Souls in Hell

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I’ve thought of this often, especially lately. Once in Hell, are these lost souls able to understand clearly the evil of their earthly wrongs, and are they filled with remorse? Remorse, of course, that is too late, and they will never be comforted. Or are they now even more hateful toward God and all that is good than they were in their life? I don’t know if this is known or not, or if it can vary with each person’s soul.
 
According to St. Thomas Aquinas (S.T. Supp. Q. 98, a2):

An obstinate will can never be inclined except to evil. Now men who are damned will be obstinate even as the demons . . .

The damned will wickedness, but shun punishment: and thus indirectly they repent of wickedness committed.

To wish one had not sinned on account of the shamefulness of vice is a good will: but this will not be in the wicked.

It will be possible for the damned to repent of their sins without turning their will away from sin, because in their sins they will shun, not what they heretofore desired, but something else, namely the punishment.

I also think of the “weeping and gnashing of teeth” Jesus talks about (Mt. 13:42), which would imply a sort of remorse, but again not true contrition for love of what is good, but only a sorrow at having to be punished.
 
Isn’t that what we call attrition, or imperfect contrition?
 
Isn’t that what we call attrition, or imperfect contrition?
It seems not, because attrition is a stirring of conscience but the wicked: “in their sins they will shun, not what they heretofore desired, but something else, namely the punishment.”

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1778 Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act that he is going to perform, is in the process of performing, or has already completed. …
1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52
 
So the souls in hell wouldn’t look back and say “oh I should’ve listen to my brother who tried to warn me from sin, or oh I shouldn’t have hurt so many people in my life, etc”?

I’ve always thought that after the second coming when every knee shall bow and every toung confess the truth, because the truth will be revealed to everyone. And all unrepented sinners will see that God has always been threre for them and that they have rejected him and his graces repeatedly without any remorse. “Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?” Mt 25:44 so wouldn’t they have some sort of contrition?
 
So the souls in hell wouldn’t look back and say “oh I should’ve listen to my brother who tried to warn me from sin, or oh I shouldn’t have hurt so many people in my life, etc”?
Yes, they will. In the BIble it mentions “the worm that dieth not”, which in interpreted by the Church as their conscience and is considered the worst suffering of Hell.
 
So the souls in hell wouldn’t look back and say “oh I should’ve listen to my brother who tried to warn me from sin, or oh I shouldn’t have hurt so many people in my life, etc”?

I’ve always thought that after the second coming when every knee shall bow and every tongue confess the truth, because the truth will be revealed to everyone. And all unrepented sinners will see that God has always been there for them and that they have rejected him and his graces repeatedly without any remorse. “Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?” Mt 25:44 so wouldn’t they have some sort of contrition?
The dogma of the Catholic Church that death finally fixes man’s free moral choice. Also that the chief suffering is eternal separation from God (no beatific vision). St. Thomas Aquinas presupposes that the damned have definite knowledge of the happiness that would have been theirs.

Ludwig Ott wrote in Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, p. 241:St. Augustine says: “One must not despair of even the greatest sinner as long as he lives here on earth” (Retract. I 19, 7,). The psychological basis for the possibility of conversion of even the most stubborn sinners lies in this that the will of a person on this earth can change, in contrast to the immutable will of the damned in hell.

In Summa Theologica, Supplement, Question 98 The will and intellect of the damned:**Article 8 – Whether the damned will ever think of God? **

I answer that, one may think of God in two ways.
  • First, in Himself and according to that which is proper to Him, namely that He is the fount of all goodness: and thus it is altogether impossible to think of Him without delight, so that the damned will by no means think of Him in this way.
  • Secondly, according to something accidental as it were to Him in His effects, such as His punishments, and so forth, and in this respect the thought of God can bring sorrow, so that in this way the damned will think of God.
Reply to Objection 1. The damned do not hate God except because He punishes and forbids what is agreeable to their evil will: and consequently they will think of Him only as punishing and forbidding.

newadvent.org/summa/5098.htm

The idea is that “Their only regret is not to have found therein the happiness they had looked to find; their misery goads them to despair. But they do not feel sorrow for the moral evil of their sins, which would be the beginning of repentance.”

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/novissimis.htm
 
I’ve thought of this often, especially lately. Once in Hell, are these lost souls able to understand clearly the evil of their earthly wrongs, and are they filled with remorse? Remorse, of course, that is too late, and they will never be comforted. Or are they now even more hateful toward God and all that is good than they were in their life? I don’t know if this is known or not, or if it can vary with each person’s soul.
The damned suffer intense remorse of conscience, as mentioned by St Faustina and others, in the sense that they regret they were caught and now stand accountable for their wickedness. This shouldn’t be confused with contrition. Hell does not contain - and never will contain - a soul that is contrite for what they have done and yet they nonetheless are lost. God has already infallibly deciphered their choice, and so hell contains nothing but hatred.

This is why when a soul encounters the Truth, they aren’t saved simply because they realize all at once that they were wrong. This is also why ‘proofs’ through miraculous signs aren’t necessarily useful except for those who were already receptive. Repentance is more than a meager intellectual realization. We see this in earthly life quite clearly: there are those who are sorry and there are those who were sorry that they were caught. This remorse can include an intense envy towards those in the Beatific Vision. St John Bosco, in his own experience, describes the damned as being able to see the elect in their contentment, and desiring to claw at them but being powerless to do so. Instead, they commit violence against each other, along with shouting blasphemies towards God. In eternity, the damned are in a perpetual state of continuing to sin, not merely being punished for past sin. This is different from purgatory, where souls are temporarily punished as a result of past sins, but they are not in a state of final impenitence, where they continue to sin for eternity and are subsequently punished for eternity. Souls in purgatory are “holy” because their will is aligned with God, and they are just waiting for Divine Justice to be satisfied for their earthly wrongs.
 
That sounds horrible and sad at the same time.

However what does the Beatific Vision mean? I never heard of it before.😊 I just checked the catholic Encyclopedia and it isn’t so clear about it. Does it mean Heaven itself?
 
I get it, so sorrow for sin is a good deed and therefore it does not exist in Hell. Never knew that though. Thank you all. :tiphat:
 
That sounds horrible and sad at the same time.

However what does the Beatific Vision mean? I never heard of it before.😊 I just checked the catholic Encyclopedia and it isn’t so clear about it. Does it mean Heaven itself?
The Beatific Vision is the intuitive knowledge of God.

Denzinger, Sources of Catholic DogmaBENEDICT XII 1334-1342

The Beatific Vision of God and the Last Days *

[From the edict “Benedictus Deus,” Jan. 29, 1336]

530 By this edict which will prevail forever, with apostolic authority we declare: that according to the common arrangement of God, souls of all the saints who departed from this world before the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ; also of the holy apostles, the martyrs, the confessors, virgins, and the other faithful who died after the holy baptism of Christ had been received by them, in whom nothing was to be purged, when they departed, nor will there be when they shall depart also in the future; or if then there was or there will be anything to be purged in these when after their death they have been purged; and the souls of children departing before the use of free will, reborn and baptized in that same baptism of Christ, when all have been baptized, immediately after their death and that aforesaid purgation in those who were in need of a purgation of this kind, even before the resumption of their bodies and the general judgment after the ascension of our Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ, into heaven, have been, are, and will be in heaven, in the kingdom of heaven and in celestial paradise with Christ, united in the company of the holy angels, and after the passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ have seen and see the divine essence by intuitive vision, and even face to face, with no mediating creature, serving in the capacity of an object seen, but divine essence immediately revealing itself plainly, clearly, and openly, to them, and seeing thus they enjoy the same divine essence, and also that from such vision and enjoyment their souls, which now have departed, are truly blessed and they have eternal life and rest; and also [the souls] of those who afterwards will depart, will see that same divine essence, and will enjoy it before the general judgment; and that such vision of the divine essence and its enjoyment makes void the acts of faith and hope in them, inasmuch as faith and hope are proper theological virtues; and that after there has begun or will be such intuitive and face-to-face vision and enjoyment in these, the same vision and enjoyment without any interruption [intermission] or departure of the aforesaid vision and enjoyment exist continuously and will continue even up to the last judgment and from then even unto eternity.

EUGENIUS IV 1431-1447

COUNCIL OF FLORENCE 1438-1445

Ecumenical XVII (Union with the Greeks, Armenians, Jacobites)

Decree for the Greeks *

[From the Bull “Laetentur coeli,” July 6, 1439]

693 De novissimis] * It has likewise defined, that, if those truly penitent have departed in the love of God, before they have made satisfaction by the worthy fruits of penance for sins of commission and omission, the souls of these are cleansed after death by purgatorial punishments; and so that they may be released from punishments of this kind, the suffrages of the living faithful are of advantage to them, namely, the sacrifices of Masses, prayers, and almsgiving, and other works of piety, which are customarily performed by the faithful for other faithful according to the institutions of the Church. And that the souls of those, who after the reception of baptism have incurred no stain of sin at all, and also those, who after the contraction of the stain of sin whether in their bodies, or when released from the same bodies, as we have said before, are purged, are immediately received into heaven, and see clearly the one and triune God Himself just as He is, yet according to the diversity of merits, one more perfectly than another. Moreover, the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds [see n.464].
 
In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16), the rich man in hell asks Father Abraham,“then let me come back and warn my brothers, that they may repent and not suffer my fate.” So, here we have an act of love on the part of a damned soul in hell!
And, as the book of John says: “God is Love.” And I’ll throw out a little Latin legalese here: "Res ipse loquitor " (the thing speaks for itself). This is why I think Origen had it right and Aquinas, for all his brilliance, had it wrong and couldn’t really grasp God’s love.

Comments? Have at me.
 
In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16), the rich man in hell asks Father Abraham,“then let me come back and warn my brothers, that they may repent and not suffer my fate.” So, here we have an act of love on the part of a damned soul in hell!
And, as the book of John says: “God is Love.” And I’ll throw out a little Latin legalese here: "Res ipse loquitor " (the thing speaks for itself). This is why I think Origen had it right and Aquinas, for all his brilliance, had it wrong and couldn’t really grasp God’s love.

Comments? Have at me.
Those damned cannot merit, per Vatican I, Chapter 3, On Faith:Since, then, without faith it is impossible to please God 21 and reach the fellowship of his sons and daughters, it follows that no one can ever achieve justification without it, neither can anyone attain eternal life unless he or she perseveres in it to the end.

21 Heb 11, 6.

intratext.com/IXT/ENG0063/_P7.HTM#DM

Also St. Cyprian (Bishop of Carthage, 249-258 A.D.) writes in Ad Demetrianum 25:If one is departed from thence, then there is no longer any possibility of penance, and expiation has no effect. It is here below that life is either lost or won.
 
“Faith, hope and love,” and the greatest of these is love." i.e., greater than faith, greater than love.
 
“Faith, hope and love,” and the greatest of these is love." i.e., greater than faith, greater than love.
We do have a dogma of faith that it is *eternal *damnation for those that are condemned to Hell.

Dogma from Caput Firmiter, Fourth Lateran Council (1215 A.D.):

Denzinger 429
LATERAN COUNCIL IV 1215

Ecumenical XII (against the Albigensians, Joachim, Waldensians etc.

The Trinity, Sacraments, Canonical Mission, etc.*

Chap. 1. The Catholic Faith

(Definition directed against the Albigensians and other heretics]

429 And finally the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ, incarnate by the whole Trinity in common, conceived of Mary ever Virgin with the Holy Spirit cooperating, made true man, formed of a rational soul and human flesh, one Person in two natures, clearly pointed out the way of life. And although He according to divinity is immortal and impassible, the very same according to humanity was made passible and mortal, who, for the salvation of the human race, having suffered on the wood of the Cross and died, descended into hell, arose from the dead and ascended into heaven. But He descended in soul, and He arose in the flesh, and He ascended equally in both, to come at the end of time, to judge the living and the dead, and to render to each according to his works, to the wicked as well as to the elect, all of whom will rise with their bodies which they now bear, that they may receive according to their works, whether these works have been good or evil, the latter everlasting punishment with the devil, and the former everlasting glory with Christ.
patristica.net/denzinger/#n429
St. Augustine: “… faith believes, hope and love pray. But without faith the two last cannot exist, and therefore we may say that faith also prays.”
The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, by St. Augustine:Chapter 7. The Creed and the Lord’s Prayer Demand the Exercise of Faith, Hope, and Love.

For you have the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer. What can be briefer to hear or to read? What easier to commit to memory? When, as the result of sin, the human race was groaning under a heavy load of misery, and was in urgent need of the divine compassion, one of the prophets, anticipating the time of God’s grace, declared:
“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered.”
Hence the Lord’s Prayer. But the apostle, when, for the purpose of commending this very grace, he had quoted this prophetic testimony, immediately added: “How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?”
Hence the Creed. In these two you have those three graces exemplified: faith believes, hope and love pray. But without faith the two last cannot exist, and therefore we may say that faith also prays. Whence it is written:“How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?”
newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm

 
The Beatific Vision is the intuitive knowledge of God.

Denzinger, Sources of Catholic DogmaBENEDICT XII 1334-1342

The Beatific Vision of God and the Last Days *

[From the edict “Benedictus Deus,” Jan. 29, 1336]

530 By this edict which will prevail forever, with apostolic authority we declare: that according to the common arrangement of God, souls of all the saints who departed from this world before the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ; also of the holy apostles, the martyrs, the confessors, virgins, and the other faithful who died after the holy baptism of Christ had been received by them, in whom nothing was to be purged, when they departed, nor will there be when they shall depart also in the future; or if then there was or there will be anything to be purged in these when after their death they have been purged; and the souls of children departing before the use of free will, reborn and baptized in that same baptism of Christ, when all have been baptized, immediately after their death and that aforesaid purgation in those who were in need of a purgation of this kind, even before the resumption of their bodies and the general judgment after the ascension of our Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ, into heaven, have been, are, and will be in heaven, in the kingdom of heaven and in celestial paradise with Christ, united in the company of the holy angels, and after the passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ have seen and see the divine essence by intuitive vision, and even face to face, with no mediating creature, serving in the capacity of an object seen, but divine essence immediately revealing itself plainly, clearly, and openly, to them, and seeing thus they enjoy the same divine essence, and also that from such vision and enjoyment their souls, which now have departed, are truly blessed and they have eternal life and rest; and also [the souls] of those who afterwards will depart, will see that same divine essence, and will enjoy it before the general judgment; and that such vision of the divine essence and its enjoyment makes void the acts of faith and hope in them, inasmuch as faith and hope are proper theological virtues; and that after there has begun or will be such intuitive and face-to-face vision and enjoyment in these, the same vision and enjoyment without any interruption [intermission] or departure of the aforesaid vision and enjoyment exist continuously and will continue even up to the last judgment and from then even unto eternity.

EUGENIUS IV 1431-1447

COUNCIL OF FLORENCE 1438-1445

Ecumenical XVII (Union with the Greeks, Armenians, Jacobites)

Decree for the Greeks *

[From the Bull “Laetentur coeli,” July 6, 1439]

693 De novissimis] * It has likewise defined, that, if those truly penitent have departed in the love of God, before they have made satisfaction by the worthy fruits of penance for sins of commission and omission, the souls of these are cleansed after death by purgatorial punishments; and so that they may be released from punishments of this kind, the suffrages of the living faithful are of advantage to them, namely, the sacrifices of Masses, prayers, and almsgiving, and other works of piety, which are customarily performed by the faithful for other faithful according to the institutions of the Church. And that the souls of those, who after the reception of baptism have incurred no stain of sin at all, and also those, who after the contraction of the stain of sin whether in their bodies, or when released from the same bodies, as we have said before, are purged, are immediately received into heaven, and see clearly the one and triune God Himself just as He is, yet according to the diversity of merits, one more perfectly than another. Moreover, the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds [see n.464].
So it does mean the poeple in Heaven!
and see clearly the one and triune God Himself just as He is, yet according to the diversity of merits, one more perfectly than another.
So there like levels in heaven? Poeple go to each level according to their merits?
 
In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16), the rich man in hell asks Father Abraham,“then let me come back and warn my brothers, that they may repent and not suffer my fate.” So, here we have an act of love on the part of a damned soul in hell!
And, as the book of John says: “God is Love.” And I’ll throw out a little Latin legalese here: "Res ipse loquitor " (the thing speaks for itself). This is why I think Origen had it right and Aquinas, for all his brilliance, had it wrong and couldn’t really grasp God’s love.

Comments? Have at me.
In the book, The Dialogue of St. Catherine of Siena where God the Father speaks to this saint, he says concerning Lazarus and the rich man asking him to go to his brothers, “He did it because he was the eldest, and had nourished them up in the same miseries in which he had lived, so that he was the cause of their damnation, and he saw pain increased to himself, on account of their damnation when they should arrive in torment together with him, to be gnawed forever by hatred, because in hatred they finished their lives.”

Hope that helps.
 
So it does mean the poeple in Heaven!

So there like levels in heaven? Poeple go to each level according to their merits?
The Catechism of Pope St. Pius X
Q6. Shall the bliss of paradise and the miseries of hell be the same for all men?
A. The bliss of heaven in the case of the blessed, and the miseries of hell in the case of the damned, will be the same in substance and in eternal duration; but in measure, or degree, they will be greater or less according to the extent of each one’s merits or demerits.
 
In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16), the rich man in hell asks Father Abraham,“then let me come back and warn my brothers, that they may repent and not suffer my fate.” So, here we have an act of love on the part of a damned soul in hell!
And, as the book of John says: “God is Love.” And I’ll throw out a little Latin legalese here: "Res ipse loquitor " (the thing speaks for itself). This is why I think Origen had it right and Aquinas, for all his brilliance, had it wrong and couldn’t really grasp God’s love.

Comments? Have at me.
It’s Catholic Dogma that Hell is eternal. To say otherwise makes one a heretic. Origen was a heretic in this regard.
 
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