Southern Poverty Law Center on SSPX

[JaMc]

Has anyone come across the SPLC’s hatchet-job on the SSPX? While I am not a member of the SSPX, and attend the OF mass (mostly out of necessity - OF Parish is a block away from my house, whereas closest EF chapel is an hour away), the SPLC could at least get their facts straight, i.e., I highly doubt Abp. Lefebvre was as sympathetic to those who killed his father as the SPLC makes it appear (as just one example of the many inaccuracies in the article).

splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=397

Maybe some here should click on the “Contact Us” link on the bottom of the page, and (charitably and gently) set them straight on the SSPX?

 

[maize]

speaking of splc, i was looking at the radical traditionalists in my area and found one…

In the Spirit of Chartres Committee

its actually HQed in my neighborhood.

weird.

 

[nsper7]

Has anyone come across the SPLC’s hatchet-job on the SSPX? While I am not a member of the SSPX, and attend the OF mass (mostly out of necessity - OF Parish is a block away from my house, whereas closest EF chapel is an hour away), the SPLC could at least get their facts straight, i.e., I highly doubt Abp. Lefebvre was as sympathetic to those who killed his father as the SPLC makes it appear (as just one example of the many inaccuracies in the article).

splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=397

Maybe some here should click on the “Contact Us” link on the bottom of the page, and (charitably and gently) set them straight on the SSPX?

What factual errors are there in the article?

 

[Extempore]

Although there have been recent attempts by the Vatican to pull SSPX back into the Catholic mainstream, the organization, all of whose priests were excommunicated in the late 1980s, has continued to publish anti-Semitic materials, flirt with Holocaust denial and reject any reconciliation with the Catholic Church.

(emphasis mine)

Wow, I didn’t have to read past the first paragraph to find a nice little journalistic touch with the “all of whose priests were excommunicated” comment. In order to better palate this article, it would be best to forget the pesky little fact that the excommunications only involved the 4 bishops, the holocaust issue only involved one of these bishops (whose ideas were not condoned by the Society) and finally, to forget that the SSPX is currently in the process of further (and hopefully complete) reconciliation with Rome.

Ah well, it sounds much more exciting to flamboyantly (and incorrectly) generalize in order make the group sound even more villainous and disobedient.

 

[JaMc]

What factual errors are there in the article?

For starters:

the organization, all of whose priests were excommunicated in the late 1980s

Only the Bishops were excommunicated. The priests were only suspended.

Lefebvre was always on the hard right. During World War II, he supported the pro-Nazi Vichy regime, a puppet government in the part of France not occupied by the Germans. He lamented the eventual liberation of the country

His family was opposed to the Nazi regime. His father, in fact, died in a concentration camp for being a part of the French Resistance. I believe, actually, they were monarchists, not fascists.

Lefebvre later was on an advisory committee to the Second Vatican Council (1962-65), which enacted several liberalizing and modernizing reforms within the church. But the archbishop refused to sign the council’s final reports on religious liberty and the modern church, the first sign of a rebellion that would only grow in later years.

I thought, actually, he did sign the VII documents, but was opposed to what eventually came out of the council (though I realize this is subject to some debate)

Pope John Paul II responded by excommunicating Lefebvre and all SSPX priests, and declaring SSPX in formal schism with the church.

Again, only the bishops were excommunicated. Even then, whether or not they were actually excommunicated has been subject to debate.

Also in 1989, one of Lefebvre’s “bishops,” Englishman Richard Williamson

Putting “Bishops” in quotes implies that they were/are not actually Bishops. There is no question they were validly consecrated, meaning they are, really, Bishops. The issue is whether they were licitly consecrated.

In recent months, Pope Benedict XVI has extended an olive branch to SSPX members, inviting them to return to the church. But the sect’s leaders rejected the suggestion outright. As a result, Benedict last September approved an institute for French priests who left the movement. The pope’s move marked the effective end to efforts by the Vatican to bring the SSPX sect back into the Catholic fold.

The recent lifting of the ecommunications has proven this last paragraph wrong - if they are going to keep up the article, they should update it.

The bulk of the article accuses the SSPX of anti-semitism. The Angelus articles I will have to look up and verify, but, of course, there is the whole Williamson issue, which has been beaten to death of late.

 

[pnewton]

I get a copy of the SPLC report all the time which I promptly trash. Their tendancy to make a stretch to find racism leaves everything they publish, even the good stuff, tainted. They are themselves as biased as the groups on which they report.

 

[Ottaviani]

Someone needs to go after them for libel. I know some good traditionalist lawyers who might be up to the job. Time to makes some phone calls:thumbsup:

 

[RedGecko]

Research by the Antwerp based “Joods Actueel” weekly magazine has revealed a “slew of anti-Semitic content” on websites of the St Pius X Society in five languages, The European Jewish Press reports.

The magazine found the society’s US website described Jews as “the enemy of man, whose secret weapon is the leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy,” adding that “heads of Jewry have for centuries conspired methodically and out of an undying hatred against the Catholic name.”

The South African site said that “Jews have come closer and closer to fulfilling their substitute Messianic drive towards world dominion.” The Irish site asks whether “the Jews are guilty of Deicide,” answering: “We must say yes.”

The Belgian site accuses Jews of “still believing they are the chosen people” while “awaiting world domination.”

cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=11886

 

[RedGecko]

{One article on the US website of SSPX} includes these comments, which read less like a contemporary theological reflection on the Jewish faith and more like passages Mein Kampf. For the record, the article was written in 1997:

“It is public knowledge that the Jewish sector, relatively small compared to the Gentile sector which devotes itself to the creation of wealth, controls especially the financial power that is exercised through banks.”

"Then these Jews, in the name of their Law, their Torah, and to serve the material interests of their nation and race, demanded the blood of Him who had been promised them as their blessing. They stirred up the Gentiles against Jesus. Using them to carry out their plans, they crucified the One who was to be raised up as a “sign of contradiction”.

“Judaism is inimical to all nations in general, and in a special manner to Christian nations.”

“Catholics are not to enter into commercial, social, nor political relations which are bound hypocritically to seek the ruin of Christendom. Jews must not live together with Christians because this is what their own Jewish laws ordain and also because their errors and material superiority have virulent consequences among other peoples.”

americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&id=2D6AFB07-1438-5036-4F1C9D841C32199D

 

[RedGecko]

The SPLC has a newer article (February, 2009) on anti-semitism in the SSPX, than the one mentioned in the first post. Most of the content of the new article appeared in the older one, but one startling allegation is that representatives of the SSPX publishing firm hawked copies of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion at far-right Catholic conferences in the US, and that the US headquarters of the SSPX also used to sell the book.
splcenter.org/blog/2009/02/26/behind-the-bishop-the-anti-semitism-of-the-sspx/

 

[Ottaviani]

Now its bad enough ,as anyone connected with SSPX knows, that the Jews are guilty of deicide, eternally cursed for rejecting Jesus, going to burn in Hell and are the anti-Christ undermining Christianity and Christians at every opportunity. However, there is not much point in suing them or any of their liberal anti-Christian organizations for libel because as everyone knows that with all the Jew lawyers and all the Jew Judges and the Jew ACLU and their control of the media and the Congress there’s about as much a chance of winning that case as there is that a Jew will get to heaven.

Do you feel better after venting?

Libel is libel. False and inflammatory published statements made about a person or organization with provable harm have an action in court.

 

[chosen_people]

Do you feel better after venting?

Libel is libel. False and inflammatory published statements made about a person or organization with provable harm have an action in court.

Thank you for your explanation about the meaning of libel. It may come in very handy at work.

I too believe that groups like the SPLC should be protected to be able to expose religious, ethnic and racial prejudice. However that may just be “Jewish naturalism” talking.

 

[elts1956]

Thank you for your explanation about the meaning of libel. It may come in very handy at work.

I too believe that groups like the SPLC should be protected to be able to expose religious, ethnic and racial prejudice. However that may just be “Jewish naturalism” talking.

Hello again Chosen. For a long time I supported SPLC. They do have a history of protecting the underdog, so to speak. But then I found they also support the ACLU which I really have difficulty with. So no longer do I support SPLC.

How are you? How is the land of our faith surviving?

 

[chosen_people]

Hello again Chosen. For a long time I supported SPLC. They do have a history of protecting the underdog, so to speak. But then I found they also support the ACLU which I really have difficulty with. So no longer do I support SPLC.

How are you? How is the land of our faith surviving?

Good to hear from you. Even if sometimes it is hard emotionally to support a particular stance of these groups (for instance the Skokie case where the ACLU supported a neo Nazi march in an neighborhood populated mainly by Jewish holocaust survivors) they provide an important service to everyone. Even if you disagree with them it is important in a democracy to allow them to function. If you search you will find cases by the ACLU that I am sure you would support whole heartedly just as there are many cases where you would disagree with their side. As a Catholic you may want to consider that if two thousand years ago groups like the ACLU and SPLC existed, the way the trial of one Yehoshua Bar Yosef was conducted may have been very different.

 

[Aramis]

Actually, there was question of the validity of the episcopal ordinations; in the moto proprio excommunicating them, they are referred to exclusively as presbyters - priests - and not as bishops. I’ve seen no documents from HH John Paul II that refers to the four as Bishops. I’ve seen plenty from HH Benedict XVI that do refer to them as bishops…

It is a fair inference then that they did not agree on the validity of those ordinations.

 

[richard_wang]

I would recommend that anyone who is Catholic and supports the SPLC see what they say about anyone who is prolife and anti-homosexual. Makes for interesting reading.

splcenter.org/search/s-query.html?qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&ws=0&la=en&qm=0&st=1&nh=25&lk=1&rf=0&rq=0&si=0&ht=0&qp=&col=splcall&qt=%2Banti+abortion&x=32&y=8

splcenter.org/search/s-query.html?qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&ws=0&la=en&qm=0&st=1&nh=25&lk=1&rf=0&rq=0&si=0&ht=0&qp=&col=splcall&qt=%2Banti+gay&x=32&y=8

Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy thinking that I’m a potential domestic terrorist.

 

[pnewton]

I would recommend that anyone who is Catholic and supports the SPLC see what they say about anyone who is prolife and anti-homosexual. Makes for interesting reading.

I have seen way too much garbage from them to even trust them on simple matters. They are extremely prejudiced and deserve no special protection.

 

[Ottaviani]

Thank you for your explanation about the meaning of libel. It may come in very handy at work.

I too believe that groups like the SPLC should be protected to be able to expose religious, ethnic and racial prejudice. However that may just be “Jewish naturalism” talking.

wow, you’re just not getting it. The report was false and inflammatory, the report was LIBELOUS.

If you feel that falsity should be protected, you live in an upside down world.

 

[Contarini]

Has anyone come across the SPLC’s hatchet-job on the SSPX? While I am not a member of the SSPX, and attend the OF mass (mostly out of necessity - OF Parish is a block away from my house, whereas closest EF chapel is an hour away), the SPLC could at least get their facts straight, i.e., I highly doubt Abp. Lefebvre was as sympathetic to those who killed his father as the SPLC makes it appear (as just one example of the many inaccuracies in the article).

Wait a minute. You are claiming that the article is “inaccurate,” but you can’t actually give any examples beyond a speculative “I highly doubt.” You need to do better than that.

What specifically do they say that you know to be false?

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

His family was opposed to the Nazi regime. His father, in fact, died in a concentration camp for being a part of the French Resistance. I believe, actually, they were monarchists, not fascists.

The two are not mutually incompatible, unfortunately. Furthermore, people do sometimes disagree with their fathers. Is it true that Lefebvre “lamented” the Allied liberation of France, and supported the Vichy regime? This should be verifiable or falsifiable. Perhaps someone should email the SPLC and ask for their documentation of this, instead of jumping to the conclusion that they are committing libel.

I can see a bunch of ways in which the story might be a lot more nuanced than they are suggesting. And it’s possible that their claims are simply false. I’d welcome further information on the subject. But so far all I’m hearing is “this can’t be true because his father died in a concentration camp and the family were monarchists.” These are non sequiturs.

Clearly the SPLC has gotten the ecclesiastical situation wrong on several counts. But the bulk of their charge concerns anti-Semitism and support for the Vichy regime. I’d like to see these charges either supported or refuted.

Edwin