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savienu
Guest
I agree. It’s sentiments like that that lead to radical feminism.
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agmoose02
Guest
speaking from a man’s perspective, it is the feminine aspect that makes modest skirts appealing but the easy access thing does come into the thinking with mini skirts.
As for the spaghetti strap tops, the bra strap showing can be an issue in public. My wife will put a T shirt underneath or a cardigan or shear overshirt over spaghetti straps in public. This is worn with jeans or below the knee skirts. All of which are appealing but modest looks. That is something that is often overlooked, that a woman can dress in an appealing manner but still be modest. Same with spaghetti strap dresses or halter dresses and tops, she wears them for the form but still makes a point of covering her shoulders. About the only time she wears a spaghetti strap top without additional cover or shorts is around the house. I guess the point is that the modesty of spaghetti straps are dependent on how they are worn. And yes, a woman’s exposed shoulders can be very enticing to a man. It is hard to explain why, but it is just a fact.
As for the spaghetti strap tops, the bra strap showing can be an issue in public. My wife will put a T shirt underneath or a cardigan or shear overshirt over spaghetti straps in public. This is worn with jeans or below the knee skirts. All of which are appealing but modest looks. That is something that is often overlooked, that a woman can dress in an appealing manner but still be modest. Same with spaghetti strap dresses or halter dresses and tops, she wears them for the form but still makes a point of covering her shoulders. About the only time she wears a spaghetti strap top without additional cover or shorts is around the house. I guess the point is that the modesty of spaghetti straps are dependent on how they are worn. And yes, a woman’s exposed shoulders can be very enticing to a man. It is hard to explain why, but it is just a fact.
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
There are sexy jeans too… I know I have trouble finding jeans because a lot of them are sooo low (and although all of my belly/navel is covered, I like the jeans that sit below the waist, as long as they don’t show anything, just not very low jeans). Once I had to laugh because I grabbed a pair to try them on and didn’t notice that the zipper had like 5 teeth (the zipper was like 1/4 the size of a regular jean zipper). I think it was called “naughty navel” or something like that. Not to mention that some jeans have rips in strategic positions, and some are so tight they must have used vaseline to put the jeans on.
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
This reminds me of a girl from high school. We were all dressed up to go out and she was standing next to her mom. She was telling us (with her mom nodding beside her) how her mom taught her to “Make men suffer” by dressing in a way that “Makes them want her” but acting in a way that says “You can look but you can’t touch”.
What if the man doesn’t have self control (his fault) and doesn’t pay attention to the “can’t touch” part? I’m not saying that this is how rapes always occur or anything but I am pointing out that if some women are purposefully dressing to invite men to want to touch them, then it isn’t surprising that some messed up men will actually do it. Or even worse, grab another more accessible innocent girl to satisfy their lust.
Also, saying women have to be careful for how they dress is not saying they are to blame for rape. Ick, those monsters that rape are to blame for rape. Nevertheless, women dressing provocatively to be oggled at are contributing to the mentality that women are objects, and isn’t that part of the problem with rapists too? Using women as objects for their own pleasure or whatever sick satisfaction they get?
What if the man doesn’t have self control (his fault) and doesn’t pay attention to the “can’t touch” part? I’m not saying that this is how rapes always occur or anything but I am pointing out that if some women are purposefully dressing to invite men to want to touch them, then it isn’t surprising that some messed up men will actually do it. Or even worse, grab another more accessible innocent girl to satisfy their lust.
Also, saying women have to be careful for how they dress is not saying they are to blame for rape. Ick, those monsters that rape are to blame for rape. Nevertheless, women dressing provocatively to be oggled at are contributing to the mentality that women are objects, and isn’t that part of the problem with rapists too? Using women as objects for their own pleasure or whatever sick satisfaction they get?
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savienu
Guest
So, a woman’s partly to blame for her own rape. That’s great.
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
Where did I say that? There may be women that put themselves in a situation where there chances of getting raped are higher, but I never said a woman is always partly to blame for her own rape. In fact, a woman can be walking around naked and that does not give a man any right to rape her, nevertheless, she shouldn’t be walking around naked.So, a woman’s partly to blame for her own rape. That’s great.
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savienu
Guest
And I agree with you. However, saying that a woman portraying herself as a sex object sets her up to be raped is a slippery slope. I’ve heard of cases of men who rape these women making that argument in court and getting off scot-free!
We need to be careful of the comparisons we make. Sending the wrong message isn’t an open invitation to be raped.
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peregrinator_it
Guest
As a young woman living in a dangerous area, I have to say this is not only offensive, it’s bad advice.
The neighborhood that I live in is pretty rough, so I have some knowledge from which to speak.
Criminals are opportunists. It doesn’t matter who you are or how you dress; if you look like you might have something worth taking and/or you won’t give too much trouble, you may be looked at as a target. (By way of illustration, a couple months ago in my neighborhood, a group of priests and a nun were assaulted and robbed as they walked back to their lodgings from a local restaurant; criminals around here make no distinctions.)
For me, abiding by the standards of “modesty” quoted above would be extremely unwise.
I occasionally have to walk to/from the train station by myself after dark; it’s not very safe, but it’s unavoidable and will get more unavoidable as the days get shorter. If you are a woman walking alone in a situation like this you would be wise to wear clothes that you feel comfortable running and or fighting in (police safety tips will back me up on this) and that don’t have hanging bits that an attacker can use to hold you back or drag you. This does not include most skirts. You will only catch me out after dark wearing slacks/jeans and sneakers or “stout” (as the Brits say) shoes – for my own safety.
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Fran65
Guest
Here’s a thought.
You’re in an elevator. You’re so busy tutting over the immodest dress of another woman in the elevator that you don’t notice the button you pressed.
Lift going doooooooown…
Doors open - What’s that smell? What’s that heat? What’s that screaming? But I’m not in a bikini or spaghetti straps!!
Supporting each other and educating each other, Yes!
Judging others and telling them what to do? Hmmmm. Don’t think so.
God gave us freewill. That means, as I’ve said on a similar thread, we make our own choices in the light of our own conscience.
And no, that’s not moral relativism, that’s saying people have a choice, not that all choices are equally moral.
Karen
You’re in an elevator. You’re so busy tutting over the immodest dress of another woman in the elevator that you don’t notice the button you pressed.
Lift going doooooooown…
Doors open - What’s that smell? What’s that heat? What’s that screaming? But I’m not in a bikini or spaghetti straps!!
Supporting each other and educating each other, Yes!
Judging others and telling them what to do? Hmmmm. Don’t think so.
God gave us freewill. That means, as I’ve said on a similar thread, we make our own choices in the light of our own conscience.
And no, that’s not moral relativism, that’s saying people have a choice, not that all choices are equally moral.
Karen
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SeekerJen
Guest
They’re not always dressy, but we’ve got folks saying that they are indecent and never appropriate, so I wanted to give an example of a situation where they would be appropriate. Many formal gowns have spaghetti strap tops. These would not be appropriate for Mass due to the distraction factor, but if cut high on the back and across the front, might be just fine for an evening event.
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
You know, I am not sure about what the pp meant with that quote, but I still think the advice of dressing modestly is good regardless. In your case, a pair of comfortable modest jeans and a modest shirt that does not have hanging bits (and a good pair of sneakers like you said
) would be both modest and safer for you than other modest but not practical options.
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OSUbride0708
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Just curious, are my bridesmaid dresses considered immodest?http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v319/223/86/30101156/n30101156_33727764_5571.jpg
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Jennifer_J
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And I’ll repeat it on this thread-- Just because those of us with a more strict idea of modesty doesn’t mean we are OBSESSED. Nor do we point it out to someone we find dressed immodestly. this is a converstion on a board about modesty–therefore we are discussing it. I suppose we could discuss our favorite ice cream flavor, but that’s NOT THE TOPIC.
A conscience needs to be properly formed before it can be exercised…
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strngrnrth
Guest
I have no idea when or why strapless wedding outfits came into style, but I do think it’s inappropriate. I believe a wedding dress or bridesmaid’s dress should have either wide straps or, ideally, sleeves, should never expose cleavage, and should reach the mid-calf at the highest; it’s a wedding. It’s a time to dress up.
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lifeisbeautiful
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And I’ll repeat it on this thread-- Just because those of us with a more strict idea of modesty doesn’t mean we are OBSESSED. Nor do we point it out to someone we find dressed immodestly. this is a converstion on a board about modesty–therefore we are discussing it. I suppose we could discuss our favorite ice cream flavor, but that’s NOT THE TOPIC.
A conscience needs to be properly formed before it can be exercised…
Also, no one is saying that dressing modestly will keep you from being raped, there are too many tragic cases out there that prove otherwise.
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jmcrae
Guest
Rape is a completely different subject, and I agree with the person who said that, if you live in a dangerous area (and who doesn’t, these days?) it’s best to wear clothing and shoes that you can run and fight in.
Other tips for that are:
Other tips for that are:
- Walk confidently and quickly - the attitude you want to project is, “I know where I am going, and I am expected in a short while - I would be missed if I didn’t show up on time.”
- Look people straight in the eyes, and make sure you know how to describe them, should it become necessary. If someone seems out of place, speak to them casually - say something like, “You seem lost - is there something I can help you find?” That way, they know you have noticed them. (They might, in fact, just be lost.)
- Have your keys or coins handy, if the need arises to use them as a weapon.
- Have some training in self-defense, and remember the rule - scream, disable him, scream, run, scream, and tell or report. The louder you are, the less likely it is that he will stick around, which gives you more time to get out of there. Don’t be embarrassed to tell everyone about your experience, especially the police and others in authority.
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Truly_Beloved
Guest
I’m sorry, Hon, but I think they are inappropriate for Mass, too.
They are beautiful dresses, though.
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
This thread also reminds me of a common occurrence on college campuses. I was an RA and we were always asked to talk to girls about being clear in saying no if they wanted to say no (and this meant both physically and verbally), being careful with alcohol, etc. A guy decides he wants to “get lucky” that night. He goes out with his buddies (or have a party in their frat house or whatever) and scans the room for “easy” girls. “Easy” girls are usually easy to spot because of their immodest clothing and possibly immodesty in the way they act too. There are some girls that actually dress and act this way because they too wish to “get lucky” that night. Unfortunately I have met some. Anyways, it could happen that a girl that does not wish to partake in any innappropriate behavior does dress in an immodest way and some guys would consider that “false advertising”. Mix alcohol into the situation as it often occurs, and date rapes etc. And like savienu mentioned, some men have gotten off the hook in these kind of cases by blaming women. The policewoman I spoke with who had seen many of these cases on campus said the same thing, it is hard to prove the guy is guilty since it may seem to others that the girl was willing because of what the others see in the exterior etc and often the only result of a court case is a tarnished reputation for the girl.
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jmcrae
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There are times, also, when you could dress in the equivalent of a burlap sack and the drunk would claim that you were “trying to be sexy” - it is best to travel in a large group when going to a bar, don’t stay very long, and avoid the loud unruly drunks as much as possible. And never, ever, ever leave your drink unattended.
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Al_Masetti
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[Provocative title for a thread!]
But, anyway, doesn’t it depend on the design of the dress that the spaghetti straps are attached to?
But, anyway, doesn’t it depend on the design of the dress that the spaghetti straps are attached to?
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