Sources Other Than the Bible?

[jmcrae]

What about the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit was given to the Church as a whole at Pentecost; not to individuals. It is as a united community that He leads and guides us; not as individuals.

If my personal interpretation of Scripture goes against the 2,000 year old interpretation of the Church - especially if my interpretation is something never yet heard of, shall I think that I am some kind of a spiritual genius (even though I’m running hard to keep up with “average” in every other aspect of my life) or shall I think that maybe I’ve misread something, and that I need to do a bit more studying, especially of the documents of the Church?

But every religion other than the Catholic Church was founded by someone who “discovered” something in the Scriptures that nobody else ever noticed before, for hundreds and hundreds of years. Can so many people who disagree not only with the Church but also with each other be such uniquely brilliant geniuses? Or is there even a chance that they might be mistaken in their interpretation, and that the Church, after all, knows what it’s talking about.

 

[valient_Lucy]

What about the Holy Spirit?

Charlye

The Holy Spirit guides the Church, not just you and me.

My mom has a bunch of books and different reference books. She also uses Today in the Word, which goes through either a different book or topic every month. She claims that, after Today in the Word, she started to love the Book of Leviticus. (I promplty had her commited to a psychiatric ward.)

 

[lak611]

She claims that, after Today in the Word, she started to love the Book of Leviticus. (I promplty had her commited to a psychiatric ward.)

Have her eating habits changed since she started to love Leviticus? All those food laws:whacky:

 

[ava_phils]

a Catholic in a similar situation is called upon to say “huh, well I don’t understand that teaching, it makes no sense to me, but if that is what the Church teaches then it must be true”.

i am a Catholic and every time i dont understand a teaching, i would really aim to learn more about it, until i understand it. especially now that we have easy access to all forms of information. and then i pray for it. i think its best for every Catholic to really understand the teachings of the Church, at least before practicing it. i also like to read other books about faith and religion. i believe that for one to know the truth, one should listen or know both sides of the story. if you only rely on yourself and just be faithful that the Holy Spirit is guiding you, you will never know the difference between truth and lie. the Holy Spirit uses other people, other things, to make you see and experience the real Light. faith is nurtured through the bible, religious books, people, and experience.

private interpretations has led many people, either with good intentions or not, to build or discover their own churches. i know that we are all guided by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit, i believe, wants us to be united in one Church, not to break away from each other.

 

[rr1213]

But every religion other than the Catholic Church was founded by someone who “discovered” something in the Scriptures that nobody else ever noticed before, for hundreds and hundreds of years.

I’d be careful there, Catholic doctrines have certainly “developed” over the years.

 

[Allweather]

I’d be careful there, Catholic doctrines have certainly “developed” over the years.

They’ve “developed” (which doesn’t mean “changed”) in a slow and systematic way, over a long period of time, through analysis by many people in a variety of places.

This is primarily what differentiates the cults and sects, which tend to pop up at the behest of one or a few men in one place, who “find” innovative things in Scripture that deviate significantly from what has gone before.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

They’ve “developed” (which doesn’t mean “changed”) in a slow and systematic way, over a long period of time, through analysis by many people in a variety of places.

Im sure your not saying protestants are a cult or sect.

But I do agree cults and or religious sects are way off the mark.(JW, Mormons, this new guy claiming to be Jesus)

 

[rr1213]

They’ve “developed” (which doesn’t mean “changed”) in a slow and systematic way, over a long period of time, through analysis by many people in a variety of places.

…and when Catholic doctrines “develop” the process is often accompanied by the claim that “this is the way that it has always been” but, now, we “simply have a more fuller and mature understanding” of the doctrine.

 

[rr1213]

Im sure your not saying protestants are a cult or sect.

But I do agree cults and or religious sects are way off the mark.(JW, Mormons, this new guy claiming to be Jesus)

Catholics believe that Protestants are heretical, so I suspect that he meant to include Protestants in his statement.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Catholics believe that Protestants are heretical, so I suspect that he meant to include Protestants in his statement.

I hope your wrong But I have heard catholics call us that before.

 

[colliric]

I hope your wrong But I have heard catholics call us that before.

A heretic is a blanket term meaning anyone who doesn’t follow the Teachings of Christ fully. This does not mean the Catholic Church consideres protestants as bad as Jehovah’s witnesses or Satanists or scientologists, etc. There are levels of Heretics. The term simply means you don’t follow the Catholic faith which is the true church of god.

In fact Protestants are more often referred to with the more friendly term “Defective Christians”. Even so I understand both sides throw mud around in terms of what to call the other side. I’ve been called a Romanist, Heck I was called “Pope” in my old school and I was then “High Church Anglican” and finally called a Papist… A term which is very offensive… I don’t follow Pope Benedict… I follow God, and Benedict is simply a nice holy leader who occasionally issues morality “Infallible doctrines” to guide the flock in our following of god, But I don’t follow him, I follow god.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

A heretic is a blanket term meaning anyone who doesn’t follow the Teachings of Christ fully. This does not mean the Catholic Church consideres protestants as bad as Jehovah’s witnesses or Satanists or scientologists, etc. There are levels of Heretics. The term simply means you don’t follow the Catholic faith which is the true church of god.

In fact Protestants are more often referred to with the more friendly term “Defective Christians”. Even so I understand both sides throw mud around in terms of what to call the other side. I’ve been called a Romanist, Heck I was called “Pope” in my old school and I was then “High Church Anglican” and finally called a Papist… A term which is very offensive… I don’t follow Pope Benedict… I follow God, and Benedict is simply a nice holy leader who occasionally issues morality “Infallible doctrines” to guide the flock in our following of god, But I don’t follow him, I follow god.

IMHO none of those names on either side should ever be used EVER. We dont have to call each other names to say we have the truth or we follow God. Wouldnt you agree?

Plus once you’ve labeled someone by calling them a name you’ve probably lost them as far as explaining your faith to them. They will just shut us off.

Love, patience and understanding is the ONLY way to go.

 

[colliric]

…and when Catholic doctrines “develop” the process is often accompanied by the claim that “this is the way that it has always been” but, now, we “simply have a more fuller and mature understanding” of the doctrine.

It’s called the evolution of understanding. It’s simple fact that when someone teaches you to do something, it takes you time to come to an understanding of why you were exactly taught to do it. That time can be anything from milliseconds, to day, years, and in the case of the Catholic Church, several millenia. It’s simply how the Human being’s learning process works, someone tells us something we might not understand like a riddle or maths problem or profound mystery of science, and we then have to work our way through the problem or theory or teaching to find out why the answer is what this person said it was. For example when I was in grade 1 I was taught what 1 + 1 equalled, it was true, it has always been true… I believed it as soon as I heard it. But I did NOT UNDERSTAND It until I learned how to count and add up numbers.

The church was taught to believe in the real presence from day one by Jesus Christ, which was later put into writing in ch 6 of the John Gospel and also the Last Supper narratives in all Gospels, but there was no understanding of why exactly we were taught to do it until several millennial later when the church finally decided that due to “Transubstantiation” the wine and bread actually do become Jesus(like he said they do), that is why we must believe Jesus is Really in the bread and Wine, because as John 6 attests, he becomes part of it somehow… We already knew that last part, but we didn’t understand anything about how it happens and why we must believe it happens.

But does coming up with a word to describe a process to allow us to understand exactly why we must believe Christ is in the bread and wine, change the fact we already believed that Jesus was REALLY in the Bread and Wine?

Of cause not.

 

[colliric]

IMHO none of those names on either side should ever be used EVER. We dont have to call each other names to say we have the truth or we follow God. Wouldnt you agree?

Plus once you’ve labeled someone by calling them a name you’ve probably lost them as far as explaining your faith to them. They will just shut us off.

Love, patience and understanding is the ONLY way to go.

No, I don’t agree. Heretic is a name which applies to all non-Catholic religious faiths, not just protestants. It is a blanket term applying to all other faiths, and it is also used by all other faiths to describe people not following their own faith. It is of cause related to the term “Heresy”, which is the belief of a teaching against the Catholic and therefore valid understanding of Christ. It is a categorical term. It is also used by Protestants in like manner to describe people not following their faiths.

To call someone a Heretic is to simply say they do not follow your faith. In this harsh world we all must separate ourselves from other faiths by using the word Heretical, Heresy or Heretic. This does not mean we don’t have compassion for the opposite side, it simply means that we don’t agree with them and we think agreeing with them is exceptionally dangerous to your spiritual wellbeing and we use the word because it is harsh and to the point. We must separate ourselves from them, but at the same time pray and care for them.

In the past of cause, some heresy has been so terrible that we have been forced to defend ourselves from it to extreme levels. It is so sad that the history books are littered with terrible heresies and terrible responses which have gotten rid of them.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

No, I don’t agree. Heretic is a name which applies to all non-Catholic religious faiths, not just protestants. It is a blanket term applying to all other faiths, and it is also used by all other faiths to describe people not following their own faith. It is of cause related to the term “Heresy”, which is the belief of a teaching against the Catholic and therefore valid understanding of Christ. It is a categorical term. It is also used by Protestants in like manner to describe people not following their faiths.

To call someone a Heretic is to simply say they do not follow your faith. In this harsh world we all must separate ourselves from other faiths by using the word Heretical, Heresy or Heretic. This does not mean we don’t have compassion for the opposite side, it simply means that we don’t agree with them and we think agreeing with them is exceptionally dangerous to your spiritual wellbeing and we use the word because it is harsh and to the point. We must separate ourselves from them, but at the same time pray and care for them.

In the past of cause, some heresy has been so terrible that we have been forced to defend ourselves from it to extreme levels. It is so sad that the history books are littered with terrible heresies and terrible responses which have gotten rid of them.

Hi,
Im curious how you think calling someone a heretic is going to bring them to Christ?Just asking–not meant to be a sarcastic question.

We were not commanded to call people names. It only leads to divisions. We are told to walk away and not throw our pearls upon swine but that just means to walk away, not to walk away calling them names.

I have had disagreements with people here and when it is apparent the conversation is going nowhere, I walk away but never calling them names. People are one of two things(regardless of what church they go or dont go to) you either are a believer or not. I am a believer but I dont worship in a catholic church and dont believe in all their teachings–does that make me any less of a believer in Christ–NO. In the eyes of the CC(man) it may make me a heretic but by calling me (a believer) a heretic because I dont conform to all the CC’s teachings is not going to get you any closer to getting me to join the CC. I guess I could compare it to people calling catholics non-christians. You guys hate that and with good reason. Because it is not true. Because I am a born again believer and have been adopted into Christ’s family, I am not a heretic(in God’s eyes).

Do you get where Im coming from?

 

[mrs_abbott]

Hi,
Im curious how you think calling someone a heretic is going to bring them to Christ?Just asking–not meant to be a sarcastic question.

We were not commanded to call people names. It only leads to divisions. We are told to walk away and not throw our pearls upon swine but that just means to walk away, not to walk away calling them names.

I have had disagreements with people here and when it is apparent the conversation is going nowhere, I walk away but never calling them names. People are one of two things(regardless of what church they go or dont go to) you either are a believer or not. I am a believer but I dont worship in a catholic church and dont believe in all their teachings–does that make me any less of a believer in Christ–NO. In the eyes of the CC(man) it may make me a heretic but by calling me (a believer) a heretic because I dont conform to all the CC’s teachings is not going to get you any closer to getting me to join the CC. I guess I could compare it to people calling catholics non-christians. You guys hate that and with good reason. Because it is not true. Because I am a born again believer and have been adopted into Christ’s family, I am not a heretic(in God’s eyes).

Do you get where Im coming from?

You’re right. Calling someone a heretic or any other name for that matter is not being Christian. :nope: All of mankind was created in God’s image and put on this earth to know, love and serve Him. Can’t all Catholic and non-Catholics agree on that point? If so, then there’s no need for name-calling of any sort, since we are all on this earth for the same purpose.
Good post, AFH!

 

[ALLFORHIM]

You’re right. Calling someone a heretic or any other name for that matter is not being Christian. :nope: All of mankind was created in God’s image and put on this earth to know, love and serve Him. Can’t all Catholic and non-Catholics agree on that point? If so, then there’s no need for name-calling of any sort, since we are all on this earth for the same purpose.
Good post, AFH!

Thanks:thumbsup:

 

[colliric]

Hi,
Im curious how you think calling someone a heretic is going to bring them to Christ?Just asking–not meant to be a sarcastic question.

We were not commanded to call people names. It only leads to divisions. We are told to walk away and not throw our pearls upon swine but that just means to walk away, not to walk away calling them names.

I have had disagreements with people here and when it is apparent the conversation is going nowhere, I walk away but never calling them names. People are one of two things(regardless of what church they go or dont go to) you either are a believer or not. I am a believer but I dont worship in a catholic church and dont believe in all their teachings–does that make me any less of a believer in Christ–NO. In the eyes of the CC(man) it may make me a heretic but by calling me (a believer) a heretic because I dont conform to all the CC’s teachings is not going to get you any closer to getting me to join the CC. I guess I could compare it to people calling catholics non-christians. You guys hate that and with good reason. Because it is not true. Because I am a born again believer and have been adopted into Christ’s family, I am not a heretic(in God’s eyes).

Do you get where Im coming from?

Yes,
I would never openly try to insult someone by calling them a Heretic personally, no. I would never call someone a Heretic in that manner… But I believe if you don’t follow the Catholic church of Christ why should that insult you? you don’t give a **** that some dude diffrent to you thinks your not doing things correctly, you think your right… so why should it insult you? Heretic does not mean anti-christian, to Catholics it means “not a follower of Christ in the Catholic belief of him”.

But in order to describe the difference between the Catholic Church and other church which I believe teach false doctrine, I will use the word heretical and heretic to describe the churches teachings simply because I believe it is gravely wrong. I don’t use protestant much, I will use Heretical. It does not mean I will not also describe them as “fellow Christians”. Heck I call Mormons “christian” in the loosest definition of it.

There is a difference between calling someone a Heretic and calling them “non-christian”(which is more insulting). You believe in Christ but you do not follow the teachings of what I believe is his Church. You can therefore be classified as a Heretic, I don’t think it is an insult at all, you can just go, “yep I don’t care I believe in Christ in a different manner, who gives a ****”. It’s only really insulting if your a Catholic and another Catholic calls you it. Just like if someone calls another christian a Non-christian.

 

[rr1213]

Yes,
I would never openly try to insult someone by calling them a Heretic personally, no. I would never call someone a Heretic in that manner… But I believe if you don’t follow the Catholic church of Christ why should that insult you? you don’t give a **** that some dude diffrent to you thinks your not doing things correctly, you think your right… so why should it insult you? Heretic does not mean anti-christian, to Catholics it means “not a follower of Christ in the Catholic belief of him”.

But in order to describe the difference between the Catholic Church and other church which I believe teach false doctrine, I will use the word heretical and heretic to describe the churches teachings simply because I believe it is gravely wrong. I don’t use protestant much, I will use Heretical. It does not mean I will not also describe them as “fellow Christians”. Heck I call Mormons “christian” in the loosest definition of it.

There is a difference between calling someone a Heretic and calling them “non-christian”(which is more insulting). You believe in Christ but you do not follow the teachings of what I believe is his Church. You can therefore be classified as a Heretic, I don’t think it is an insult at all, you can just go, “yep I don’t care I believe in Christ in a different manner, who gives a ****”. It’s only really insulting if your a Catholic and another Catholic calls you it. Just like if someone calls another christian a Non-christian.

I agree. Many Protestants believe that the Catholic Church is heretical. Same difference.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Yes,

I would never openly try to insult someone by calling them a Heretic personally, no. I would never call someone a Heretic in that manner…

Yes I see what you are saying but I dont think catholics should be calling each other names either. If the goal is to get catholics back calling them heretics wont work either. That Im sure will just push them away even further and may even prove apoint in their head if they think the church is wrong.

[/QUOTE]