Southern Baptist Officials abused hundreds, says new report

[ltwin]

Saying and doing nothing is still covering it up, regardless of of a church’s polity.

No, it isn’t. Issuing a report about sexual abuse in the SBC in 2008 is not covering it up. It’s acknowledging that there is a problem, just not really coming up with a solution for it.

http://www.sbc.net/pdf/2008ReportSBC.pdf

If they know about abuse, they’re legally required to report it, just like the Catholic Church and everyone else.

The SBC’s denominational leaders would probably not be mandatory reporters in most cases because they are hearing of these cases way after the fact. As a public school teacher, I’m a mandatory reporter. If I have even a suspicion that a child is being abused, I have to report it directly to social services or the police. I cannot hand off that responsibility to my principal. If local church leaders become aware of abuse, they have to report it. They can’t pass that responsibility off to some SBC bureaucrat.

And, more importantly, I haven’t seen any article that stated that SBC denominational leaders (not local leaders) were informed of abuse and did not report it to the proper authorities. That would be a cover-up.

Even if you were a member of an SBC church and you were being abused, you wouldn’t even know who to report it to outside of the congregation. There is no bishop. There are local associations and state conventions, but all they could do would be to call the police–which is something you can do yourself–and ask the church what’s going on. They can’t remove anyone. They would only be able to kick the church out if they refused to take action.

If you are a child being abused, I seriously doubt you’d even know that local associations and state conventions even existed.

You have a local pastor, local deacons, and adults congregants. That is it. That is who you report to. If it’s the pastor, you tell the deacon board and they have to take action.

 

[Londoner]

True up to a point. It is a problem with a lot of institutions. I don’t really know about the US, and I assume that it’s not as bad there, but in the UK the reporting of the sexual abuse crisis in the Catholic Church is inextricable from the anti-Catholic bigotry that is still widespread in British society. This has led to an entirely false perception that child sexual abuse is something that has mainly been a problem in the Catholic Church (and more recently within Muslim communities).

Now, the reason why I am concerned about this is absolutely not because I think that the culpability of the Catholic Church should be minimised in any way at all. It’s entirely because I think that the British media and public debate has taken the focus off of some other institutions that are equally, if not more, at fault. And the people who suffer most as a result are the victims.

In the UK, at any rate, when sexual abuse has taken place in a Catholic institution it is added to the catalogue of abuses for which the Catholic Church is responsible, and rightly so. I give my own Church no quarter in this regard.

However, when sexual abuse has taken place in an Anglican institution, it is typically regarded as being a problem that was specific to that institution. For example, it seems that virtually every single one of Britain’s Anglican public schools (i.e. elite private boarding schools) has by now had some scandal involving sexual abuse and/or absolutely appalling excesses in the use of corporal punishment (such as one famous headmaster, an Anglican cathedral canon, caning an entire rugby team for losing a game). When this happens, however, it is typically reported as a scandal to do with Eton or Winchester or Christ’s Hospital or wherever, and not with the Church of England. It has also happened in Anglican state schools, e.g. the case where a teacher abducted a pupil and took her to France for the purpose of sexual activity.

The case of Peter Ball, a former Anglican diocesan bishop, showed that the cover-up extended right up to the level of the archbishop of Canterbury himself. And yet, somehow, the Church of England has emerged from this scandal with its reputation not quite entirely ruined. In another scandal around the same time the archbishop of York covered up abuse reportedly committed by no less a dignitary than the dean of Manchester. The case of the diocese of Chichester also makes for an alarming case study, to the extent that the diocese eventually came to be regarded as a kind of safe haven for paedophiles. And all of this is before one begins to consider the scale of the problem in ordinary parish churches. Just for example take the case of Timothy Storey at St Michael’s, Chester Square.

I really hope that the debate moves on to a point where we become more objective and where all institutions are held to the same degree of scrutiny to which the Catholic Church has already been held. In Britain I think this must particularly now be the case with our established Church, whose absolutely appalling failures have for too long now been overlooked.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

"The Baptists are congregationalists. Baptist denominations do not ordain or have any authority over clergy or local church personnel. If a local minister, employee or volunteer of a SBC church abuses a child or adult member the only options are the police and/or the local church’s own processes."

You said earlier in another post that the police was an option. So why didn’t they call the police? This was 2008, not 1962. Seven years after the major Catholic abuse scandal.

 

[TULIPed]

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that the majority of criminals in the article were actually discovered via a search of police records?. It felt to me like the central idea was that these heinous offenders - who had either served jail time, or had plea deals for probation - we rehired in spite of their past history.

 

[goout]

These are crimes and these kinds of crimes deserve thorough investigation. Along those lines, where is the media investigation of the NEA? (national education association, or “teacher’s union”)

It’s a fact that any given child is 100 times more likely to suffer abuse at the hands of a teacher than a priest. And priests are a very close statistical match to the general population in sexual abuse.

Where’s the outrage over the teacher’s union?

 

[adgloriam]

These are really good explanations @ltwin about the SBC as an organization. But I do have one question: Then how do SBC guarantee any homogeneity? Because the structure you just described can fit plenty of variations under the common denominator label SBC. If there’s no central authority any congregation can do pretty much as they please, and it seems the layman would have more vote than religious on most matters.

 

[SteelArchangel]

On a semi-related topic, the “minister” at my wife’s grandmother’s church was a new, younger guy heading up a congregation of about 2,000 people.

As the year waned, more and more chinks in his armor began to show. Popular ministry programs were cut due to budgetary concerns. The sermons became more accusatory of the flock not doing enough. Towards the end there were “accounting discrepancies”, while he and his wife were suddenly driving brand new SUVs and building a $400,000 house in a town 60 miles away.

Somehow the succeeding minister, informed the SBC, changed the locks and he was confronted in the parking lot. Turns out…he was never even ordained or having graduated from a theology school of any type. He merely did a few online courses, and the SBC hired him anyways.

 

[ltwin]

You said earlier in another post that the police was an option. So why didn’t they call the police? This was 2008, not 1962. Seven years after the major Catholic abuse scandal.

I agree that officials at the time who learned of abuse should have reported it.

What I’m saying is that there was never a national SBC cover-up. What I’ve read is simply the SBC national leadership trying to come up with a solution to the issue–not covering it up. If there was a cover-up, it would have been at the local level, because the SBC as a denomination does not have a hierarchy to cover anything up.

In the Catholic Church, pedophile priests were moved around by church authorities. In the SBC, pastors are not ordained or assigned positions by the denomination. Pastors are “free agents”. If you want to be an SBC pastor, you simply find a church that will hire you, and then you work for the local church.

 

[ltwin]

and the SBC hired him anyways.

The SBC does not “hire” pastors. It doesn’t even ordain pastors. Each SBC church ordains and hires its own ministers. Each SBC church decides its own qualifications for ministry. You don’t have to go to seminary, even though many SBC pastors are seminary trained.

 

[on_the_hill]

The modern world is not known for grace or reason, I’m afraid.

I think the modern world provides the technology so that people can exhibit the lack of grace and reason that’s always been a problem.

 

[ltwin]

Then how do SBC guarantee any homogeneity?

More through shared culture rather than any kind of disciplinary process. The SBC does operate seminaries and missionary organizations, so those help inculcate an Southern Baptist ethos, but there is no way to assure 100% uniformity.

Because the structure you just described can fit plenty of variations under the common denominator label SBC.

Yes, there are Arminians and Calvinists in the same denomination. There are fundamentalists and charismatics and liberals in the same denomination (though in recent years the liberal SBC churches have left for more open minded Baptist denominations).

If there’s no central authority any congregation can do pretty much as they please, and it seems the layman would have more vote than religious on most matters.

Yes, congregations have complete independence. Congregational autonomy is an article of the Baptist faith. Another article of the Baptist faith is that members of the congregation get to vote on church decisions.

While pastors have a lot of day to day control over the church, in reality church members have the power in an SBC congregation. They can vote in and vote out the pastor whenever they feel like it.

 

[CTBcin]

Yes, congregations have complete independence. Congregational autonomy is an article of the Baptist faith. Another article of the Baptist faith is that members of the congregation get to vote on church decisions.

Since I am not all that familiar with the SBC, how does complete congregational autonomy relate to being in the SBC? As in, what role does SBC membership play for an individual congregation?

 

[SteelArchangel]

SBC is so huge and so disorganized, they have no formal order or process thus things like that happen.

 

[ltwin]

As in, what role does SBC membership play for an individual congregation?

You get to cooperate with other Baptist churches in common causes like missions, seminaries, higher ed., relief organizations, etc. The SBC has colleges and seminaries, and students from SBC churches get scholarships and discounts. The SBC has the International Missions Board which sponsors over 3,000 missionaries and the North American Mission Board that sponsors domestic evangelism, church planting, and disaster relief. So, if you are a Baptist church, joining the SBC could make a lot of sense in terms of allowing you to participate in all of these voluntary programs.

 

[ltwin]

Where’s the outrage over the teacher’s union?

The NEA is not responsible for teacher abuse. The NEA is a voluntary organization of adults. The NEA does not operate schools. They have no liability over the actions of individual teachers, even if those teachers happen to be members.

That’s like saying the Coal Miner’s union is liable for the child abuse committed by coal miners.

But maybe you were trying to make that point, and I just misunderstood.

 

[Sarcelle]

Any institution which has humans will certainly have sinful behavior in them.

 

[pnewton]

What bothers me most is when I see this terrible problem being used for political points. Here, teachers are the biggest problem. There are a lot and have access to children. Because sexual exploitation of minors is such a part of our society, wherever such access exists, it will occur, either through temptation of the weak, or the exploitation by predators.

The Catholic Church will not “win” by teachers sinning more, or by Baptists being named. We will never “win.” So we should quit trying to please others, whether by transparency, or by hiding sin. Everything we do should be weighed only on the basis of what is right, that is, the most just, merciful, and still prudent.

 

[ltwin]

What bothers me most is when I see this terrible problem being used for political points.

It will be used by those who are hostile to the Catholic Church anyway. That’s unavoidable. What I think hurts the Catholic Church more is the allegations that church leaders played “pass the trash” rather than at the very least preventing those priests from having any role in the church and reporting them to law enforcement.

“Passing the trash”–moving incompetent or dangerous employees from one church/school/etc. to another where they can then continue their incompetent and dangerous behavior–is a trap that many organizations fall into. It’s not unique to the Catholic Church.

 

[goout]

goout:

Where’s the outrage over the teacher’s union?

The NEA is not responsible for teacher abuse. The NEA is a voluntary organization of adults. The NEA does not operate schools. They have no liability over the actions of individual teachers, even if those teachers happen to be members.

That’s like saying the Coal Miner’s union is liable for the child abuse committed by coal miners.

But maybe you were trying to make that point, and I just misunderstood.

What is the purpose of the NEA? Are teachers members? Does the NEA speak about issues germane to the employment of teachers? Does it address difficult issues in the classroom? Are the members of the association actual teachers?
Are you applying the same disconnected associations to priests and Southern Baptists? (and yes, I will accept a higher standard for the Church, as it should be).

The point I am making is that media outlets pretending to pursue the good of children are in fact selectively outraged at Christians.
I’d like to see outlets like PBS Newshour stop trying to score political and ideological points and just report the news, like their title says,“news-hour”.
News is news, report it all please.

 

[ltwin]

What is the purpose of the NEA? Are teachers members? Does the NEA speak about issues germane to the employment of teachers? Does it address difficult issues in the classroom? Are the members of the association actual teachers?

It is an association of teachers. It is not an employer of teachers. Schools employ teachers. When predators are able to gain access to minors due to being teachers, the school that teacher works for has a responsibility to first report them to the police as soon as it finds out and second it has a responsibility to put procedures in place to try to prevent such situations from happening in the first place. Blame the schools and school districts. Hold them accountable. Blaming the teacher’s union is misguided.

Are you applying the same disconnected associations to priests and Southern Baptists?

Yes to the Southern Baptist Convention, no to Southern Baptist churches and no to the Catholic Church.

In the case of the Southern Baptist Convention, it is simply an association of independent congregations. It has no authority over member churches. If a denominational official learns of abuse occurring in a Southern Baptist church, they would of course need to report that to the police, but that is really all they can do legally speaking. They have no control over individual churches.

In the case of individual Southern Baptist congregations, these churches have a moral and a legal responsibility to report incidences of sexual abuse and implement polices and procedures to prevent such incidences from occurring in the first place.

In the case of the Catholic Church, priests are employed by Catholic dioceses and the churches they work in are owned by Catholic dioceses. If Catholic officials learn that a priest might have committed abuse, it has a responsibility to report that to the police and remove the priest.