Spanish inquisition

[kenofken]

The Inquisition leaves such a stain even today in large part because the Church in its institutional and individual capacities never owned up to the fact that horrible wrongs were committed by it. Like so many other things, it issues a corporate no-fault apology. “Mistakes were made.” Then we get the spin by historians acting as defense attorneys about how it really wasn’t such a bad thing and a dose of moral relativism (hey, we were involved with was not that bad, considering the times." It’s one thing to point out that historical truths are more complex than pop culture portrayals, but on the other hand, treating it as if it were a defensible act sends the message that the Church is not sorry at all that it happened, just sorry that the truth got out. These things reinforce the perception among us in the non-Catholic world that the Church never really had a fundamental change of heart and that it would go back to the old ways of doing business by dawn tomorrow if they had the secular power to do it.

 

[Petergee]

The Inquisition leaves such a stain even today in large part because the Church in its institutional and individual capacities never owned up to the fact that horrible wrongs were committed by it. Like so many other things, it issues a corporate no-fault apology. “Mistakes were made.”

Really? Ok if as you claim this is a “fact”, then you should be able to cite examples of these supposed “horrible wrongs committed by” the Church Inquisitions, other than the occasional mistake or corruupt judge.

Then we get the spin by historians acting as defense attorneys about how it really wasn’t such a bad thing

You’ve been so blinded by the spin of the Black Legend that when someone states the factual truth, you mistake it for “spin”.

and a dose of moral relativism (hey, we were involved with was not that bad, considering the times."

Nobody here has said that. Morality does not change from century to century.

It’s one thing to point out that historical truths are more complex than pop culture portrayals, but on the other hand, treating it as if it were a defensible act sends the message that the Church is not sorry at all that it happened,

The Church’s Inquisitions are eminently defensible and I certainly am not sorry for them, and neither is the Catholic Church sorry for them. If similar situations were to arise in future I certainly hope and trust that the Church would again set up in quisitions.

just sorry that the truth got out.

No, we are sorry that the Black Legend got out, and even sorrier that people like you still gullibly accept the Legend as truth. We are doing our best to get out the truth about the Inquisitions.

These things reinforce the perception among us in the non-Catholic world that the Church never really had a fundamental change of heart and that it would go back to the old ways of doing business by dawn tomorrow if they had the secular power to do it.

Certainly and thank God that this is so and that Christ has guaranteed that the Holy Spirit will always ensure that the Church will never have a fundamental change of heart.

 

[kenofken]

Really? Ok if as you claim this is a “fact”, then you should be able to cite examples of these supposed “horrible wrongs committed by” the Church Inquisitions, other than the occasional mistake or corruupt judge. You’ve been so blinded by the spin of the Black Legend that when someone states the factual truth, you mistake it for “spin”. Nobody here has said that. Morality does not change from century to century. The Church’s Inquisitions are eminently defensible and I certainly am not sorry for them, and neither is the Catholic Church sorry for them. If similar situations were to arise in future I certainly hope and trust that the Church would again set up in quisitions.No, we are sorry that the Black Legend got out, and even sorrier that people like you still gullibly accept the Legend as truth. We are doing our best to get out the truth about the Inquisitions.

Certainly and thank God that this is so and that Christ has guaranteed that the Holy Spirit will always ensure that the Church will never have a fundamental change of heart.

Evidently I’m not the only one taken in by the “myth” of the Inquisition’s excesses. No less a figure than Pope John Paul fell for it. Otherwise why would he have issued at least two apologies for “errors committed in the service of truth through use of methods that had nothing to do with the Gospel” ?

I have no doubt that the instincts behind the inquisition are still in place, but those who learn from history never fall for the same trick twice. Taking a page from the Jews and Israel, we will never again be caught unawares, or unarmed, and we will not go quietly.

 

[Petergee]

Evidently I’m not the only one taken in by the “myth” of the Inquisition’s excesses. No less a figure than Pope John Paul fell for it. Otherwise why would he have issued at least two apologies for “errors committed in the service of truth through use of methods that had nothing to do with the Gospel” ?

Exactly as I said earlier, he “apologised” (actually he expressed his sorrow, he did not and could not “apologise” for something over which he had had no control) for errors which some staff of the inquisitions and other people “in the service of truth” committed. He did **not **apologise for the Inquisitions, he did not say inquisitions were a bad thing or a bad idea, he did not say that the Church will not use inquisitions again. He did not deny that as a Catholic he is proud of the Church’s Inquisitions and the myriad ways in which they have made the world a better place.

I have no doubt that the instincts behind the inquisition are still in place, but those who learn from history never fall for the same trick twice. Taking a page from the Jews and Israel, we will never again be caught unawares, or unarmed, and we will not go quietly.

Instead of, as I challenged you to do, producing any examples of the supposed “horrible wrongs” of the Inquisitions, you do nothing but retort “you’re just like Hitler and the Nazis!”
According to Godwin’s Law you have now automatically lost the argument, and your comparison of the Catholic Inquisitions with Nazi genocide is extremely offensive and utterly, totally false.
And who are “we”?

 

[Prieldedi]

Is there any good reading material on the subject? Perhaps in the vein of “Victory
of Reason” or Richard Stark’s treatment of the crusades?

I’ve read the following books by William Thomas Walsh (September 11, 1891 - January 22, 1949):

Isabella of Spain: The Last Crusader (1451-1504), published in 1930.

Characters Of The Inquisition, published in 1940.

I recommend you to read the “Customer Reviews” at their respective Amazon.com pages. Both books are in stock.

 

[Cruxis117]

How can we take pride in this. If the Inquisition was still in place, I’d be dead! I’m an avid supporter of both gay marriage and evolution, two things contradictory to catholic teachings. Back during that time, that was considered blasphemy and I would already have been burned by the inquistors. Your just kidding yourself if you think it was fair and we should take pride in it.

Sadly, you’re very mistaken. While yes, gay marriage is contradictory to Catholic Teachings, Evolution is not. I’ve gone through the thread, and it shows that you’ve ignored many of the facts that have been explained to show that the “Inquisition” was so greatly exaggerated it can hardly be taken seriously. If you wish to see a real Inquisition, please check out Calvin (the man who started the Calvinist theology) and his own Inquisition.
But to the point of my post, Evolution is not contradictory to Catholic Teaching.

 

[Prieldedi]

How can we take pride in this. If the Inquisition was still in place, I’d be dead! I’m an avid supporter of both gay marriage and evolution, two things contradictory to catholic teachings. Back during that time, that was considered blasphemy and I would already have been burned by the inquistors. Your just kidding yourself if you think it was fair and we should take pride in it.

If you were born back in that time, the two issues you mention were no issues at all, no one would’ve burn you, they didn’t exist. No one thought of evolution nor gay marriages back then. In other words, you were SAFE concerning those two issues.

Today evolution is accepted as a possible way God implemented His plan for Creation. Believing in it is not a blasphemy as God would still be behind it. Gay marriage is rejected by the Church for its sinful nature. The Church is not going to burn no one for that either, it just follows the teachings of both, the Old and the New Testament concerning homosexuality.

Heresy is a totally different issue. In those days the most important fact of life for Christians was the saving of one’s soul. If someone threatened the salvation of souls, society as a whole demanded from the authorities protection, much in the same way today’s society demand from authorities protection when harm is coming to us. Heresy was a threat to society then, just as drug trafficking is a threat to society today.

We should not judge our ancestors using our 21st Century frame of mind. In many respects, they had a better world then than the one we have today.

 

[hosemonkey]

How can we take pride in this. If the Inquisition was still in place, I’d be dead! I’m an avid supporter of both gay marriage and evolution, two things contradictory to catholic teachings. Back during that time, that was considered blasphemy and I would already have been burned by the inquistors. Your just kidding yourself if you think it was fair and we should take pride in it.

You need to take a hard look at your signature. “A Catholic that doesn’t ignore facts.” Indeed. I must assume that you are applying the term “Catholic” very loosely in your case?

 

[Petergee]

You need to take a hard look at your signature. “A Catholic that doesn’t ignore facts.” Indeed. I must assume that you are applying the term “Catholic” very loosely in your case?

And ditto the term “facts”.