Spanking in Brazil

[Corki]

Despite posting the link I do have to admit to being very wary of corporeal punishment for children. I’m not familiar with the practice of ‘spare the rod and spoil the child’, I assume it’s more based on praising good works?

-Prophecy

No, that’s not what it means. It’s in the Bible (Proverbs, I think). It loses something when quoted out of contexts. It means IF you spare the rod, you will end up with a spoiled child.

 

[cyberwolf001]

Despite posting the link I do have to admit to being very wary of corporeal punishment for children. I’m not familiar with the practice of ‘spare the rod and spoil the child’, I assume it’s more based on praising good works?

-Prophecy

I am shocked no one has heard of this as it often is used to JUSTIFY spanking especially by Christians. It means if you spare the rod the child will become spoiled. This often taken to mean literally if you do not use spanking (sometimes using an actual rod) as your one and only method of discipline (combined with lectures and other punishments) the child will become spoiled.

 

[cyberwolf001]

No, that’s not what it means. It’s in the Bible (Proverbs, I think). It loses something when quoted out of contexts. It means IF you spare the rod, you will end up with a spoiled child.

It is often attributed to the Bible but is actually from a poem written by Samuel Butler. There are many verses in Proverbs that say essentially the same thing however.

13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
19:18 Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

 

[teachccd]

Been reading your posts. You seem to draw no differences between spanking and hitting…kind of lumping everything together, and If I’m wrong please clarify. So if your child was going to stick their finger in an electric socket, and you slapped their hand and said “NO”, is that “hitting” (by your definition)?

I would say that spanking is one of a number of possible punishments that should be available to parents. I have two children in high school, with one being #1 in his class, and the other being in the top 5%. I have no discipline issues with either kids, and both are happy, well-adjusted, and good natured. I have used spanking as an option, probably having only spanked them a total of 5 or 6 times over their life. I have also used other forms of punishment including grounding, taking privileges away among other things.

I know the difference between spanking and beating, between a swat on the behind, and a fist upside the head. I certainly hope you are not lumping everything together. I’m glad your children are fine, and I hope you would be glad mine are fine too. Every child is different and as such respond differently to different kinds of punishments. Some kids (like me) never changed their behavior due to spanking, while others (my kids) absolutely changed their behavior due to a spanking. Bottom line, its up to the parents, and spanking should not be outlawed. Raise your children the way you see fit, and I will raise mine the way I see fit.

If you truly read my posts you would have noted that I stated that most of the time spanking is done in anger. If my child was going to stick their finger in an electric socket I would grab their wrist and say a firm “no”. Why would I need to slap his/her hand? If the child was too young they wouldn’t know why I slapped his/her hand in the first place and if the child is older then a proper scolding explaining the danger of the action would be in order. There really is no need to slap a hand, tug the hair, pinch under the arm. No, there is no need to inflict physical pain to discipline kids.

I can appreciate that you chose to spank your kids but I do not agree with your choice. I definitely know the difference between a slap and a beating but both are pointed to inflicting physical pain in different degrees.

If you never changed your behavior when you were spanked then how can you claim that it was the spanking that changed your childeren’s behavior? Perhaps it was those other forms of punishments that you mentioned that resulted in their proper formation.

Hitting a child is wrong, period. Call it a slight swat or sugar coat it with whatever verbiage you choose but spanking is hitting in various degrees. I did raise my children the way that I saw fit and it worked just fine. I will stand on the fact that if we cannot go around hitting (slapping, spanking or whatever you want to call it) adults then we should not be doing this to our kids. Again I will reiterate that I just could not envision Jesus spanking disobedient children. We are all God’s children and Jesus never spanked a soul. In fact when Peter cut off the soldier’s ear Jesus healed the man and told Peter how that was wrong.

People do not hit people and that is my final answer. You do not have to like that idea but I will stick with it and I will never give in to spanking a child. And if you are upset with me because I am against inflicting physical pain to children then that is something that you need to discern…teachccd

 

[Kindness]

My understanding of this issue is that extensive studies have shown that spanking is not effective. If the purpose of spanking is to improve a child’s behavior it has not been found to do so. Children who are spanked regularly are more likely to be physically violent to other children and be bullies. It make sense as you are showing literally that the way to solve problems is to be physically violent and to overpower people who are weaker than you.

 

[teachccd]

My understanding of this issue is that extensive studies have shown that spanking is not effective. If the purpose of spanking is to improve a child’s behavior it has not been found to do so. Children who are spanked regularly are more likely to be physically violent to other children and be bullies. It make sense as you are showing literally that the way to solve problems is to be physically violent and to overpower people who are weaker than you.

That’s how I see it…

 

[shockerfan]

If you truly read my posts you would have noted that I stated that most of the time spanking is done in anger. If my child was going to stick their finger in an electric socket I would grab their wrist and say a firm “no”. Why would I need to slap his/her hand? If the child was too young they wouldn’t know why I slapped his/her hand in the first place and if the child is older then a proper scolding explaining the danger of the action would be in order. There really is no need to slap a hand, tug the hair, pinch under the arm. No, there is no need to inflict physical pain to discipline kids.

I can appreciate that you chose to spank your kids but I do not agree with your choice. I definitely know the difference between a slap and a beating but both are pointed to inflicting physical pain in different degrees.

If you never changed your behavior when you were spanked then how can you claim that it was the spanking that changed your childeren’s behavior? Perhaps it was those other forms of punishments that you mentioned that resulted in their proper formation.

Hitting a child is wrong, period. Call it a slight swat or sugar coat it with whatever verbiage you choose but spanking is hitting in various degrees. I did raise my children the way that I saw fit and it worked just fine. I will stand on the fact that if we cannot go around hitting (slapping, spanking or whatever you want to call it) adults then we should not be doing this to our kids. Again I will reiterate that I just could not envision Jesus spanking disobedient children. We are all God’s children and Jesus never spanked a soul. In fact when Peter cut off the soldier’s ear Jesus healed the man and told Peter how that was wrong.

People do not hit people and that is my final answer. You do not have to like that idea but I will stick with it and I will never give in to spanking a child. And if you are upset with me because I am against inflicting physical pain to children then that is something that you need to discern…teachccd

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. My kids themselves will tell you they deserved the spankings they received and were glad I did it (although not at the time). And yes, the point of spanking is to inflict pain. I would rather children experience the minor pain of a spanking, as opposed to the major pain or death of a light socket, or running into traffic. Even when it is not a life or death situation, I would rather them feel the pain of a spanking than to think their behavior which needed correction, was acceptable. Again, spanking was just one of the tools available to me to make these points. Feel free to raise your children as you see fit, and let me raise mine as I see fit. After all, God made me my children’s father, let me do my job.

Regarding what would Jesus do: We as Catholic Christians believe in the Trinity. And since we believe in the Trinity, we believe that Jesus, as the second person of the Trinity, was always in existence. Thus the quotes from the old Testament regarding “spare the rod and spoil the child”, were in fact from God / The Trinity. So Jesus, in fact, agrees with the old testament statements, since he was a part of making them.

 

[Corki]

I did raise my children **the way that I saw fit **and it worked just fine.

That’s great. I am glad it worked for you. But since you are not the parent of everyone else’s children, the way you see fit and what their parents see fit might not be the same but might still work “just fine”.

People do not hit people and that is my final answer. You do not have to like that idea but I will stick with it and I will never give in to spanking a child.

Hitting a child is wrong, period.

Respectfully, why do you get the final answer? In real life, people do hit people - for legitimate reasons and for wrong ones. It is not always wrong to hit another person. I for one am glad that there is no one person, not even you teachccd, that gets the “final answer” in telling me how to raise my children.

Spanking is one of those aspects of parenting that is not always so cut and dried. For many parents, it would not or should not be part of their parenting approaches. For other parents, spanking might be an acceptable choice in specific circumstances.

 

[teachccd]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. My kids themselves will tell you they deserved the spankings they received and were glad I did it (although not at the time). And yes, the point of spanking is to inflict pain. I would rather children experience the minor pain of a spanking, as opposed to the major pain or death of a light socket, or running into traffic. Even when it is not a life or death situation, I would rather them feel the pain of a spanking than to think their behavior which needed correction, was acceptable. Again, spanking was just one of the tools available to me to make these points. Feel free to raise your children as you see fit, and let me raise mine as I see fit. After all, God made me my children’s father, let me do my job.

Regarding what would Jesus do: We as Catholic Christians believe in the Trinity. And since we believe in the Trinity, we believe that Jesus, as the second person of the Trinity, was always in existence. Thus the quotes from the old Testament regarding “spare the rod and spoil the child”, were in fact from God / The Trinity. So Jesus, in fact, agrees with the old testament statements, since he was a part of making them.

Yes, I disagree. I will not belabor the issue any further.

As for your exegesis of Scripture, no one can prove that the “rod” is a physical punishment. And any Scripture scholar would agree that what was foreshadowed in the Old Testament was fulfilled in Chirst. Remember the response that Jesus gave for the Old Testament rendering of “an eye for an eye”? See Matthew 5:38-42. Was this not the same Jesus of the Blessed Trinity?

 

[shockerfan]

Yes, I disagree. I will not belabor the issue any further.

As for your exegesis of Scripture, no one can prove that the “rod” is a physical punishment. And any Scripture scholar would agree that what was foreshadowed in the Old Testament was fulfilled in Chirst. Remember the response that Jesus gave for the Old Testament rendering of “an eye for an eye”? See Matthew 5:38-42. Was this not the same Jesus of the Blessed Trinity?

You can jump thru mental hoops to say “spare the rod” does not mean physical punishment, although, just what does a person do with a rod in that context? I highly doubt that the “rod” referred to “timeout” or “suspension from playing with a Nintendo”.

I honest don’t see how the foreshadowing of Christ in the O.T. somehow means that he didn’t say what he said in the OT.

Also, just how does the “eye for an eye” quote of the N.T. relate to this debate? That quote was about retaliation, not child rearing. It just appears you are picking and choosing your bible quotes.

 

[teachccd]

You can jump thru mental hoops to say “spare the rod” does not mean physical punishment, although, just what does a person do with a rod in that context? I highly doubt that the “rod” referred to “timeout” or “suspension from playing with a Nintendo”.

I honest don’t see how the foreshadowing of Christ in the O.T. somehow means that he didn’t say what he said in the OT.

Also, just how does the “eye for an eye” quote of the N.T. relate to this debate? That quote was about retaliation, not child rearing. It just appears you are picking and choosing your bible quotes.

The bible quote was merely to show how Jesus took what was said in the Old Testament ( could be any topic) and fulfilled it in the New Testament. There are other examples of this…Anyway…

Ok,you win! I still disagree but to discuss further seems futile…Peace be with you…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

That’s great. I am glad it worked for you. But since you are not the parent of everyone else’s children, the way you see fit and what their parents see fit might not be the same but might still work “just fine”.

Respectfully, why do you get the final answer? In real life, people do hit people - for legitimate reasons and for wrong ones. It is not always wrong to hit another person. I for one am glad that there is no one person, not even you teachccd, that gets the “final answer” in telling me how to raise my children.

Spanking is one of those aspects of parenting that is not always so cut and dried. For many parents, it would not or should not be part of their parenting approaches. For other parents, spanking might be an acceptable choice in specific circumstances.

Why is that my final answer? Because that is MY final answer! I never said that it had to be followed by all. Anti-abortion is my final answer but I am sure that there are those who would counter that as well.

Yes in real life people do hit people. And from that reason it is justified? I cannot tell you how to raise your kids and I would never try to do such a thing. But I can still uphold that hitting children is not necessary and uncalled for. That is MY opinion and if you want to strike your kids and you feel that that is what works then there is not a whole lot that I can tell you.

I am not a woman who got caught in an unwanted pregnancy but I can still hold that abortion is murder. There will be those pro-choice folks who will present the same argument that you did. Different meaures for different situations… Maybe for some girl abortion might be the right thing to do… Really? I think not and if you are Catholic you should think not as well. And I know that many will say," how can he compare spanking to abortion/" Well to those who cannot see analogies for what they are, I am not making a comparison of actions but a comparison of decision making.

Finally, outside of spanking children, can you give me those instances when hitting other people is ok? You mentioned that it is not always wrong to hit another person. Can you give me specific situations where it would be alright for me to hit another person outside of spanking?..teachccd

 

[ac_claire]

My understanding of this issue is that extensive studies have shown that spanking is not effective. If the purpose of spanking is to improve a child’s behavior it has not been found to do so. Children who are spanked regularly are more likely to be physically violent to other children and be bullies. It make sense as you are showing literally that the way to solve problems is to be physically violent and to overpower people who are weaker than you.

There are just as many extensive studies out there that show spanking to be an effective discipline tool, and show links between corporal punishment and future success, etc. That’s the thing with studies.

I believe that spankings have their time and their place. Yes, of course they shouldn’t be done in anger and yes I believe if the child is old enough to understand, s/he should be told why they’re being punished and what they can do to avoid it in the future. It would never be a first resort-- a spanking should always be preceded by a warning. And yes, it should hurt. The pain is the point. Sin and disobedience = pain. This is one of the ways that my husband and I have chosen to discipline our kids. If all goes well enough, we may not ever even need to use it! But if we do, we will.

It worked just fine in my family, btw. None of us were “abused” and we were all spanked a LOT more than I ever plan to spank my own kids.