Soul sleep

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Richard_Kastner said:
Jesus did not explain many, in fact most of His parables. The only ones that come to mind that He did explain were the wheat and tares and the sower of the seed.(there may be more) The rest He left for people to figure out. I think that is why He used parables. Because He didn’t have to explain them. They were apparent from the story.
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Christ explained His parables to His disciples. They were the teachers He was preparing to lead His Church, and explained all things to them.

**Mar 4:34 And without parable he did not speak unto them; but apart, he explained all things to his disciples. **
Richard_Kastner said:
Ok, let’s take these one point at a time. Jesus used specific named people here for very specific reasons. You will notice that the rich man is not named. He is just the rich man. But you will notice in v. 19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: that he was clothed in purple and fine linen and that he faired sumtuously. The purple and fine linen is an allusion to royalty and the sumptuos fair to the word of God (more on this later) So, we can conclude from this first v. in the paable that the rich man was from the religious upper crust as it were probably of the Sanhedrin and probably a Pharasee. Now the rich, the upper crust of the Jews were considered blessed by God. After all that’s why their rich right? Now Abraham is considered the father of the Jews
Jn.8:13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
These vs. show that the Pharasees considered Abraham as there father and the bosom of Abraham was the place in heaven supposedly reserved for all the good little pharasees. After all they were God’s chosen people right? Well, Jesus enters the picture and shows them that the reason they were chosen was to proclaim His gospel to the Lasaruses of the world, to distribute the sumptuous fair as it were. Well, they failed miserably and as a result the poor man Lasarus would be taking their place in heaven. If this were to be taken literally do you really thik that all the dead souls would go into Abrahams bosom? Doesn’t sound very comfortable for the millions living there or for Abraham. Also, do you really think a drop of water on ones finger would slake the thirst of one supposedly in eternal flames? As for v.31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. This is a reference to the law and the prophets or the bible that Jesus used. I think that I have covered your concerns. Let’s see were this goes?
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Even if this were a parable, Christ tells it as if they are not in a state of ‘soul sleep’, that’s what we’re discussing. Your argument fails either way.
 
Christians are not seperated from Christ after death, at any point.
 
rpp said:
Wow! I did not notice that before. That is really seriously anti-Catholic. The “RCC Exposed” link at the top is chock full of vile lies about the Church.

If I am not mistaken, it is against forum rules to post links to blatantly anti-Catholic sights.

Thank you for catching that.
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Slightly off topic, but could someone clarify that rule?

Is it always against the forum rules to post anti-Catholic sites, or just promote them?

Can you post a link to an anti-Catholic site if you need help debunking, exposing, or even just flat-out making fun of it?
 
Jabronie said:
Slightly off topic, but could someone clarify that rule?

Is it always against the forum rules to post anti-Catholic sites, or just promote them?

Can you post a link to an anti-Catholic site if you need help debunking, exposing, or even just flat-out making fun of it?
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If you are posting a link to a blatantly anti-Catholic site (you know, the kind that spew nothing but hatred), and are promoting it, and it’s teachings, then I would say that is against the rules.

If you are posting it to debunk it, I might say something like…“I found a site run by XXXX”, instead of actually giving the link.

Just my thoughts.
 
jakasaki said:
How the heck does one get banned with having only 1 post… 🤷

Sorry folks, go back to your discussion…
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There may have been other posts of an objectionable nature that the moderators have removed.

Trust in the moderators judgements.
 
Well I always like to have this discussion with my pastor (mostly just for fun) but here are the scriptures that are used for soul sleeping:

Daniel 12:2
John 5:28-29
Ez. 37:12-14
Job 14:10
Job 14:14
Psalm 6:5
Psalm 49:15
John 3:13
Ecc. 9:5
Ecc. 12:7

I can post the text if there is a call for it.

Of course, the general response against SS is Jesus’ statement in John 11:14.
 
Xavierlives said:
Of course, the general response against SS is Jesus’ statement in John 11:14.
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?” - John 11:25-26
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Jn.11:13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

This certainly is not an argument against soul sleep.

As for Jn.11:25-26 Here’s 25&26 with the two vs. before

Jn.11:23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Jesus was talking to Martha about the resurrection when He would return and receive all those that believe in Him.

Jn. 14:John 14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

These vs. clearly show that we are not with Jesus after we die and when He is preparing a place for us. This is because we are dead and in the grave awaiting His return.

So this 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Happens after the resurrection.
 
Richard_Kastner said:
Jn.11:13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

This certainly is not an argument against soul sleep.
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Err… huh? Jesus said plainly, Lazarus is dead.
 
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