Speak Out against Canada Persecution Plans

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chipusa:
I don’t mean to sound confrontational, but aren’t we supposed to be rejoicing over something like this? Understand, I’m not implying we shouldn’t be concerned to a point, and discuss it, but at the same time we need to realize that what Christ said about the world hating us is coming to pass more and more. I kind of get a kick inside about things like this and thank God that I am His and my faith will be rebuked. Oh well, just my take. God bless and keep all of you and may our Blessed Mother smile on you. 👍
Sure, all that about how all things work for the good of those who believe?

People have such a rough time letting go of judging everything. I’m a bit like that myself but I’m recovering. Sigh.

Alan
 
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reen12:
Two days ago, I told someone that it’s possibly only

a matter of time before statements of religious belief
will be considered “hate speech.”

Well, well.

I guess you’d have to be a cigarette smoker, to grasp
how “society” can decide to “demonize” an activity
that was once considered simply a “bad habit.”
The question is, who gets to decide what constitutes
the “common good.”?

Consider. You can get a police escort, to go to
have an abortion, but if, after the aborition, you
light up a cigarette in the lobby, you can be fined
by the same officers who escorted you in.

I’m not defending smoking *, but I
simply point out that the “right” was established, that
the “common good” can be used as a “lever”
to marginalize 25 million people. [smokers]

It’s the same in the case of the article, referrenced above.*

So all who rejoice and take satisfaction in seeing
smokers, freezing in January, outside an office
building, might ponder the *real *cost of their sense
of superiority.

“Society” came after me and my cigarettes, and
people said nothing, and even rejoiced.
Now, “society” may be coming after those with
religious beliefs and who will stop it? After all,
it’s for the “common good”, right?

And* who* decides what the “common good” is?

reen12

I know you guys will openly disagree and call it off topic but it will only prove my point. society is coming after skaters. And i dont mean the ones who break business windows and hit people. I mean the ones who are trying to have a good time. And nobody cares. Its so easy to say go get them to make a park, my friends did that, but if you skated you would understand.
 
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chipusa:
I don’t mean to sound confrontational, but aren’t we supposed to be rejoicing over something like this? Understand, I’m not implying we shouldn’t be concerned to a point, and discuss it, but at the same time we need to realize that what Christ said about the world hating us is coming to pass more and more. I kind of get a kick inside about things like this and thank God that I am His and my faith will be rebuked. Oh well, just my take. God bless and keep all of you and may our Blessed Mother smile on you. 👍
I’m with you on this one. Are we not called “The Church Militant?” Obviously, we were too comfortable over here in North America because we thought we could practice a “suburban Catholicsm” as Hillaire Belloc called it. But not anymore, now is the time to call all soldiers to duty because the war is on,and no one can sit on the sidelines anymore and hope that someone else takes up the fight. I truly believe that God is allowing this to happen so that His Church will wake up from its slumber and return to fighting form. It’s getting to be impossible to stay silent now.The sentiment expressed in that article was chilling, but in a strange sense invigorating because if he thinks that we’re going to take this lying down, he has another thing coming. What he wrote are “fightin’ words,” which can only serve to galvanize the troops. Where under intense white martyrdom now, and it’s only going to get worse. Yet, this time will serve as an opportunity to produce great sense who will heroically battle the darkness that is quickly descending over the land…
 
Well, I’m not particularly hopeful on this.

It’s a tactic.

Raise an idea. Howls follow. Some think it must be a
joke. Raise the idea again, in a *different *venue. More howls. More: They must be kidding!

Possibly, TV commentators start saying: “Some think
that “religious hate speech” is a long overdo idea…”
And there it is…in the public arena, big time.
I call it the "Some think…"ploy.

It’s not that people get “comfortable” with the proposed
idea…they just get less “uncomfortable.” I mean, if it’s
on TV or radio…maybe it’s just me who’s howling…etc.
What I hold is made to seem “unreasonable”.

Just my thought.

reen12
 
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2shelbys:
All you have to do to get rid of them is require truth in political advertising like we do in other advertising.
:bowdown: That is the greatest point anyone has ever made.
 
May I suggest that we look for Christian/Judaic
teaching to be called “divisive” “unfair” 'label-ing people"
"…speech that should not be protected by the first amendment…"etc. "‘against the “common good.”’

Look for this to be part of TV segments that start with:
“Some people think that…”
–cut to interviews with the people who presented the idea
of “religious hate speech” in different venues?

Expect some commentators to look “thoughtful”, and
even egg these “interview-ees” on…sympathetically.

Possible follow up interview with psychiatrist, asking:

“Doctor, in your professional experience, what effect
does religious education have on a child…in terms of
divisiveness? Is it healthy, psychologically, to raise
children with these “sterotypes” of good and bad?”

Psychiatrist answers. [Psychiatrist would possibly
be chosen for his/her antipathy toward religious belief?]

Then, journalist asks:

“What do you think should be *done *to protect children
from this type of exploitation?” [egging on behavior…]
“religious hate speech” = done]

I hope I’m wrong. I doubt it. I’ve watched the
“Some people think…” ploy for 30 years on TV.
I could write the scripts, for heaven’s sake.

reen12
 
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2shelbys:
Well, not really. What about the laws in Quebec requiring businesses who want to post signs in English to keep those signs at no more than half the size of their French signs?
Yes, Bill 101 and its successors.

I’m not sure if you’re saying that Quebec has the same culture as the rest of the country, I would certainly argue it does not.
Quebec was abandoned by its mother. France turned its back on Quebec and let the British have control, a famous French philosopher saying at the time to forget about Canada since it was merely “quelques pentes de neige”. - A few snowbanks - The least courtesy he could have paid them would have been “a few Million snowbanks.”

…Another personal observation, as I do have American friends. Just opinion again. I said initially the American may not be as accepting to a group as the Canadian. But, deeper into a relationship at the personal level, you will more often find the exact reverse to be true. I don’t mean to sound judgemental, just calling it how I’ve seen it my friend.
 
I don’t mean to sound judgemental, just calling it how I’ve seen it my friend.
No problem, I didn’t take it as judgemental because the overall tone of your post was just fine, and I’m sure you are far more versed in relation to Canadain issues than I am. An interesting side note:

I was listening to the radio today and the discussion was about how socialized medical care absolutely destroys the level of care received. A doctor called in and was describing a new program that teaches doctors how to remove themselves from the goverment mangled mess of health care and return to a truly private practice where competition for business drives the prices way down. One example given was lasik surgery which, since it is not covered by insurance has come down in price from $5,000 a few years ago to well under $1000 now. The tie in is that the doctor asked if the host knew the only three countries on Earth where private-practice medicine has been outlawed…he guessed Cuba, North Korea, and China. Two out of three is ok, but the answer is Cuba, North Korea, and CANADA. Not good company for Canada to be in.
 
I read the article and it’s disgusting. We need a Catholic Country, with a Catholic government. Then we could all be refugees from so called free countries like Canada and move there. Alas, the world is worse than ever. I’d rather live in the Middle Ages than right now. I mean, the laws are only the last sign…try dating in modern society, you’re lucky if you can find someone who doesn’t want to get you in bed on first sight and who won’t dump you if you don’t. You can’t even simply look at a magazine anymore or a billboard without seeing pornography. It starts with the ‘small’ stuff and goes right on up…I think it’s inevitable almost. Especially with the state the Church has been in for the past couple of decades it’s hard not to say too little too late. I love it when people say ‘look how much damage Christianity has done’ and talk about the crusades and such…I just wanna say right back to em, look what secularism (nationalism) has done and point to the Holocaust, the French Revolution with it’s guillotine, and the World Wars and right on up til today.
 
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2shelbys:
I was listening to the radio today and the discussion was about how socialized medical care absolutely destroys the level of care received. A doctor called in and was describing a new program that teaches doctors how to remove themselves from the goverment mangled mess of health care and return to a truly private practice where competition for business drives the prices way down. One example given was lasik surgery which, since it is not covered by insurance has come down in price from $5,000 a few years ago to well under $1000 now. The tie in is that the doctor asked if the host knew the only three countries on Earth where private-practice medicine has been outlawed…he guessed Cuba, North Korea, and China. Two out of three is ok, but the answer is Cuba, North Korea, and CANADA. Not good company for Canada to be in.
Your posts indicate interest in Canada. Notice too, Bush just upgraded his Canadian ambassador.

Medicare is a broad issue. First step back:

With any American policy, Canada usually advocates the opposite.

Partly because of the United Empire Loyalists descendants.

Partly because until recently, Canada has been a very homogeneous society and has yet to deal with race issues, sitting on a moral high horse of liberal inclusiveness in general. (The French/Aboriginal portfolio has been trivial compared to yours)

Partly because a little person is defensive and says to a bigger person “don’t tell me what to do you big bully even if it makes sense.”

So the liberals play the anti-Americanism card continually, and it keeps them in power. The conservatives simply never do.

There is privatization in our medical system and it is increasing. The federal Liberal government will deny, minimize and discourage "the Americanization of Medicare”, but health care is a provincial jurisdiction. The provinces run it with less idealism. Just ask the unions if they think there’s privatization in the health care system.cupe.ca/updir/HCInventory-Revised-APRIL_Version2004.pdf

The government medical insurance covers us to a certain level. Beyond that, you need private insurance. But the list of publicly covered items is shrinking.

Hospitals are funded an allocation by the government and are left to run as they see fit, with broad guidelines. The unions, and greedy hospital management are eating away at their allocations. So there is pressure to continue outsourcing to private labs and tests. Or just cut the service.

Nursing homes are a combination of private and public funding with publicly funded ones looking at seniors’ personal income tax receipts.

All dentists, all optometrists, and increasingly medications, are paid for privately or through private insurance. (Most established medications are covered.)

Lasik surgery isn’t covered here under the public health coverage. The pricing structure is exactly as yours, from $5k a few years ago down to $1k. As of this year, eye exams are no longer covered here in Ontario except for children and seniors.

Family doctor practices bill the government individually and directly. Their union (“association”) is very powerful.

We increasingly see doctors from India and Pakistan when we are sick. They are financially motivated otherwise they would be serving in their homelands.

I would not say it’s a terrible system. On the other hand, stay healthy and avoid it. And, if you get really sick, go to the US for treatment where waiting times are much less, accountability is greater, and your chances of proper care are much higher.

I am curious about the American system. How much would insurance cost for say a healthy 30, 40, or 50 year old? Are there different levels? How many employers pay this? How many have no coverage?
 
Lost&Found,

An excellent and very informative post. Thank you. My interest in the politics of Canada is rooted in my hope that the USA avoids heading in the same direction that Canada has in many ways. It’s good to see that not everyone up there is happy about it.
I am curious about the American system. How much would insurance cost for say a healthy 30, 40, or 50 year old? Are there different levels? How many employers pay this? How many have no coverage?
Insurance here is all over the park. I would say it is expensive but that is a relative term. I can see any doctor or specialist any time I want to for any reason. That is valuable. Most employers of more than a dozen or so employees offer some kind of health insurance. How much of the cost they cover is entirely up to them. Back when I sold cars the dealership offered insurance that would have cost $165 per week for myself and my wife. The management got free insurance that the employees paid for (but very few of them knew they paid for it). Not a good deal. My wife works for the government and we got a much better plan for way less than half the cost. A very good deal. There are many different kinds of coverage. You can get “Major Medical” that only covers “major” things like operations or severe injuries and nothing else. You can also get plans that cover everything from dental to vision to prescriptions and everything else. It all depends on what you need and how much you are willing to spend for it. The bottom line on price is, if we could get the government out of the way and ship all of our tort lawyers to the moon, everything would be affordable.
 
Shelby:

Wow that’s a whole different world. It’s really tricky to compare the two systems because it goes beyond medicare. It’s linked to the rest of our infrastructure which is deeply entrenched. Here it’s the dealership who is treated with less regard in general by the government.

Here the guy washing the cars is going to get about the same medical treatment as the manager. The difference would be the person’s ambition to fight for better treatment. So for instance letting the doctor know that you will be getting a second opinion and working the system and so on. (Forget about suing the doctor, you will lose). Most stuff is covered but newer medicines aren’t on the approved list yet. Lobby groups try to get them on the list. Or one hospital has had a CT scanner for years, whereas one in a smaller centre still doesn’t. Government might patch this with travel grants. Or suppose the Operating Rooms are all booked and your life depends on it. You might even get the gov to pay to have it done in the US. There are tons of doctors who finish their very subsidized training here and leave to the US for the better pay. Obviously the most talented ones.
Then you have the dealership owner. If it’s a bigger dealership he says “I ain’t dickin around here” and goes straight to the US.

So if I have a straightforward case Canada will do; if it’s a little trickier, try to get into the better hospital because some of them are pretty good in their specialty. And if you’re rich, by-pass it all and go to the US for the best clinics and doctors.

There’s not a lot of tort stuff because it’s only the government who covers all but the distinct areas mentioned in my first post.
The trend for sure at the moment is deterioration of the system not improvement. They know it cannot last and are looking at their options, which include more privatization.
Some of the Oriental countries have the advantage of starting from scratch, newer infrastructures, and have systems far superior to ours.
 
ok, i have basicly 2 words for you on the subject of persecution.

1: Crusades
2: Karma

now i expect that the admins will probly ban be or similar for saying this, however you should probably think about how that will reflect upon you should you do so.

as for how this “persecution” is such an evil act, how many of you will it kill? how many of your houses will is burn to the ground? how many cities will it destroy?

more to the point how many people will be able to live their lives in the manner THEY CHOOSE without fear unnacepting people running camaigns against their way of life.

these laws proposed do not stop change or limit the way you live your life, they only limit the amount of damage you can inflict on other people by openly expressing your views often backed up with the mob mentality last seen in the times of christ, when such mob mentality led to his crucifiction.

the same is applied to whoever was complaining about the persecution of smokers, the law does not stop you harming yourself, only reduces the harm you commit to others in your proximity.
 
Hi Novex and welcome to our Catholic forums.

It’s going to take a heck of a lot more than that to get banned. Those subjects have been debated at great length. You should start by doing a site search on them. Either post to an existing thread, revive and old one or start a new one. Also make use of the extensive library here.

Good luck in your quest for the truth. You will find it here.
 
ahh, good to see that forums are the same the world over no matter what topic, anyone new to a forum is told to go read all the search resluts when making a response to a specific post.

if there are so many discussions on this topic then why was it brought up in teh first place? and why was the only view disagreeing with it told to go search for all the stuff whereas everyone else just get mindless support ?
 
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novex:
ahh, good to see that forums are the same the world over no matter what topic, anyone new to a forum is told to go read all the search resluts when making a response to a specific post.

if there are so many discussions on this topic then why was it brought up in teh first place? and why was the only view disagreeing with it told to go search for all the stuff whereas everyone else just get mindless support ?
http://home.houston.rr.com/mchance3/rolleyes.gif

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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novex:
ahh, good to see that forums are the same the world over no matter what topic, anyone new to a forum is told to go read all the search resluts when making a response to a specific post.

if there are so many discussions on this topic then why was it brought up in teh first place? and why was the only view disagreeing with it told to go search for all the stuff whereas everyone else just get mindless support ?
Novex: relax. I’m worried the mods will close this thread because Shelby and I have steered it right off course to a discussion on medicare. Before that it was off course too. If you want to talk about the crusades do a search on that. Same with Karma. And I didn’t think the rest of your comments were necessarily specific to the topic either. So I’m just saying do your homework. Sorry I can’t argue but I’m off to Mass, take care.
 
I’m worried the mods will close this thread because Shelby and I have steered it right off course to a discussion on medicare.
Oops, you are right about that. Don’t you hate when that happens?
 
There has been sentiment expressed in this thread that somehow (because of the Crusades, etc. etc.) that Catholics deserve this upcoming persecution, etc., and that it is our “karma” debt to be repaid.

To those who feel that way, note this:

FAITHFUL Catholics will obey GOD rather than MEN, and will proclaim the gospel’s moral standards no matter what the Law says and no matter WHAT the consequences. We simply will not obey any law that tells us to shut up about God’s truth as revealed in scripture and tradition. Only cowards and apostates will obey such laws.

Jaypeeto2
 
Nice recovery JayPeeto2.
Please stay on topic people. Karma and the Crusades are irrelevent opinions, as is medicare.
This thread is now reprieved. :cool:
 
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