedding.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I would replace ‘happiness’ with ‘Joy’ They are not the samething. Like our Lady said to St. Bernadette; “I can not promise you happyness in this world but in the next”. However we can be joyful even as we carry our crosses. The way to God is a way of the cross. It is not a happy way, but it can be joyfull.

Thank you.

 

[Michal]

nablaise:

The way to God is a way of the cross. It is not a happy way, but it can be joyfull.

Good, good…i know we agree.
valient Lucy:

Holiness DOES lead to joy, as a previous poster said, because we can only be joyful by obeying God and living in His friendship. But that does not mean that we will know happiness as the world knows it.

Good, good, then why don’t you obey God and marry the one he wishes? Instead of doing it the human way and rely on family and friends…:coffeeread:

Don’t assume that because there is suffering, that you cannot enjoy it with your God’s chosen mate, and look forward to heaven together, instead of thinking you can get away with doing your own thing instead.

Thank you.

You agree on that word, yet seem to believe different things.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Good, good, then why don’t you obey God and marry the one he wishes? Instead of doing it the human way and rely on family and friends…:coffeeread:

Why don’t you believe that God use family and friends (as well as human reason) to bring us to the “right person?” Do you think that most married couples stumbled upon a burning bush saying, “Go marry Jane Doe?”

 

[nablaise]

I disagree. I think the notion of “the one” doesn’t prove that there is such a thing, but rather that we are confusing the roles of our spouses and God. We are foolishly expecting our spouses to lead to our magical fulfillment, and to make us happy. No human being can ever do that all the time.

Furthermore, the obsession with the one is also a very western concept. In Korea, where I live right now, marriages used to be arranged, and in some cases, the family is still heavily involved in choosing a mate. While in Korea, I met a man from Southern India at Mass, who explained that in India, marriages are still frequently arranged, and that he is looking for his daughter’s husband. I don’t think that either of these cultures has a concept of meeting one person that was somehow “the one.” In most cases, they probably never even met the person they married before the wedding.

Hi Lucy I think you are not wrong, but the ‘western’ one is very different from ‘the one’ in Tobi. God is Love. The a marriage is arranged fully out of love, the it is most likely that the two souls will be the ones meant for each other by God. They don’t have to be thinking constantly of ‘the one’. But from God point of view, just like the book of Tobi says. Those two people who meet out of true love it is because God meant it ‘before the creation of the world’

I think the most important think is to follow that waves of God’s love. Loving others according to God’s will. Seeking first the kingdom of God and everything will be added.

 

[valient_Lucy]

You agree on that word, yet seem to believe different things.

I think that I do agree with him. Being happy and being joyful are not the same things. Part of being a Christian (and Catholic) is learning to be joyful in the midst of suffering. Go reread his quote from Our Lady, “I do NOT promise you happiness in this world but in the next.”

 

[Michal]

valient Lucy:

Why don’t you believe that God use family and friends (as well as human reason) to bring us to the “right person?” Do you think that most married couples stumbled upon a burning bush saying, “Go marry Jane Doe?”

Is that the only way God speaks to us? through reason, family and friends? It is one of the ways, I strongly believe that, I think every Christian does.

Except that I don’t believe the final authoritative word lies to family and friends. They can help lead us, and help discern whether we are hearing God or not, but the final decision lies to the individual and what he or she hears God say (with family and friend’s view in account), by the aid of the Spirit.

I think that I do agree with him. Being happy and being joyful are not the same things. Part of being a Christian (and Catholic) is learning to be joyful in the midst of suffering. Go reread his quote from Our Lady, “I do NOT promise you happiness in this world but in the next.”

myself:

Don’t assume that because there is suffering, that you cannot enjoy it with your God’s chosen mate, and look forward to heaven together, instead of thinking you can get away with doing your own thing instead.

Part of the joy of this earth is experiencing God with our mate. It is wrong to overemphasize that people can fail you, and that you can only rely on God for happiness, that implies you are slightly above the rest, for you too are a created being, and are capable of failing and deceiving yourself .

Both parties in a couple are aware that the other is a human, so both strive to be loving and loyal to their mate, we have complete control over how we love someone, if there is one thing in life that we have complete control over, it is how we love. Should their be friction within the couple, they would individually resort to God for that time, because the security of their marriage lyes within God’s desire for them to be together (since their love for God ‘supercedes’ their spouse, by virtue of being a separate physical entity).

Their love for eachother is then perfected in heaven. This is how God wrote marriage, I believe.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Is that the only way God speaks to us? through reason, family and friends? It is one of the ways, I strongly believe that, I think every Christian does.

Except that I don’t believe the final authoritative word lies to family and friends. They can help lead us, and help discern whether we are hearing God or not, but the final decision lies to the individual and what he or she hears God say (with family and friend’s view in account), by the aid of the Spirit.

I don’t think I said, “Don’t pray or ask for God’s guidance for a spouse.” But I don’t believe in waiting for some sort of supernatural sign (ie a vision). If I did that, I would never have done anything in my life! God has never sent me an angel, or spoke to me in a cloud, nor would I expect Him to do that.

Part of the joy of this earth is experiencing God with our mate. It is wrong to overemphasize that people can fail you, and that you can only rely on God for happiness, that implies you are slightly above the rest, for you too are a created being, and are capable of failing and deceiving yourself .

I have no doubt that I have disappointed many people in my life, and I have hurt many people myself. I’m not proud of that. And anyone who expects me to clean is in for a very rude awakening, sadly. But I am working on that.

Both parties in a couple are aware that the other is a human, so both strive to be loving and loyal to their mate, we have complete control over how we love someone, if there is one thing in life that we have complete control over, it is how we love. Should their be friction within the couple, they would individually resort to God for that time, because the security of their marriage lyes within God’s desire for them to be together (since their love for God ‘supersedes’ their spouse, by virtue of being a separate physical entity).

Their love for each other is then perfected in heaven. This is how God wrote marriage, I believe.

I’m glad to hear that you believe that we can control how we love someone. One aspect of the myth of “the one” is that we can’t control how we love or who we love. I think that’s a blatant falsehood. We are also taught to think, “I’ll never have to work at anything when I meet ‘the one,’ or everything will be easy, and this person will make me happy forever.”

You say that, if a couple has difficulties in their marriage, they should resort to God, who will help them because He wants them to be together. But if a person has not married the person God intended him to marry, would God still help that person, or would he abandon him? Does God only help those marriages in which a person married someone who God chose, or does he help all marriages survive? Catholics believe that marriage is a Sacrament, and that, in marriage, a couple is given all of the graces they need to stay married. Do you believe that God withholds those graces from couples who marry someone other than the spouse he has chosen?
Furthermore, if a person feels, after marriage, that he has made a mistake, and not married “the one” should he divorce his spouse and try again?

 

[Michal]

If I did that, I would never have done anything in my life! God has never sent me an angel, or spoke to me in a cloud, nor would I expect Him to do that.

You learn to hear God in smaller things, God decides when you can hear larger things.

But I am working on that.

Yeah, and you’d work on that together with your mate aswell.

One aspect of the myth of “the one” is that we can’t control how we love or who we love. I think that’s a blatant falsehood.

We don’t control who we fall in love with, but once we meet them, we are in perfect control. These things don’t apply to the non-believer, I only used the mass desire as a proof.

Furthermore, if a person feels, after marriage, that he has made a mistake, and not married “the one” should he divorce his spouse and try again?

We’re veering off a bit, we should stick to the ideal model first (which is a realistic one). But I’d like to think that there is only either marriage or adultery, ‘marrying’ the wrong person might aswell be adultery, I think.
Anyway, when reading a couple Vatican documents, I noticed a distinction, the writer spoke of true marriage, as opposed to just marriage.

 

[valient_Lucy]

We don’t control who we fall in love with, but once we meet them, we are in perfect control. These things don’t apply to the non-believer, I only used the mass desire as a proof.

Where does this sudden ability to control how we love come from? Why are we “out of control” when we first meet them, but then we are in complete control?

We’re veering off a bit, we should stick to the ideal model first (which is a realistic one). But I’d like to think that there is only either marriage or adultery, ‘marrying’ the wrong person might as well be adultery, I think.

A lot of people have probably committed adultery then. So, have those people sinned? Are their marriages bad, or illegitimate? Are their marriages devoid of sacramental grace?

 

[Michal]

Where does this sudden ability to control how we love come from? Why are we “out of control” when we first meet them, but then we are in complete control?

Because God knows what we want better than we do. If we accept this, we want nothing other than what He wants, so we look and listen for Him. We deny our desires and feel compelled to ask God if any given desire is from Him. Eventually, amidst our ‘God consciousness’ we are brought to a point of sensitivity, God makes our mate cross our path, and we wonder how we could’ve lived without them. Not that we are oh so dreadfully incomplete without them…but in order for something to be given, something has to be missing…

A lot of people have probably committed adultery then. So, have those people sinned? Are their marriages bad, or illegitimate?

Not entirely sure, I still think about these things…but maybe thats the harsh reality

Are their marriages devoid of sacramental grace?

If Catholics really believe that you can choose anyone, and its as simple as them being a special Christian, and receive sacramental grace, then I guess we can take the easy way and throw everything we said out the window. I’m fine with that, if Catholics really think that, to me that means we can control God’s will.

 

[FrancesDaphne]

I think God creates people for us who can bring us to Himself. I was always raised to pray for that person, whomever God created who was destined to be my spouse, before I even met him. And for the grace to be able to recognize that person when I did meet them…quote]

This is very beautiful - to pray for someone before I meet him, the one whom i’ll commit to growing old with…

I voted “yes”, with the mindset that this special someone will receive my prayers,
and God willing,
when we meet,
our union can be of glory to God.

If that ‘special someone’ ends up being me & myself (i.e. calling to singlehood), then I’ll have benefited a great deal from all those answered prayers!

 

[FrancesDaphne]

food for thought… (Jeremiah 29: 11-13)

**For I know well the plans I have in mind for you, says the LORD, plans for your welfare, not for woe! plans to give you a future full of hope. **
When you call me, when you go to pray to me, I will listen to you.
When you look for me, you will find me. Yes, when you seek me with all your heart…

after a few ‘wrong’ choices (no regrets-- I’ve come to learn more abuot myself through them), I’m even more convinced to leave it in His Hands.

Better everlasting peace than eternal turmoil

 

[FrancesDaphne]

… the obsession with the one is also a very western concept. In Korea, where I live right now, marriages used to be arranged, and in some cases, the family is still heavily involved in choosing a mate. While in Korea, I met a man from Southern India at Mass, who explained that in India, marriages are still frequently arranged, and that he is looking for his daughter’s husband. I don’t think that either of these cultures has a concept of meeting one person that was somehow “the one.” In most cases, they probably never even met the person they married before the wedding.

My parish has an Indian couple very happy with their arranged marriage (both staunch Catholics),
while another indian friend of mine hates her husband to the core (also arranged marriage - and she vows never to do it to her children) - turns out her husband had a lot of character issues…

makes me realize how crucial it is to sanctify ourselves and be Holy - so that we can bring happiness to one another. Which is the case for the former, where both husband and wife seek only to grow in God’s love.

 

[catechumen08]

To make us grow in holiness and our love for Him. God doesn’t give people the vocation of marriage to make them happy; He gives them the vocation of marriage to make them holy. Now, one does not necessarily preclude the other, but if people enter marriage with a belief that the purpose of marriage is to make us happy and to be “in love with someone forever” then the marriage is doomed to fail, as soon as one person decides that the marriage doesn’t make him happy, or that he is not “in love” with his spouse and is “in love” with someone else.

There’s a story that St. Therese’ mother heard God say, when she met her husband, that He was the man who had been prepared for her. However, were they passionately in love? I think the fact that they remained celibate for almost a year after their marriage, and they only consummated it after both of their spiritual directors urged them to consider being open to children, indicates otherwise. But I don’t think that that fact necessarily means that they should never have married, simply because their “feelings” weren’t strong enough. After all, feelings change every minute.

Give a study to history and sociology - modern western thinking is that two people meet, fall in love and get married. Throughout most of history, and in many parts of the world/cultures today, marriage is arranged. Love for the spouse was something that came after marriage.

Joseph and Mary had an arranged marriage.

I’m sorry guys, but I still have to disagree. The vocation of marriage is to honor Him, but how can you really honor him in a loveless marriage? I’m pretty sure there’s a passage in the Bible that says husband and wife are supposed to love each other - sorry, not trying to sound condescending, just that I can’t remember the verse.

Anyway, when I marry, I want to be “in love”.

Just my $0.02.

 

[nablaise]

Of course we have to be in love.
But love is not just a feeling, it is a a decision. That’s why it was made a commandment. I think it is when we wait for the fantasy feeling of being in love that we may go wrong.

One person has a a signature that says something like “true love should love the unloveable or it is not a virtue at all”.

Here the ‘unloveable’ I think should mean whatever imperfection the other has, we can cover them with a ‘decision’ to love fully. God want us to decide to love.

 

[sacredcello]

Of course we have to be in love.
But love is not just a feeling, it is a a decision. That’s why it was made a commandment. I think it is when we wait for the fantasy feeling of being in love that we may go wrong.

One person has a a signature that says something like “true love should love the unloveable or it is not a virtue at all”.

Here the ‘unloveable’ I think should mean whatever imperfection the other has, we can cover them with a ‘decision’ to love fully. God want us to decide to love.

Yes, very nicely said.

Hopefully, our intended one (see the Book of Tobit) will be able to love the “unloveable” in us. That is my hope. If there is no Tobiah in my future, then I will pray for an honorable death, as Sarah did. She was the ultimate drama queen, but look what had happened to her in her life! And, God heard her cry.

It’s not that we cannot live without our intended one, but what sort of living is it? Yes, I know, we can accomplish many things.

Meanwhile, the novena to St. Raphael is my favorite. He is the patron saint of those seeking a chaste and holy marriage partner.