Source of our desires?

[houston1]

CAF members,

What is the source of our desires? Are our desires from God, the devil, or it depends? If it is dependent on certain things, how does one discern the source?

Here is a list of desires so that you will know what I mean by this. In each of these cases, assume that no moral problems exist. These are just examples.

• desire for marriage verses religious life
• desire to be an engineer, teacher or accountant
• attractions for certain places and people
• desire to avoid certain places or people
• desire to do volunteer work in one thing or another

My impression is that if a person seeks God with their whole mind, heart, and strength, then whatever desires result within the person are from God even if the person cannot understand the “why” behind his or her desire. Also assume that the person in question has no ability to control his or her desire (i.e., the desire is always present on his or her mind no matter the effort taken to rid himself or herself of the desire through prayer and counsel). Also assume that the desire persists for a very long time and is not a desire on a whim.

I base my conclusion on Psalms 37:5 which says, “Find your delight in the LORD who will give you your heart’s desire.”

Please share your thoughts because I am confused. Thanks for your help.

houston1

 

[Polycarp1]

It depends on the desire. Some desires come from the action of the Holy Spirit in our lives and others come from our concupiscence or love of sin that we have by virtue of being a fallen race suffering from the consequences of original sin. If your delight is in the Lord then your heart’s desire will be for heavenly things and not to sin.

 

[houston1]

It depends on the desire. Some desires come from the action of the Holy Spirit in our lives and others come from our concupiscence or love of sin that we have by virtue of being a fallen race suffering from the consequences of original sin. If your delight is in the Lord then your heart’s desire will be for heavenly things and not to sin.

That makes sense. In my scenarios, I assume everything is morally neutral. So, does this mean that the desires are from God when one seeks God whole-heartedly? How does one discern this?

 

[MichaelHowling]

We were made by love, for love, to love.
God made us for Himself…pure and simple and EVERY desire…EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM…is present by God to point us to Himself.

However, sin has twisted our desires and our views at times.

Every desire you have is to bring you to God…but if you have disorders in you due to sin…the message gets misinterpreted.

The drug addict who is searching to deaden pain or feel happy, the prostitute who is searching to be loved rightly, the person who looks at a woman and wants to manipulate her or who is simply lusting after her…this disorganized desires are disordered but you can sense how they are simply missing their mark. People are made to be happy, have a right to be loved rightly, love beauty and see God in a person…all of these orient us to God and spiritual reality.

The devil has ALWAYS done this! He takes what God has made as good and beautiful and he tries to manipulate to “deface” God in our world and in our heart because of his malice toward God and us His children.

God bless!

 

[houston1]

We were made by love, for love, to love.
God made us for Himself…pure and simple and EVERY desire…EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM…is present by God to point us to Himself.

However, sin has twisted our desires and our views at times.

Every desire you have is to bring you to God…but if you have disorders in you due to sin…the message gets misinterpreted.

The drug addict who is searching to deaden pain or feel happy, the prostitute who is searching to be loved rightly, the person who looks at a woman and wants to manipulate her or who is simply lusting after her…this disorganized desires are disordered but you can sense how they are simply missing their mark. People are made to be happy, have a right to be loved rightly, love beauty and see God in a person…all of these orient us to God and spiritual reality.

The devil has ALWAYS done this! He takes what God has made as good and beautiful and he tries to manipulate to “deface” God in our world and in our heart because of his malice toward God and us His children.

God bless!

Thank you, Michael. I can clearly see that disordered desires are from Satan. What I am asking concerns morally neutral things - where to live, persons to marry, friends to share time with, avoidance of certain places or persons. Can I assume that our desires related to these sorts of things are from God provided one is seeking God whole-heartedly?

 

[DBT]

Hi Houston –

Thank you for your thread! This is a topic near and dear to my heart.

There are different ways to discern the direction and meaning of our desires. For major “life decisions” like you ask in your original post such as taking a particular job or choosing a vocation, we would greatly benefit from a formalized approach of discernment like what St. Ignatius teaches.

For more day-to-matters, though, we don’t necessarily need such a rigorous approach to things. Rather, in spiritual souls intuition is to be our guide.

Here is a link to some formation talks I gave to my Carmelite community called “Our Carmelite Promises.” From time to time I share them on this forum when questions like yours come up:

meditationsfromcarmel.com/content/formation-talks

Talk #2 is my own personal interpretation of the discernment of spirits, blending Carmelite and Ignatian teaching. This approach might address some of the things in your original post.

Talk #7 is my personal spiritual testimony. It is a method of Praying … Listening … and Acting that the Holy Spirit infused into my heart over these many years. It addresses how we can let go our mental attachments, learn to listen to the promptings of the Spirit, place ourselves continually in the present moment, nurture our intuition and act upon our impulses to do good at their “first movements” … with full confidence we are doing God’s will.

Talk #8 is a continuation of the above but focuses on some of the passive trials we might receive when fervently trying to live in His presence.

Again, these are highly personal testimonies … so some aspects may be of help … others not.

Sorry to throw so much at you (or if I’ve already shared these with you in the past) … but hopefully something here helps!

Dave

 

[houston1]

Hi Houston –

Thank you for your thread! This is a topic near and dear to my heart.

There are different ways to discern the direction and meaning of our desires. For major “life decisions” like you ask in your original post such as taking a particular job or choosing a vocation, we would greatly benefit from a formalized approach of discernment like what St. Ignatius teaches.

For more day-to-matters, though, we don’t necessarily need such a rigorous approach to things. Rather, in spiritual souls intuition is to be our guide.

Here is a link to some formation talks I gave to my Carmelite community called “Our Carmelite Promises.” From time to time I share them on this forum when questions like yours come up:

meditationsfromcarmel.com/content/formation-talks

Talk #2 is my own personal interpretation of the discernment of spirits, blending Carmelite and Ignatian teaching. This approach might address some of the things in your original post.

Talk #7 is my personal spiritual testimony. It is a method of Praying … Listening … and Acting that the Holy Spirit infused into my heart over these many years. It addresses how we can let go our mental attachments, learn to listen to the promptings of the Spirit, place ourselves continually in the present moment, nurture our intuition and act upon our impulses to do good at their “first movements” … with full confidence we are doing God’s will.

Talk #8 is a continuation of the above but focuses on some of the passive trials we might receive when fervently trying to live in His presence.

Again, these are highly personal testimonies … so some aspects may be of help … others not.

Sorry to throw so much at you (or if I’ve already shared these with you in the past) … but hopefully something here helps!

Dave

Dave, thank you. I remember that you sent me your link back in April (I think). I read some of your talks at that time and they were really helpful on understanding the passive Dark Night and also in understanding what St. John refers to as “habitual imperfection.” I will start studying the others. I would really like to get a handle on doing good at the “first movements” of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks again and may God bless you.

houston1

 

[DBT]

I would really like to get a handle on doing good at the “first movements” of the Holy Spirit.

Well, yes, that really can be the focal point of our interior lives! Easier said than done though … hopefully those talks will help on that front.

I recently came across a book by a Carmelite friar who calls this the work-of-the-work of being a spiritual personal … what St. John of the Cross calls the active of night of spirit. This is the “place” we will spend most of our spiritual lives. He coined a term that I think is most useful for why we are so apt to fall in it’s practice.

He calls it the “fatal pause” … that critical moment when we talk ourselves out of what ever thought to a small act of good that just popped into our mind. This “fatal pause” can come as quick as a snap of the fingers … but once that moment is gone; it’s a lost opportunity. Not a sin of course … but an illustration of what St. John calls an habitual imperfection if, as a regular course of action, we give into the weakness of our human nature and fail to promptly act upon those impulses to small acts of good (think the Little Way of St. Therese) that enter into our conscious mind.

Food for thought …

Dave

 

[houston1]

Well, yes, that really can be the focal point of our interior lives! Easier said than done though … hopefully those talks will help on that front.

I recently came across a book by a Carmelite friar who calls this the work-of-the-work of being a spiritual personal … what St. John of the Cross calls the active of night of spirit. This is the “place” we will spend most of our spiritual lives. He coined a term that I think is most useful for why we are so apt to fall in it’s practice.

He calls it the “fatal pause” … that critical moment when we talk ourselves out of what ever thought to a small act of good that just popped into our mind. This “fatal pause” can come as quick as a snap of the fingers … but once that moment is gone; it’s a lost opportunity. Not a sin of course … but an illustration of what St. John calls an habitual imperfection if, as a regular course of action, we give into the weakness of our human nature and fail to promptly act upon those impulses to small acts of good (think the Little Way of St. Therese) that enter into our conscious mind.

Food for thought …

Dave

Dave, thanks again. I just printed off your 1st talk and I will systematically work my way through your talks. It may take a little while given the Christmas break commitments.

Please share the name of the book written by the friar. I’d love to get a hold of it as I am really trying to live the life of holiness and anything that analyzes St. John of the Cross would be helpful.

God bless you.

houston1

 

[DBT]

Dave, thanks again. I just printed off your 1st talk and I will systematically work my way through your talks. It may take a little while given the Christmas break commitments.

Please share the name of the book written by the friar. I’d love to get a hold of it as I am really trying to live the life of holiness and anything that analyzes St. John of the Cross would be helpful.

God bless you.

houston1

Houston -

Here’s the book I mentioned:

icspublications.org/bookstore/cross/b_cross04.html

This is probably the best, most easy to understand and most practical commentary on St. John of the Cross I’ve come across in a long, long time. Father spends a great deal of time on our “desires” … but the focus is mostly on overcoming that which is disordered.

The link to the talks in the previous post also speak to our “desires” but the focus there is more on our spiritual life after the disordered aspects have largely been dealt with … or at least a commitment has been firmly made to fight those spiritually harmful tendencies.

Dave

 

[houston1]

Houston -

Here’s the book I mentioned:

icspublications.org/bookstore/cross/b_cross04.html

This is probably the best, most easy to understand and most practical commentary on St. John of the Cross I’ve come across in a long, long time. Father spends a great deal of time on our “desires” … but the focus is mostly on overcoming that which is disordered.

The link to the talks in the previous post also speak to our “desires” but the focus there is more on our spiritual life after the disordered aspects have largely been dealt with … or at least a commitment has been firmly made to fight those spiritually harmful tendencies.

Dave

Thank you, thank you. I will order this book. Thanks for your posts here and in other places. I always find them thoughtful and I am so glad that you are a member of the CAF.

Merry Christmas to you!

houston1