Speak Up or Shut Up?

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Perhaps it turned into a rude situation…I don’t know, but I do know that we do need to learn to stand up for our faith by being the most loving, kind, respectful people on earth. St. Francis gave us a wonderful example of courtesy and won peoples’ hearts and souls. Somewhere between speak up and shut up, we must become so holy people want to listen. Rude or not, I for one am glad you had the courage at least to want to defend faith. Thank you…so many are sooooo silent it hurts. 🤷
 
Wardog said:
I disagree. If someone in my hearing made a racist or sexist statement, I would not stay quiet.
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Demanding an apology is light years away from
a simply stated “I disgree with your opinion.”
 
AnnaAnna said:
Perhaps it turned into a rude situation…I don’t know, but I do know that we do need to learn to stand up for our faith by being the most loving, kind, respectful people on earth. St. Francis gave us a wonderful example of courtesy and won peoples’ hearts and souls. Somewhere between speak up and shut up, we must become so holy people want to listen. Rude or not, I for one am glad you had the courage at least to want to defend faith. Thank you…so many are sooooo silent it hurts. 🤷
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It clearly did turn into a rude situation. That itself is very troubling.

It’s wonderful to defend the faith.
It’s not wonderful to instigate religious wars
in a lunchroom or cafeteria or corporate dining room.

To insist that another apologize to you is beyond the pale.
Simply state your disagreement - then turn the other cheek.

As St. Francis said:
“Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.”
 
Soldier_Of_God said:
Greetings All,

I’m in a bit of a quandary. I’m personally debating how badly I stepped out of line at work. During lunch today, a friend and I were having having a meal in the cafeteria and we were approached by a ranking officer of the company. My friend is an obviously religious and devout Orthodox Jew and everyone at the company aware of this. As my friend travelled to Israel, he was asked by this ranking officer what places would be good to visit. My companion said that Jerusalem was a wonderful place to visit because it contains historical elements for 3 major religions. The person responded (and I’m paraphrasinng here):

I’m not religious. I don’t believe any of that non-sense. Religion is the cause of all wars.
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This is the point where I just would have ignored him. IMOHO, from the rest of your post, he sounds condescending and bitter on top of that. At work, I wouldn’t have engaged such a person at all, especially a ranking officer.
Soldier_Of_God said:
I guess I was being a touchy because I asked if he can provide the evidence for his comment because I found what he said to be quite disparaging to religious people. I cited that the according to the Encyclopedia of Wars, only 7% of wars are religious based. To which he responded that is also non-sense and that ‘eveyone knows religion causes all wars.’ Of course, the situation degenerated from there and we exchanged a number of comments with each other.

I did ask for him to apologize for his improper blanket statement, to which he refused. Unfortunately, I wasn’t successful in diffusing the situation and I couldn’t convince him that such statements are offensive to religious people. Now, I’m debating about going to the human resources department because this isn’t the first time this sort of statement has been presented by him. I wanted to make a stand as I’m tired of keeping silent when people (especially ranking officers) denigrate religion and Christianity openly at work.

Any advice would be appreciated.
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Well, IMOHO I think it was a bit inappropriate for you to ask a ‘ranking officer’ to apologize because as a lower ranking person in the chain, it wasn’t your place. I wouldn’t go to the human resources department unless he started harassing me. But then again, under normal cirumcstances I wouldn’t have let the situation escalate. We all have our weaknesses, and our weak moments. I almost tore off the head of a fellow nurse for claiming that “Catholic’s have it all wrong. For example, they worship Mary and worship the saints”. Boy did she get a really big mouthful in a relatively short few seconds 😃 But – she is not a ‘ranking officer’. After her face fell from my mini-tirade, I concluded with: “Well, I’m glad I had the opportunity to straighten out that mess…but I’m thinking that’s why generally we don’t talk about religion and politics at work”.

I find that people who are anti-religion and who push the buttons of people of faith, they do so for shock value, and I just don’t entertain them. 🤷

I would pray to St. Michael before you go to work, and ask him to protect you from this person. And I would just stay under this person’s radar. But that’s just me. I think if you go to human resources, you’ll either both get reprimanded for arguing in the workplace or he will retaliate. I guess it just depends on how much you need your job. But any kind of arguing at work is really not appropriate…just moho…
 
AnnaAnna said:
Perhaps it turned into a rude situation…I don’t know, but I do know that we do need to learn to stand up for our faith by being the most loving, kind, respectful people on earth. St. Francis gave us a wonderful example of courtesy and won peoples’ hearts and souls. Somewhere between speak up and shut up, we must become so holy people want to listen. Rude or not, I for one am glad you had the courage at least to want to defend faith. Thank you…so many are sooooo silent it hurts. 🤷
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Ideally, it should have never escalated and I was uncharitable. I agree with catharina and the others that my willingness to dispute fuelled the situation and will go to confess this at reconciliation. Initially, I expressed to this person that his comment was not appropriate but his insistence and the “high fives” really threw it over the top, especially because it wasn’t the first time with this particular gentleman. He seems to think it’s OK to disparage religion and I regrettably lost my temper and I argued with him. If I were error, however, it would be in favour of defending others and what I believe rather than to say nothing
 
Rascalking said:
I thought that but didn’t want to say it. Enough of the people here don’t want advice, they want affirmation.

Besides, enough people already don’t like me here. 😛
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But I do. I think you’re quite awesome even :hug1:
 
Rence said:
This is the point where I just would have ignored him. IMOHO, from the rest of your post, he sounds condescending and bitter on top of that. At work, I wouldn’t have engaged such a person at all, especially a ranking officer.
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I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, I let my emotions get the better of me.
Well, IMOHO I think it was a bit inappropriate for you to ask a ‘ranking officer’ to apologize because as a lower ranking person in the chain, it wasn’t your place. I wouldn’t go to the human resources department unless he started harassing me.
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I can imagine it would be difficult for a person to apologize to a relative ‘subordinate’ in the food chain.
I would pray to St. Michael before you go to work, and ask him to protect you from this person. And I would just stay under this person’s radar. But that’s just me. I think if you go to human resources, you’ll either both get reprimanded for arguing in the workplace or he will retaliate. I guess it just depends on how much you need your job. But any kind of arguing at work is really not appropriate…just moho…
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I can see your point. However, I’ve now resolved to address the issue with HR as this person has been guilty of this sort of thing before. I will take some of the advice and attempt to feel out the situation with a ‘how should I handle this sort of situation’ questioning and take it from there. I have a good rapport with the HR team.
 
catharina said:
Demanding an apology is light years away from
a simply stated “I disgree with your opinion.”
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Since you insist on participating, please understand that I requested an apology and did not demand one. Although you may consider them one in the same, they are not.
 
Rence said:
This is the point where I just would have ignored him. IMOHO, from the rest of your post, he sounds condescending and bitter on top of that. At work, I wouldn’t have engaged such a person at all, especially a ranking officer.

Well, IMOHO I think it was a bit inappropriate for you to ask a ‘ranking officer’ to apologize because as a lower ranking person in the chain, it wasn’t your place. I wouldn’t go to the human resources department unless he started harassing me. But then again, under normal cirumcstances I wouldn’t have let the situation escalate. We all have our weaknesses, and our weak moments. I almost tore off the head of a fellow nurse for claiming that “Catholic’s have it all wrong. For example, they worship Mary and worship the saints”. Boy did she get a really big mouthful in a relatively short few seconds 😃 But – she is not a ‘ranking officer’. After her face fell from my mini-tirade, I concluded with: “Well, I’m glad I had the opportunity to straighten out that mess…but I’m thinking that’s why generally we don’t talk about religion and politics at work”.

I find that people who are anti-religion and who push the buttons of people of faith, they do so for shock value, and I just don’t entertain them. 🤷

I would pray to St. Michael before you go to work, and ask him to protect you from this person. And I would just stay under this person’s radar. But that’s just me. I think if you go to human resources, you’ll either both get reprimanded for arguing in the workplace or he will retaliate. I guess it just depends on how much you need your job. But any kind of arguing at work is really not appropriate…just moho…
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Ditto, rence, 100%. Absolutely agree.

Also believe it is not un-heard-of that such a person will “bait” others.
So maybe this higher-up did exactly that. It’s very dumb but it happens.
 
Soldier_Of_God said:
Since you insist on participating, please understand that I requested an apology and did not demand one. Although you may consider them one in the same, they are not.
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It would be lovely if you are able to direct
your personal animosity elsewhere.

You asked for advice. I offered advice.

“Asking” for an apology from a higher-up in the
work palce because he made a comment in your presence
that was not appreciated by you - that’s very extreme, IMO.
 
catharina said:
It would be lovely if you are able to direct
your personal animosity elsewhere.

You asked for advice. I offered advice.
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I also indicated that I no longer require your (name removed by moderator)ut and yet you are still here. As you have seem to stimulate personal animosity, perhaps you should heed your own advice and not fuel the situation further.
 
Soldier_Of_God said:
I also indicated that I no longer require your (name removed by moderator)ut and yet you are still here. As you have seem to stimulate personal animosity, perhaps you should heed your own advice and not fuel the situation further.
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Soldier of God? You are offended as you claim your were at work.
I am clearly allowed to respond to posts in this thread. You addressed me.
I responded to you. Possible solution? Don’t address me.
 
catharina said:
Soldier of God? You are offended as you claim your were at work.
I am clearly allowed to respond to posts in this thread. You addressed me.
I responded to you. Possible solution? Don’t address me.
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Here’s another possible solution. Don’t fuel the situation or is being charitable only a requirement you have of others.
 
Dear Soldier of God,

While I admire your zeal in this matter, I think sometimes we all have to be mindful of an old saying:

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

In this case, you made your point that you do not believe that religion is the cause of all, or even may, wars. You even provided reasonable evidence for your position. And you probably should have left it there. By getting into an argument and requesting an apology, you may simply come across as argumentative and self-righteous. By taking this to HR now, you need to be careful as you may be aggravating a mini war of your own (with a person higher up the ladder, which doesn’t seem sensible, even if it was right).

Some conversations reach a point where you should simply say “I’m sorry you feel that way. We’ll have to agree to disagree”.
 
Soldier_Of_God said:
You are right and I agree I was angry, hence my request for apology and it was uncharitable. However, his derogatory commentary was not pertinent to his request and certainly uncalled for, especially when he is aware of our religious inclination.
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I agree with you that the call to “apologize” was uncalled for and uncharitable----however, I don’t feel that it was wrong of you to stand up for your and make it clear to the gentleman that his comments were out of order. Maybe you took it too far----but OTOH, the manager ALSO took it too far.
 
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