Soul or brain

[STT]

This is really difficult to me to believe that there is no life after death. Soul is believed to be animator of body but with the recent scientific progress in area of neurobiology it becomes more and more clearer as time passes that the animator of body is only brain. We know that any damage can affect our beings even our identity. People use medicine to cure many psychiatric maladies. The scientists can read our decision in advance and influence them (wiki). So everything to me seems physical, the result of neurobiological process. What is the use of neurobiological process in our brain otherwise? What is the use of soul?

 

[GLam8833]

“The first Adam became a living being,
the last Adam a life-giving Spirit” 1 Cor.
15:45, and elsewhere Paul talks about
there being a PHYSICAL body, but there
is like-wise a SPIRITUAL body. If this
physical body is destroyed, our earthly
“tent” we have a “building” from God to
house our souls!! 2 Cor. 5:1

 

[Beryllos]

It is miracle that the brain, a mere lump of flesh and blood, can perceive, think, and love. Praise God, the Creator, who can raise up children from dust and breath (Genesis 2:7), or from stones (Matthew 3:9).

For a scientist to believe in the eternal soul requires faith. Faith does not contradict science, and science does not make faith impossible, but it can be confusing. Let us pray for faith!

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

The soul is the life of the body and after death it ascends from the body. The brain, however, remains a part of the body and after death decays and ultimately turns to the dust from which it was created.

As the intestinal organs decay so too do the liver, kidneys, lungs and brain.

source: exploreforensics.co.uk/the-rate-of-decay-in-a-corpse.html

I have just completed reading a book about Shared Death Experience, in which many have shared the after-death experience with deceased persons. They have seen the dead person’s essence leave their bodies, have seen other beings or deceased relatives coming to get them, some have experienced/shared in their life reviews, have seen them begin a journey into another dimension, and some have actually traveled part-way up a “tunnel” with them and a few have even claimed to have glimpsed heaven as the deceased person entered.

If life were in the brain, we would just die…but we don’t…our soul/spirit/life force continues on.

 

[o_mlly]

This is really difficult to me to believe that there is no life after death. Soul is believed to be animator of body but with the recent scientific progress in area of neurobiology it becomes more and more clearer as time passes that the animator of body is only brain. …

The data show the opposite. Type “TK brain dead” into your search engine.

If the brain is the integrating principle of the body then the integrating effects would cease when the brain is dead. Our immunological system is a complex organized multi cellular activity that launches when foreign substances attack the body. TK, certified brain dead but maintained on a ventilator, lived 20 years without a functioning brain.
Our pathologic findings at autopsy confirmed that his brain had been destroyed by the events associated with the episode of H influenzae type b meningitis, whereas his body remained alive (brain death with living body) for an additional two decades, a duration of survival following brain death that far exceeds that of any other reports. hods.org/pdf/Long%20Survival%20Following%20Baterial%20Meningits-Associated%20Brain%20Destruction1.pdfDuring his 20 years TK contracted infections which his immune system handled quite well. The immune system’s many components, carried in peripheral blood, offer hundreds of cell types to combat infection and perhaps thousands of molecules that are monitored as known prior invaders. The immense heterogeneity and variability in immune cells and proteins could not function without an integrating, organizing and conducting principle.

Such integrating principle was at work in TK and it was not his brain.

 

[Richard_White]

It is miracle that the brain, a mere lump of flesh and blood, can perceive, think, and love. Praise God, the Creator, who can raise up children from dust and breath (Genesis 2:7), or from stones (Matthew 3:9).

For a scientist to believe in the eternal soul requires faith. Faith does not contradict science, and science does not make faith impossible, but it can be confusing. Let us pray for faith!

I would not say that the brain is merely a “lump of flesh and blood” at all. I, of course, fully believe in God’s creation of us all and His hand in everything. However, studying biology in college, I also have a basic understanding of the brain, and it is much more then flesh and blood! Filled with electrical synapses and much more, the brain controls everything that goes on in our bodies, and its pretty cool stuff, in my opinion! Even more glory to God for the intricacies of our bodies!

May God bless you all!

 

[STT]

It is miracle that the brain, a mere lump of flesh and blood, can perceive, think, and love. Praise God, the Creator, who can raise up children from dust and breath (Genesis 2:7), or from stones (Matthew 3:9).

For a scientist to believe in the eternal soul requires faith. Faith does not contradict science, and science does not make faith impossible, but it can be confusing. Let us pray for faith!

That is not true. The concept of soul is disappearing as science progress more. What functioning in our life is left that we can assign it to soul?

 

[STT]

The soul is the life of the body and after death it ascends from the body. The brain, however, remains a part of the body and after death decays and ultimately turns to the dust from which it was created.

The main question in this thread is what is functioning of soul? The brain apparently and completely is in charge of all functioning.

source: exploreforensics.co.uk/the-rate-of-decay-in-a-corpse.html

I have just completed reading a book about Shared Death Experience, in which many have shared the after-death experience with deceased persons. They have seen the dead person’s essence leave their bodies, have seen other beings or deceased relatives coming to get them, some have experienced/shared in their life reviews, have seen them begin a journey into another dimension, and some have actually traveled part-way up a “tunnel” with them and a few have even claimed to have glimpsed heaven as the deceased person entered.

If life were in the brain, we would just die…but we don’t…our soul/spirit/life force continues on.

I read about NDE a lot. I however cannot understand how such a thing is possible.

 

[STT]

The data show the opposite. Type “TK brain dead” into your search engine.

If the brain is the integrating principle of the body then the integrating effects would cease when the brain is dead. Our immunological system is a complex organized multi cellular activity that launches when foreign substances attack the body. TK, certified brain dead but maintained on a ventilator, lived 20 years without a functioning brain.
Our pathologic findings at autopsy confirmed that his brain had been destroyed by the events associated with the episode of H influenzae type b meningitis, whereas his body remained alive (brain death with living body) for an additional two decades, a duration of survival following brain death that far exceeds that of any other reports. hods.org/pdf/Long%20Survival%20Following%20Baterial%20Meningits-Associated%20Brain%20Destruction1.pdfDuring his 20 years TK contracted infections which his immune system handled quite well. The immune system’s many components, carried in peripheral blood, offer hundreds of cell types to combat infection and perhaps thousands of molecules that are monitored as known prior invaders. The immense heterogeneity and variability in immune cells and proteins could not function without an integrating, organizing and conducting principle.

Such integrating principle was at work in TK and it was not his brain.

What is the relation between brain and immune system? It seems that there is no significant relation between them.

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

The main question in this thread is what is functioning of soul? The brain apparently and completely is in charge of all functioning.

I read about NDE a lot. I however cannot understand how such a thing is possible.

The book I have read is not about NDE’s–near death experiences–it is about something much deeper and more permanent – it is about shared death experiences… A person actually dies and never comes back. But those around the death-bead experience what the newly deceased is experiencing at the same time the deceased is experiencing it–and both seem to be aware of each other’s presence.

The soul experiences the spiritual realm and can transfer those experiences to our understanding where the brain can try to reason things out. Our soul is spiritual. Our brain is physical. If we try to understand God with our minds alone, we will not comprehend, because God is a spirit and spiritual things are understood spiritually. (I Corinthians 2:14).
Our soul/spirit communes with God who is spirit. The function of the soul is to experience God. When our bodies die, our brains die also. But our spirits, if they have communed with God and are in communion with him, will go on to be with him.

 

[STT]

The book I have read is not about NDE’s–near death experiences–it is about something much deeper and more permanent – it is about shared death experiences… A person actually dies and never comes back. But those around the death-bead experience what the newly deceased is experiencing at the same time the deceased is experiencing it–and both seem to be aware of each other’s presence.

The soul experiences the spiritual realm and can transfer those experiences to our understanding where the brain can try to reason things out. Our soul is spiritual. Our brain is physical. If we try to understand God with our minds alone, we will not comprehend, because God is a spirit and spiritual things are understood spiritually. (I Corinthians 2:14).
Our soul/spirit communes with God who is spirit. The function of the soul is to experience God. When our bodies die, our brains die also. But our spirits, if they have communed with God and are in communion with him, will go on to be with him.

So what you are suggesting is that the soul is a link between physical and spiritual realm ? That seems reasonable since soul does not have any physical functioning, anything related to our daily life. The next question is that why we don’t always experience spiritual realm if soul is a link between physical and spiritual?

 

[Beryllos]

That is not true. The concept of soul is disappearing as science progress more. What functioning in our life is left that we can assign it to soul?

Sounds like a “God of the gaps” fallacy. Science may come up with physical explanations for every function you thought required a soul: perception, memory, consciousness, self-awareness, free will, love. When death comes, the chemical/biological basis for all these functions will be utterly destroyed. That is scary. Without faith, it is terrifying.

One may yet believe that our bodies and our brain functions, though essential to our humanity, are not the complete and whole human person. They are merely physical aspects of something greater, something beyond the limits of matter, energy, space, and time.

We are not souls imprisoned within bodies. We are not bodies that will become spirits after death. Here on earth, we are body and soul together. In the afterlife, we will be body and soul together.

How are we to understand this? Why did God create us like this? How will he grant us life after death? I don’t know. I can’t imagine. But it’s totally awesome. God created us, such as we are, body and soul. He lived among us, likewise body and soul. He suffered, died, and rose from the dead so that we too might live. To this day, his Spirit assists and guides us on our way. Give thanks and praise to God!

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

So what you are suggesting is that the soul is a link between physical and spiritual realm ? That seems reasonable since soul does not have any physical functioning, anything related to our daily life. The next question is that why we don’t always experience spiritual realm if soul is a link between physical and spiritual?

This is my opinion, but I have heard many others say the same thing.

We are SO BUSY with our lives here, that it is hard to just stop and focus on the spiritual.
We need to do this, however–we need to listen to our spiritual selves.

God has promised us that if we seek after him with our whole heart, we will find him.
And he has given us all this desire–this desire to find and fulfill our spiritual selves–which is communion with God himself.

He has provided the Way for us to reach him. That way is through his son, Jesus, whom he sent into the world to bridge the gap between God and Man.

In order to begin to experience our spirit/soul and to open ourselves to this spirit/soul/brain communion, we should ask God to become part of our lives and to reveal more and more of himself unto us. This will take time. But the more we seek God–through prayer, through the scripture, through communion with others who are like minded (church for example–or CAF is a great place too), the more the physical self can become aware of the spiritual.

 

[hasantas]

Death occur when soul get out of body. It is impossible to animate a body after death because the soul is out anymore. If the source of life were anything else so we should have been able to animate a body in any manner. The energy or any electric signal or heart or … Nothing is enough to animate body after death.

 

[Wesrock]

As a Thomist sees things, the human soul is just the form of a human being. It’s a principle of what it is to be a whole human, of WHAT we are, not some ethereal substance attached to it. It’s not some type of separate animator. There’s no conflict between neuroscience and hylemorphic dualism.

 

[Wesrock]

Frankly, you’re setting up a false dichotomy. Why must it be soul or brain when it’s perfectly consistent to say soul and brain. There is no ‘or’ needed.

 

[hasantas]

Did Lazarus and Jesus’ soul leave their bodies when they died? If yes, then they did indeed return to the body or the dead bodies became zombies?

Lazarus’ soul must be returned to body. Jesus indeed did not die. Zombie thought has no any account in faith and religion.

In the fact the eyes do not see and the ears do not hear etc. Soul can see without eyes and hear without ears. If soul get out of body all activities of body end soon.

Brain is a complex organ which run through some chemical and electric energy and signal. If body had not soul so the brain is respected to be like a robot and computer. A computer or a camera do not see or think or feel or be pleased or get worry or decide to start something etc. Most important subject is that they have no life. Computer just run by energy and softwares. Energy has no life and moral senses. Then there must be anothe source of these morals and it is soul.

God is “Hakim” which means that God act and run thrugh laws and by means. And creatures also run according to that laws. The body is a creature of God. So all parts of body include brain run according to that laws. And all laws come from eternal attributes of God. But means are not the real source of attributes. An illustration:

Sun shine and reflect on mirrors and plain surfaces. The sun seem through mirrors indeed there is no real sun in mirror but a reflection. Like that a life reflect on mirror of body but indeed non of part of body has life. Non ATP nor brain etc.

 

[STT]

Sounds like a “God of the gaps” fallacy. Science may come up with physical explanations for every function you thought required a soul: perception, memory, consciousness, self-awareness, free will, love. When death comes, the chemical/biological basis for all these functions will be utterly destroyed. That is scary. Without faith, it is terrifying.

We are not talking about death and what happen after that. That is another topic itself. The main question in this thread is what is the use of soul in daily our lives.

 

[STT]

Death occur when soul get out of body. It is impossible to animate a body after death because the soul is out anymore. If the source of life were anything else so we should have been able to animate a body in any manner. The energy or any electric signal or heart or … Nothing is enough to animate body after death.

We are not talking about death but functioning of soul in our daily lives.

 

[STT]

As a Thomist sees things, the human soul is just the form of a human being. It’s a principle of what it is to be a whole human, of WHAT we are, not some ethereal substance attached to it. It’s not some type of separate animator. There’s no conflict between neuroscience and hylemorphic dualism.

I have problem with hylemorphic dualism in which form are similar and matter are different. I can breath the air you breathed and the matter which was inside your body becomes part of mine. I believe that matter is similar and shape, configuration of matter, is different when it comes to different beings or things. Therefore no room is left for soul.