South Carolina Masses reopening guidelines -- wow!

[Poet]

Where are you getting that idea?

Many sources.

Drs. Erikson and Massihi whose studies suggest many people have the virus completely asymptomatically and therefore the actually death rate is .028%. And most of those are the elderly and those with health issues. That means for the average, reasonably healthy American, the death rate is extremely low.

From reports from other doctors and nurses saying much of what we’re being told is not true or greatly exaggerated.

From the Covid tent hospitals that went up so quickly and came down again having seen very few patients.

From people looking at overall death figures and saying they aren’t that much higher this year than any other year. I’m going by memory but I think what I read yesterday said our overall death rate is actually lower this year than in the same time frame in 2017.

From Dr. Birx telling us straight up that they’re labeling every death of someone WITH covid as a death OF covid. This means that if you have a completely asymptomatic case and are hit by a train, you are now counted as a covid death–thus inflating the numbers.

From reports coming out of people saying their mother/father/etc was falsely counted as a covid death when in fact they died of something else.

Poet:

To me it seems irreverent. Obviously, that’s a personal reaction. How do you feel it’s scrupulosity? I wouldn’t have thought of that in connection with masks.

It’s a safety measure. How could it possibly equal a lack of respect?

How do you feel it’s scrupulosity?

This is free exercise of religion. The guidelines are set by the bishop.

I’m talking more in general about the fact that government officials could snap their fingers and close churches in the first place.

 

[JulianN]

Drs. Erikson and Massihi whose studies suggest many people have the virus completely asymptomatically and therefore the actually death rate is .028%. And most of those are the elderly and those with health issues. That means for the average, reasonably healthy American, the death rate is extremely low.

These two doctors have been widely discredited and censured. Their motives have more to do with their ownership of urgent care clinics than actual science. Nothing in their statements supports the death rate you cited.

From people looking at overall death figures and saying they aren’t that much higher this year than any other year. I’m going by memory but I think what I read yesterday said our overall death rate is actually lower this year than in the same time frame in 2017.

Statistically, one in three deaths in the U.S., as of May 11, is due to COVID.

From Dr. Birx telling us straight up that they’re labeling every death of someone WITH covid as a death OF covid. This means that if you have a completely asymptomatic case and are hit by a train, you are now counted as a covid death–thus inflating the numbers.

No, it has nothing to do with being hit by a train, as I’m sure you know. However, if you have diabetes, and contract COVID and die – they are no longer going to put diabetes as the cause of death, since COVID was primarily to blame.

If anything, epidemiologists are concerned that we are undercounting, not overcounting, COVID deaths.

 

[Jon_in_the_Nati]

Look, I’m not sure where @gracepoole thinks scrupulosity comes into this, so I’ll ask the question more directly:

Irrespective of whether the masks are either effective or necessary, what is it about people wearing masks in the church that strikes you as irreverent?

I can’t think of anything about it that is irreverent, all else being equal (i.e., the people wearing masks are not engaging in any activity that would be out of the normal in a church).

 

[boldlygo]

I’ll just be glad when we can get back to Mass…here in Ohio, it’s tentatively the weekend of Pentecost, and I haven’t seen guidelines for attendance yet.

 

[Peeps]

Don’t they mean locked to outside entries, but those inside can get out?

Although I can see where it might be against fire code, as the fire dept. doesn’t want to waste time battering the door down to rescue people and put out the fire.

 

[PetraG]

I read on Twitter about a church (or maybe diocese) that was prohibiting singing due to the potential of droplet spread. I don’t plan to go to Sunday Mass because being in an enclosed space with a bunch of people, even if they are spread out, still seems dangerous for someone like me with an underlying health condition. Daily Mass is never crowded, so I’ll do that for the duration. I’d go to an outdoor Mass if that were ever available.

Yes, since the choir practice in Mount Vernon, WA, at which no one was symptomatic and everyone was trying to be “careful” but 45 of 60 people still tested positive afterwards, the reality that singing both projects droplets and draws inhaled breaths deep into the lungs is deeply appreciated, I think.

Experimental studies show that talking loudly also projects aerosol much farther than 6 feet. On top of this, there are some people who were found to really project the “aerosol” farther than what is typical when they talk. I’m guessing they don’t know who they are, but the people who learn to stand back when such people are excited about what they’re saying know who they are!

 

[commenter]

Statistically, one in three deaths in the U.S., as of May 11, is due to COVID.

You have a source?

 

[Dlee]

With regard to locking the doors - in the U.S., school outside doors are locked at all times. They have a push bar/panic hardware for exit. I would think most churches would have this - it might be required.

 

[JulianN]

You have a source?

Coronavirus daily deaths vs all causes United States 2022 | Statista

 

[ccmcmg]

One of our ‘regulations’ is that we have to reserve a seat and give our name. I don’t like having to give our name, which the government locally is requesting. But I can’t ‘reserve’ a ticket unless I give my name, address and email, and they must match the parish records!!

 

[Peeps]

I, as I assume they are, using thermal scanners, I guarantee they read high when the skin is flushed. That is how we initially test temperature, using an oral thermometer on those that read high. There can be a couple of degrees difference, with the thermal scan being inaccurate.

I think the idea is to catch a rise in temperature before someone inadvertently exposes others.

People vary in their tolerance for fever. I’m a zombie on the sofa with a 99.5 or above, while my husband can keep working with a temp over 100, and never realize he has a temp until I tell him he looks like a sugar beet.

 

[pnewton]

I think the hottest I have seen with a normal temperature was 100.8. That was at night, but there was also some physical exertion. His face was still flushed.

 

[Glennon_P]

Fire Marshals are having a stroke over this one. Don’t think that’s safe. Could have someone at the doors and just say sorry.

Some doors can be locked from the outside but still be unlocked from the inside. I would imagine that’s what’s going on here.

This got me thinking - the front doors on our parish church (early 1950s vintage) do not have a crash bar on them. Deadbolt only. When it’s locked, it’s locked both ways.

There are two other exit doors on the side of the vestibule and two more at the front of the church that all have crash bars on them, so you could lock them from the outside but still open them from the inside.
[/QUOTE]

 

[TMC]

I don’t see the problem with making a “reservation.” The church can only accommodate so many people, and reservations seems a reasonable way to deal with that. We do it for restaurants, concerts and sporting events. What is the problem?

 

[Anesis]

Until you or someone you love is one of the dead.

It’s not hurting you. These measures are done out of love and charity for other people. You don’t know who is suffering from what type of illness or health issue and I for one do not want to have to be singled out from yet another thing because people are too selfish to put on a mask and stay apart from each other. In a couple of weeks, all of the states will be open again and then we’ll see the real impact. If you choose to take the risk for yourself just remember - you’re also making a decision for your family, friends, coworkers, and fellow brothers & sisters in Christ. One they may not survive. I just had a kidney transplant 2 years ago and was just now getting to the point where my immunosuppressants, while still hight, were lowered a bit, allowing my immune system to be a tad bit stronger, where maybe a cold won’t end up as pneumonia again. I had just gotten my “freedom”. Then this pandemic hit. I’m back a square one. But thankfully, I have a healthy kidney so I’m not stuck going to dialysis every other day for 4 hours.

I have to say I’m actually stunned and really saddened to read/hear some of the things people are saying about what they see as a faceless mass of “vulnerable” people who they see as the reason they can’t do what they want to do. Guess what? Neither can those of us is the “faceless mass”.

• I can’t go to any public place.
• I can’t go on vacation.
• I can’t go into work at my job.
• I can’t go to the doctor (it’s all done online).
• Now I’m finding that there are many Catholics who feel that protecting the vulnerable is too much of an inconvenience, so now I can’t go to Mass either.

We are people. Children of God, created uniquely and precious in His eyes. We are young & old, healthy & sick, shy & bold, busy & quiet, rich & poor. But we all matter to someone and we want to live too.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Until you or someone you love is one of the dead.

It’s not hurting you. These measures are done out of love and charity for other people. You don’t know who is suffering from what type of illness or health issue and I for one do not want to have to be singled out from yet another thing because people are too selfish to put on a mask and stay apart from each other. In a couple of weeks, all of the states will be open again and then we’ll see the real impact. If you choose to take the risk for yourself just remember - you’re also making a decision for your family, friends, coworkers, and fellow brothers & sisters in Christ. One they may not survive. I just had a kidney transplant 2 years ago and was just now getting to the point where my immunosuppressants, while still hight, were lowered a bit, allowing my immune system to be a tad bit stronger, where maybe a cold won’t end up as pneumonia again. I had just gotten my “freedom”. Then this pandemic hit. I’m back a square one. But thankfully, I have a healthy kidney so I’m not stuck going to dialysis every other day for 4 hours.

I have to say I’m actually stunned and really saddened to read/hear some of the things people are saying about what they see as a faceless mass of “vulnerable” people who they see as the reason they can’t do what they want to do. Guess what? Neither can those of us is the “faceless mass”.

• I can’t go to any public place.
• I can’t go on vacation.
• I can’t go into work at my job.
• I can’t go to the doctor (it’s all done online).
• Now I’m finding that there are many Catholics who feel that protecting the vulnerable is too much of an inconvenience, so now I can’t go to Mass either.

We are people. Children of God, created uniquely and precious in His eyes. We are young & old, healthy & sick, shy & bold, busy & quiet, rich & poor. But we all matter to someone and we want to live too.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

This is all too soon. Most of all when it comes to opening churches. I realize that it is tormenting some people’s souls, eating them alive spiritually, that they cannot go to Mass. People far holier than I go to Mass every day. They receive communion every day. I get that.

But you can spiritually “go to Mass”. You can spiritually “receive communion”. You can make an act of perfect contrition and receive forgiveness of mortal sin. Our Lord does not confine His grace to “one way and one way only”. Where grace cannot be had one way, it can be had another way. I will grant that it is not the ex opere operato grace of the actual sacraments, but it is still grace, and perhaps Our Lord is pouring it out in abundance in the present crisis. I have to think that, in certain ways at least, people are sinning less. Much sin is committed in the company of large groups, or in the company of illicit companions — think of drunken partying, “rave parties” with “club drugs”, promiscuous sex, strip clubs, and so on. Yes, I know, all of these sins, or the closest thing, can be committed in the privacy of one’s own home (drug and alcohol abuse at home, pornography, and so on), but my point should be clear. People are staying at home. They are actually getting to know their families again.

Many things in life cannot be “done spiritually”. You cannot spiritually work on someone else’s car if you’re a mechanic, you cannot spiritually eat a sandwich, you cannot spiritually fill up your car with gasoline. Some work has to continue out in the world. Some can work from home, but others cannot. Fast-food workers and grocery clerks actually have to be on site. But the life of faith can, if there is no other way, be lived spiritually in solitude. It’s not God’s plan for all people at all times, but in the here and now, for the duration, it may indeed be His plan.

 

[pnewton]

This is all too soon. Most of all when it comes to opening churches.

So, should we go another year or two without Mass? This whole was never supposed to reduce the number of cases. It was supposed to spread them out. We have done that, so it is likely we will have this virus somewhere in the country for months, maybe a year or more.

The best recourse during the lockdown, better than just twiddling our thumbs, is to use the time to prepare enough supplies for a new normal, and find a way to re-open safely. My own parish is now open with Masses for 60-80 people. It is done safely. More importantly, we now have a way to continue for years, if that is needed. We do not do everything that South Carolina is doing, but we are doing enough. We will not be a vector for spreading this virus.

 

[CRM_Brother]

Umm… as a Catholic in South Carolina who has contact with those making the decisions for the reopening guidelines, I have to say that the opening of this thread has been extremely misleading. There has been NO universal guidelines submitted by the Diocese of Charleston to the public. The guidelines which have been posted above are restricted to a single parish. The diocese has explicitly stated that the regulations of a single parish within the diocese should not be compared with another. Each pastor creates the parish’s plan for reopening and submits it to the diocese for approval with the diocese’s board of health experts.

Yes, the diocese has absolute minimum requirements that it requires from the parishes, but the ones listed above do not describe them. Because of the vast difference in the density of the coronavirus outbreak and the relatively low number of Catholics in the state, some parishes can be safely reopened while others must come up with extreme plans to protect their parishioners.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

This is all too soon. Most of all when it comes to opening churches.

So, should we go another year or two without Mass?

It could be. Hope not, but could be. There is this new strain of something that is making children sick. We’ll need to see what the “second wave” produces, if indeed there is a “second wave”.

People in frontier and mission areas went for long periods of time without Mass or sacraments. That wasn’t ideal, but it was just the way things were. To use the most extreme example, Japanese Catholics were priest-less for 200 years.

If things flare up again, orders of magnitude worse than the first, we may eventually end up in a state of something resembling martial law, with forced allocation of resources and much scarcity along with loss of jobs. That would not be to anyone’s liking, but sometimes reality just is what it is. We will just have to see, and in all cases, trust in Divine Providence and joyfully embrace whatever crosses Our Blessed Lord allows to exist in our lives.