Souls in hell become demons who come back to torment us

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That’s not exactly the way it works, in my experience. I was nearly possessed by a demon when I was fifteen, so I remember what it feels like.

What you say is true, one cannot be possessed without surrendering the will. But it’s not like one makes the decision to surrender the will in a clear environment. It’s not a decision that the mind based upon reason and choice alone. It’s closer to being tortured into submission.

You know, a person being tortured for information always has a choice. They can keep resisting the torture, or they can surrender their own wills and do the torturer’s will. So there’s always a choice.

A demon can bring to bear on the mind many powerful tools to coerce the surrender of the mind to its will. For instance, a person on drugs is more susceptible to demonic possession. A person who is addicted to some sort of sin, such as sexual licentiousness, might be more vulnerable, as they feel pressure inside their mind to continue to behave in this way. I think that demons can cause mental problems, insanity and such. The Bible describes Jesus as curing demoniacs whose behavior was very much like insanity. Submitting one’s will to the devil is not a clean intellectual act- there is a very powerful compulsive element to it. A drug addict feeling compelled to take drugs is similar. They could resist, but their will is under such pressure that they don’t choose to resist.

My experience didn’t include any of those things. I had committed no sin- in fact, I was just beginning to pray that God would give me a deeper relationship with him, that I would come to know him as a reality rather than as an idea. My faith was non-existent at that point and I wanted God, so I began to pray for a relationship with him. A demon at that point attacked me, and I began to feel an enormous compulsive pressure in my mind to murder my family members or to commit suicide. I would be doing completely mundane things, or chatting with family members, and suddenly I was under incredible pressure to just kill them, and I had to strain with all of my willpower to resist. Many times it almost wasn’t enough. Once, when I was standing and talking with my Dad in the garden, the pressure was so great that I had to open my hand (which was clutching a hammer) and let the hammer fall to the floor where we stood, because otherwise I would have struck and killed my father. It was horrible, and I didn’t tell anyone about it because I was afraid that I was going insane, and would have to be sent to the asylum.

Then I met Christ. He answered my prayers and revealed himself to me, and told me that he would protect me. Then I told my parents about what I had been going through, and they realized immediately that it was a demon and prayed over me.

A few days later, the demon came back, though. I actually physically saw it, a lobster-like creature a foot long with many pincers and claws that appeared next to me in the night and then vanished into thin air.

I went out into the living room of my house and then sensed an incredibly powerful and twisted presence, full of hatred and the desire to murder. I banished it in the name of Jesus and it went, and it never returned after that.

Throughout my times enduring near-possession, my mind was under incredible pressure, incredibly strong. The Lord told me, when I got to know him, that if it hadn’t been for the support of his Holy Spirit, I wouldn’t have survived the attack.

My experiences tell me that free will is involved, but just as a person with a drug addiction feels massive psychological pressure to satisfy his urge, a person enduring possession trauma can feel incredible pressure to surrender his will to the demon. The demon doesn’t only ask for the person’s will- the demon demands it, tries to force compliance as a torturer might when trying to get someone to give information.

They are cruel. Free Will is involved, for one must choose to submit to the pressure. The drug addict always has a choice.

My suspicion is that the father cursed the daughter and the demons came and haunted the daughter so horribly and severely that she surrendered to their will and became their captive.

There can be pressure such as the kind I described, but there also is deception. A person can be deceived by the evil spirit and thus invaded. There are a lot of ways that these kinds of things can occur, but the enemy doesn’t just ask nicely if you will give your soul to the devil. He’ll rather say, “follow me- I’m God!”, or might try to deceive in another way and so gain control of another person’s will. Or the demon might actually try to force another person to submit to being possessed, as one did with me.
I’m sorry to hear of your trouble but am so thankful God delivered you from it.

Last week, Fr. Euteneuer was on Catholic Answers Live talking about exorcism. He was asked about serial killers and possession and he stated that he believed many of them were possessed like you described.

catholic.com/radio/calendar.php
 
That Satan can use the human damned is only logical, really. He uses those who will do evil here on Earth. Jesus called people on Earth children of the devil who always did the will of their master. Why would that change after death?

I really would like to know if the Church has any official teaching on this, though. 😦
I don’t think that there is any official teaching, but it does seem to be both logical and practical. It must hindge on the abilities of the soul once it is seperated from the body. It makes sense that part of the punishment of hell is to be enslaved to drag others with you- we see that in the living all of the time, and i can’t imagine that hatred of God and others like that would cease in the afterlife but only be compounded.
 
This certainly puts an interesting twist on one’s reading of ghost stories, I think. There are a lot of positive ghost stories as well as negative ones. It seems that Catholicism may be able to accept both kinds of accounts. Sure, some of them could be demons masquerading as loved ones. But it also is quite possible that “positive” ghost stories, where the ghost tries to help his or her relatives, might be explained as purified saints coming back to help and bless their loved ones. And negative ghost stories would be the damned returning to harm people they knew.

And some ghost stories are, like I mentioned, demonic masquerades. But Catholicism does look to me (if the Church has no official position rejecting the idea that the damned can interact with human affairs) like it has a much more logical and much broader world view on this matter than Protestantism does.

When I was a Protestant, I thought that all ghost stories had to be demons masquerading as ghosts. Now that I’m moving into Catholicism, I find that there seem to be far more reasonable explanations (and far more consistent with the views of people who recount their stories) for these experiences.

It’s very interesting and enjoyable, as I move into Catholicism, to find how many things just start fitting together so much better and making sense :).
 
beckycmarie
Malachi Martin’s book makes a good doorstop, and that’s about all.
Well you’re terribly misinformed.

In fact the exorcist priest for the Archdioceses of New York, was on Mother Angelica Live(this was before her stroke). A caller asked him about Malachi Martin’s book and the man himself. The exorcist priest said that Martin’s book, “Hostage to the Devil,” is completely accurate and the he himself, consulted with Malachi Martin on demonic possession. The book, is five documented accounts of demonic possession in the United States, which the Church has on record. Martin didn’t make stuff up.

Jim
 
Hell was indeed meant for the demons and not for humans, however some people do go there by their own choice. But they do not become demons. They remain human souls.

The story you’re referring to, Begone, Satan! by Father Carl Vogl does indeed detail the exorcism you described.

However, he makes an important point. Demons are liars and we can’t believe a word they say. They sometimes may be forced to speak the truth in exorcism, but who is to say the spirit claiming to be the woman’s father was not in fact just another lying demon? One of the spirits claimed to be the soul of Judas. Fr. Vogl points out the importance of not believing what demons say:

The bottom line is, humans cannot become demons, the same way humans do not become angels in Heaven. Is it possible for human souls to come back and torment people? I don’t know - but I don’t think we should take a demon’s word for it.
If you could get your hands on some stories written by exorcists where they “Command” the demons to identify themselves by name and description they are COMPELLED to tell the truth. The power of God COMPELS them…they have to obey because eventhough they are in Hell and do NOT serve God they are STILL subject to His commands.

If a demon says he is “Judas Iscariot” and is revealing himself he is obeying the COMMAND of the Almighty…the demon has to comply…it cannot play games when it’s commanded.

This is what I have read and have no reason to doubt.
 
beckycmarie

Some other points I noticed.
By the way, demons do not control a person’s free will.
Yes they do, thats what demonic possession is. In fact, the exorcist will try to get the person to take back control of their will, in order to resist the demon.
The reason demons can take possession of an innocent person is that demons have free will, also.
All souls have free will, even the demons. God never removes free will from us.
If a person calls down curses on another, they are asking for demonic intervention in another’s life, and demons are more than happy to oblige. It does not require a person’s consent to become the recipient of a curse.
This is false and was the result of witch burnings, i.e witches could call down Satan to take over another person. No other being can call down a demon to take over the will of another person. Your free will is your gift from God, that no one can take from you. Even God will not take away your free will.
By the way, Fr. Amorth, the exorcist of Rome, covers this in his books.
Then he’s either wrong or you misunderstood what he wrote.

No offense, but I don’t agree with what you posted here.

Jim
 
beckycmarie

Well you’re terribly misinformed.

In fact the exorcist priest for the Archdioceses of New York, was on Mother Angelica Live(this was before her stroke). A caller asked him about Malachi Martin’s book and the man himself. The exorcist priest said that Martin’s book, “Hostage to the Devil,” is completely accurate and the he himself, consulted with Malachi Martin on demonic possession. The book, is five documented accounts of demonic possession in the United States, which the Church has on record. Martin didn’t make stuff up.

Jim
Dear Jim,

Bro. Ignatius Mary answered a question about Malachi Martin over on his Spiritual Warfare Q&A.

Again I would stick with the works of people faithful to the Magisterium.
 
Dear Jim,

Bro. Ignatius Mary answered a question about Malachi Martin over on his Spiritual Warfare Q&A.

Again I would stick with the works of people faithful to the Magisterium.
Well Brother Ignatious Mary isn’t an exorcist priest nor is he an expert on the subject, as the exorcist priest of the Archdioceses of New York is, and who Mother Angelica had on. He would disagree with Brother Ignatious on his assesment of Malachi Martin and his book.

I believe the priest name is Rev. James J. LeBar, but without being able to see his photo, I’m not sure if he’s the same one who Mother Angelica had on her program.

Jim
 
beckycmarie

Some other points I noticed.

Yes they do, thats what demonic possession is. In fact, the exorcist will try to get the person to take back control of their will, in order to resist the demon.

All souls have free will, even the demons. God never removes free will from us.

This is false and was the result of witch burnings, i.e witches could call down Satan to take over another person. No other being can call down a demon to take over the will of another person. Your free will is your gift from God, that no one can take from you. Even God will not take away your free will.

Then he’s either wrong or you misunderstood what he wrote.

No offense, but I don’t agree with what you posted here.

Jim
Jim, have you read any of Fr. Amorth’s books? There is no question that he referred to multiple cases of possession resulting from witchcraft and people calling down curses on others.
 
Jim, have you read any of Fr. Amorth’s books? There is no question that he referred to multiple cases of possession resulting from witchcraft and people calling down curses on others.
It may be that demons have been called down to harass individuals, but for demonic possession to have taken place, the person would’ve had to surrendered their will to the demon.

Also, it this is from an account of the middle ages, well it would be suspect.

I’ve read enough about Satan and demons. I don’t care to give them any more of my time.

Jim
 
Well Brother Ignatious Mary isn’t an exorcist priest nor is he an expert on the subject, as the exorcist priest of the Archdioceses of New York is, and who Mother Angelica had on. He would disagree with Brother Ignatious on his assesment of Malachi Martin and his book.

I believe the priest name is Rev. James J. LeBar, but without being able to see his photo, I’m not sure if he’s the same one who Mother Angelica had on her program.

Jim
He’s not an exorcist, but I do believe he is well-qualified to comment on the topic since he has over 20 years experience in deliverance counseling and has conducted spiritual warfare workshops. See his bio here.
 
It may be that demons have been called down to harass individuals, but for demonic possession to have taken place, the person would’ve had to surrendered their will to the demon.

Also, it this is from an account of the middle ages, well it would be suspect.

I’ve read enough about Satan and demons. I don’t care to give them any more of my time.

Jim
Fr. Amorth is alive and well today, so no it’s not an account from the middle ages.
 
Fr. Amorth is alive and well today, so no it’s not an account from the middle ages.
Either way, I would have to disagree with him, if what you say about his writing is accurate. My guess is that you’ve misunderstood.

Jim
 
Either way, I would have to disagree with him, if what you say about his writing is accurate. My guess is that you’ve misunderstood.

Jim
I’m just wondering why you would disagree with what the exorcist of Rome has to say on the topic, but take schismatic, laicized priest Malachi Martin’s word as having more authority than the word of a man appointed by his bishop to be an exorcist.
 
One other point, Jim.

Your presumption that I misunderstood is incorrect. Here is a direct quote from page 115 one of Fr. Amorth’s books, An Exorcist: More Stories, regarding causes of possession:
Types of curses. My first book, An Exorcist Tells His Story, speaks at length about this subject. Here, I repeat that if a curse was used, we must know the particular details and whether it caused the demonic ailments. For instance, the most widely used curse is the malefice, or hex. We need to discover how it was made and its aim and, if necessary, find and burn any hidden, cursed objects. . .
A curse can also originate from such things as maledictions by close relatives, a habit of blaspheming, membership in the Freemasonry, spiritic or magic practices, and so on. Remedies include prayers, forgiveness, reparation, and intercession (also for the dead), and they vary according to each circumstance.
You can read the page here on Google Books.
 
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