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bsf
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Where is this something missing, in the “sour faced” individuals you are referencing, or in you? Do you understand empathy and emotional IQ?
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robwar
Guest
St. Theresa of Avila said once, save me from sour faced Catholics. ( or something like that, it’s a paraphrase) I understand your point of the thread. I think there is among Catholics a false notion of reverence and piety where looking serious or stern is somehow more reverent and Protestants like yourself (myself included) are often mystified at the facial expressions and attitudes of Catholics displaced at Mass. Holy Father recently spoke about this, that Catholics should display more joy and happiness and not look like a bunch of sourpusses. That doesn’t mean one should put on a show of false joy put having common kindness, a smile and general friendly face is sadly needed in many Churches. A smile doesn’t mean that there is a lack of reverence or holiness.
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marywarfield
Guest
To compare how Protestants behave after theirHow can people go to church and take communion week after week and leave church as sour faced and rude as when they entered? No light shines from them. If anything, one would think them atheist!
Coming from a protestant background, I am just not used to this and its a bit upsetting at times. I love the Catholic teachings and faith and have encountered far more sweet people. But have also seen and encountered far too many of these sour faced - downright rude - people who one would never even know to be a Christian from their actions and words.
I never encountered this in the Protestant church. Maybe its because Protestants read the bible more? I’m just trying to understand it. The protestants I knew, overall, just exuded joy and light. And yes, some Catholics do too. But sadly far too few.
( Or maybe its the Protestant music just puts them in a better mood.)
memorial service in which Jesus is fondly remembered
with how Catholics behave after literally re-attending the Last
Supper is a bit much.
The Eucharistic celebration means we are literal
participants AT the Last Supper, Christ is currently
present as well and literally giving us His true
actual flesh and actual Blood along with His
actual Divinity. In other words we are literally reliving
what happened two thousand years ago. Really.
So how do YOU believe the disciples behaved after
the Last Supper? Do you think while Christ went
off to pray they ran around smiling with joy and
attending bingo? Really?
We present Catholics are in that limbo of time so
to speak in between the Last Supper, the Crucifixion, and
prior to the Resurrection. We know the Resurrection
will occur in the Second Coming. Christ showed Himself
to the disciples thusly over forty days and nights.
Now those whom Christ manifests Himself within
the Eucharistic celebration as He manifested Himself
to the disciples after His Resurrection are not interested
in partying with you- they are talking to Him while
He is still with them. Just as the disciples did not
say hi lord good to see you back again but I have
to run off and party with my buds at the mall, we don’t
say that either. We try to remain with Him as long as possible.
In other words everything else can wait EXCEPT Heaven
at the moment thank you.
For a better understanding of why Catholics don’t
behave like Protestants here is a good link to
the difference in the services themselves;
marys-touch.com/truth/perceptions.htm
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marywarfield
Guest
Understand this is NOT an approved miracle. I post
this only to show the extreme differences in views.
Now here is a Catholic Answers link to actual
approved Eucharistic miracles. Point again being that
it is IMPOSSIBLE to compare a Protestant service
to a Catholic Mass therefore impossible to expect
same behaviors.
catholic.com/magazine/articles/eucharistic-miracles-evidence-of-the-real-presence
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Rae8
Guest
I had forgotten that but yes, I remember now the Pope saying this. What better authority for it? (Not to mention St Theresa of Avila who I so love and identify with. )
You got my point and spoke it well. I was not talking of any false or forced shows of joy like someone else in this thread seemed overly focused upon. Nor was I speaking of only *after *communion as another poster focused on. But more along the lines of always letting His light shine through and not covering it under a bushel. (Mathew 5:15) If you don’t feel it then I understand its not going happen but a small smile returned back to someone who makes an effort to reach out can’t really be that hard. That is not being false or hypocritical, its being loving and charitable.
There were two consecutive instances of some pretty rude behavior last week that prompted me to need to get this off my chest as they say. I knew I would be attacked for posting this.
Thank you!
May God Bless you all.
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phil19034
Guest
I think what you are describing comes for the following factors:How can people go to church and take communion week after week and leave church as sour faced and rude as when they entered? No light shines from them. If anything, one would think them atheist!
Coming from a protestant background, I am just not used to this and its a bit upsetting at times. I love the Catholic teachings and faith and have encountered far more sweet people. But have also seen and encountered far too many of these sour faced - downright rude - people who one would never even know to be a Christian from their actions and words.
I never encountered this in the Protestant church. Maybe its because Protestants read the bible more? I’m just trying to understand it. The protestants I knew, overall, just exuded joy and light. And yes, some Catholics do too. But sadly far too few.
( Or maybe its the Protestant music just puts them in a better mood.
- the Catholic Church is a hosptial for sinners.
- Protestant Churches are usually filled with people of similar backgrounds, preferences of worship, social/political beliefs, etc. If a protestant does not like the church he/she is attending, they simply go to another one. So the communities become kind of homogenious because of that.
- Catholics historicly attend the parish they live in, regardless of whether they like the music, etc. The notion of parish shopping or parish hopping is very new. Therefore, you might have older members of the parish who do not like some changes in the parish but will not attend another because canon law states that you should attend your own.
- Catholic parishes are much larger than most protestant congergations. So there could be many people you do not know at Church.
- Some Catholics (due to their ethnic upbringing) might be a little suspesious of “ethnic outsiders” due to how the Irish, Italians, Polish, etc stuck to themselves and grew up in Irish/Italian/Polish ghettos. For example: my father was born in a small coal mining town (in the mountains of PA) that was filled with immagrents. The small town had one or two Eastern Catholic Churches and three Roman Catholic Chruches (one for the Italians, one for the Irish and one for the Polish). A couple years ago, the three Latin parishes merged into one and everyone was up-in-arms because they still have ethnic predjudices.
- HOWEVER, THE BIGGEST REASON is what I listed first. “The Catholic Church is a hosptial of sinners not a museum of Saints” as Tim Staples likes to say. There are many people who are broken who come to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is really the only Church that welcomes everyone, regardless of their situation. Therefore, we have some very broken & hurting people attending Mass. In protestant churches, often, if you do not “fit the mold” you will be “weeded out.” Perhaps you will weed yourself out or you will be pressured by to leave by the pastor or people. Either way, the homogeniousness of protestant churches causes people to leave. When protestants do not like their church or do not “feel at home” they leave and go somewhere else. Where as Catholics (who wish their parish was homogenious, or don’t like the music, or don’t like the OF, etc.) still stick around.
God Bless
Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy.
Amen.
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CB_Catholic
Guest
I just have to say this: you cannot generalize like this. I’ve been around Protestants a lot, and 1/2 of my family is Protestant. Well, talk about sour-faced–no drinking, no dancing, no movies, no TV, everything scrutinized and judged. Most of them did not exude joy and light, the family for the most part was highly dysfunctional and while it is not as bad as it used to be, there are still many Protestants of this mindset. Now I go to a Protestant bible Study and thankfully, the people there are friendly and caring and do have the Joy of the Lord and are not critical, but my Catholic parish is not full of sour-faced people, although there are some. I think you have jumped to a wrong conclusion due to lack of exposure.How can people go to church and take communion week after week and leave church as sour faced and rude as when they entered? No light shines from them. If anything, one would think them atheist!
Coming from a protestant background, I am just not used to this and its a bit upsetting at times. I love the Catholic teachings and faith and have encountered far more sweet people. But have also seen and encountered far too many of these sour faced - downright rude - people who one would never even know to be a Christian from their actions and words.
I never encountered this in the Protestant church. Maybe its because Protestants read the bible more? I’m just trying to understand it. The protestants I knew, overall, just exuded joy and light. And yes, some Catholics do too. But sadly far too few.
( Or maybe its the Protestant music just puts them in a better mood.
In one well-known denomination that my BIL joined, they gladly accepted his substantial tithe (he is fairly wealthy), but refused him membership because he smoked. The parking lot was littered with cigarette butts, though–he just didn’t hide it.
It all depends on the parish or church.
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Ohana
Guest
Hmm, didn’t Proverbs address this somewhere?
I have been a little off -put recently by being told that Christians are always joyful. I am not, I thought. The fact is, I am not cheerful all the time. Why I have been so overcome after Communion that I cry! Joy is something different than Cheerful I think. Joy is an interior sense of being closer to what God wants us to be, and therefore in continuing communion with him. Cheerfulness is an outward expression of Joy sometimes, but Joy can also be present in shared sorrow, in anger at injustice, and in other ways. God built us with feelings which are really transient and are really only information. I’ll trade contentment for happiness at any time. Contentment and Joy last, happiness is gone the moment we no longer have something to be happy about. They are authentic; false cheer is not.
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Rae8
Guest
Oh I know. There are tons of protestant churches with various ideas about what one should and should not do. And I will not speak about that. I was more talking about my own experiences in Charismatic churches that I attended.
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Rae8
Guest
Very good points here. Thank you. It reminds me of Mother Theresa’s poem:
Code:
People are often unreasonable, illogical and self centered;
Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.It was never between you and them anyway.***
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clem456
Guest
Joy is a fruit of the spirit.How can people go to church and take communion week after week and leave church as sour faced and rude as when they entered? No light shines from them. If anything, one would think them atheist!
Coming from a protestant background, I am just not used to this and its a bit upsetting at times. I love the Catholic teachings and faith and have encountered far more sweet people. But have also seen and encountered far too many of these sour faced - downright rude - people who one would never even know to be a Christian from their actions and words.
I never encountered this in the Protestant church. Maybe its because Protestants read the bible more? I’m just trying to understand it. The protestants I knew, overall, just exuded joy and light. And yes, some Catholics do too. But sadly far too few.
( Or maybe its the Protestant music just puts them in a better mood.
Why are some of us not joyful? That’s a good question. Joy is not always visible, but rudeness is not excusable.
I would just observe that in regards to your experience, (paraphrasing John of the Cross speaking about love):
If you find no joy, put joy in, and you will draw joy out.
Hopefully that paraphrase works in your situation.
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RPRPsych
Guest
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Rae8
Guest
Good points. I will see if I can’t do that with this situation.
Yes! Joy is a fruit of the spirit as you say! Joy, love and peace like one cannot find in this world.
Someone mentioned crying after mass.
I had the spirit move me that way once a couple of months back. It was after communion and after I said my usual prayers. As I watched the priest clean the cups I was suddenly overcome with tears. I began weeping and couldn’t stop. I managed not to make too much noise but was helpless to stop. I had never experienced anything like that in the past in the Charismatic churches I had been to. The Holy Spirit moves in mysterious ways.
God Bless!
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Rae8
Guest
You hit the nail on the head as I said before. Found the Pope’s quote:
VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Using a phrase that translates literally as “the face of a pickled pepper,” Pope Francis said that when Christians have more of a sourpuss than a face that communicates the joy of being loved by God, they harm the witness of the church.
“The Christian is a man or woman of joy,” the pope said May 10, giving a homily during his morning Mass in the chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae.
While happiness is a good thing, the pope said, it’s not the same as the profound joy that comes from “the certainty that Jesus is with us and with the Father.”
If one tries to be happy all the time, he said, that happiness ends up “transforming itself into lightness, superficiality and leads to a state of lacking Christian wisdom; it can make us fools, dupes, no?”
“Joy is something else. Joy is a gift from the Lord. It fills us from the inside,” the pope said at the Mass attended by staff from Vatican Radio and concelebrated by Venezuelan Archbishop Baltazar Enrique Porras Cardozo of Merida and Abbot Notker Wolf, the Benedictine abbot primate.
The joy the Lord gives cannot be “bottled up so we can keep it with us,” he said. “If we want this joy just for ourselves, in the end it will make us sick and our hearts will shrivel up and our faces will not transmit that great joy, but nostalgia, that melancholy that isn’t healthy.”
Joy naturally leads to generosity, he said.
Pope Francis said joy is a “pilgrim virtue,” one that moves Christians to journey out into the world preaching the Gospel and proclaiming Christ.
Joy, he said, “is one of the virtues of the great,” of those who don’t allow themselves to get caught up in silly little annoyances or in “little things inside the community of the church; they always look to the horizon.”
“The Christian sings with joy and walks carrying this joy,” the pope said.
From: catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1302082.htm
May God Bless our Pope and keep him safe.
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Usige
Guest
You must never have been in a Presbyterian Church before then. I was raised Presbyterian and as a rule most of the people in the churches we went to might be considered “dour” for lack of a better term.
It might be a matter of the types of protestants you hung out with. Certain types of churches likely attract different personalities. This is especially true when you start getting into nondenominational churches where the experience is raised up as a primary selling point.
Another point may be in your perception of a person being rude. If you mean you say hello and they just nod and don’t hang out to talk to you then that’s not being rude. I am an introvert so hanging out and talking to people I don’t know is not on my radar. If you hang me up just to talk without a specific reason I might consider it rude that you took time away from my family for idle chit chat.
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bsf
Guest
I should have inquired with a genuine intent to better understand what is bothering you instead of asking questions critical of you. I apologize. Sorry you feel you were mistreated at church.
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Rae8
Guest
My apologies to any atheists who I may have offended.
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Kal2012
Guest
Sorry if I’m repeating what someone else said. I haven’t read through all the posts.
However, as a former protestant myself, I have to continually remind myself that most Catholics grew up in a different culture than I did and have different expectations about church. Catholics don’t place the same value on living a spirit-fulled life as some Protestant groups do.
In the end, it was this idea of being “spirit-filled” that made me want to leave Protestantism. After all the emotional manipulation is stripped away from Protestantism, all that’s left is bad, inaccurate theology. (The music, Jesus as a your self-help guru, the altar calls, the guilt trips…etc)
It’s one thing for someone to believe they are ‘spirit-filled’, but it’s another for people to see the fruits of another person’s Christian life. If you only see a person once a week for an hour at Mass, then are you really seeing everything that’s going on in their lives?
Just because someone is joyful at church doesn’t mean that they are when they get home. And just because someone’s grumpy at church and is “rude” that doesn’t mean that they act that way to everyone in their lives.
Being ‘spirit-filled’ isn’t the end all be all of the Christian life. The whole point of the Christian life is find salvation in Jesus. Nobody guarantees that you’ll be joy filled every minute of the day.
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7armyrugrats
Guest
I have noticed that there are parishes that are extremely friendly and joyful. Unfortunately my experience has been the opposite happens more often. It seems so many parishes are very unwelcoming and run by cliques that remind me of middle school. It is disappointing to me because I love being Catholic, but I completely understand that often people are turned off by the attitudes of the Catholics they meet. We have a huge evangelization problem. Our general attitude and demeanor needs to be evaluated. It comes across as demeaning, disrespectful, judgmental, uncaring and holier than thou to a great deal of people. The parish we currently attend is terrific, and I’m dreading to leave it soon because my experience with other parishes across the country have left much to be desired. I will not stop attending Mass because I go to be with Jesus, not the other people, but is a smile or a wave really so hard? Is it really necessary to be so impatient that you cut people off in the parking lot? We really need to take a good look at ourselves and how our behavior affects people around us. It is difficult to get a person to believe and accept that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist and lives in our hearts when we shove our way out of Mass, cut people off on our way out of the parking lot, and then stomp around the grocery store before we go home.
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