Speak up or Stay silent?

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wltdsnymom65

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Hello…

I am in a dilema, and could use some advice…

A friend of mine recently went through a divorce that lasted almost 3 years. The other day when we were having lunch, she revealed to me that when her ex-husband moved out of their home, she contracted a moving company and took all his tools and woodworking equipment he had purchased and used over the last 25 years and put them in storage. They have a value of over $10,000. She told me she hid them in two storage units under her boyfriends name so her ex couldn’t find them, and she lied to the court and her attorney about the whereabouts of these items.

She told the court she assumed her ex husband had moved them out of the house on his own. She has asked me not to say anything about it to anyone.

She has also asked me to help her photograph all the items so she can put them up for sale and pocket the money.

I feel very uncomfortable and told her, if someone asks me directly I will not lie.

I’m uncomfortable with helping her sell these items in her storage units, because I feel like they were “stolen”.

She and her ex were only married for 5 years, and she did this out of spite…

Am I making more out of this than I need to? Should I go to the court clerk and tell them what I know? I feel like I’m an accessory to perjury after the fact…

I’ve been praying about it, but not sure if I should speak up or stay silent…

Thanks for any advice you can offer
 
I wouldn’t report her but I definitely wouldn’t help her either.
 
I would report her – to the police. She’s helping her friend commit a crime – stealing and selling stolen goods. Not to mention aggravated perjury for lying in a court proceeding. I don’t know that you could be held criminally responsible, but you’re looking the other way while a crime is being committed and that, to me, is morally wrong.
 
No-one here will have to advise you in any way,your conscience will soon dictate your next course of action.This will determine who you are as a person and as a practicing catholic?Concealing the truth to be the cause of injury and injustice to another is …well…need I continue?

All the best,

JMJ
 
I’m uncomfortable with helping her sell these items in her storage units, because I feel like they were “stolen”.
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they are stolen and the rightful owner needs them for his work.
 
I would definitely not help her at all. But if you have the courage, and don’t mind the resulting tirade from her, I’d kindly tell her how shocked and disappointed you are in her immoral choice in behavior, and encourage her to just let go of her spite and give them back to her ex-husband. It would be better for her to just let go, and it would be a good example to her children. It’s easy to be nice to the people who are in our favor, but it takes a bigger person to be just as kind to someone we are angry with. She has no reason for her vindictive behavior. If she had more respect for herself she wouldn’t behave like this.
 
When someone is committing an act that we believe is wrong we are supposed to kindly discuss it with them and offer help in correcting the situation. God expect us to stand up for what is right but to so in a way that does become judgemental. In your case I feel you need to tell your friend that she has caused a moral dilemma for you that you are not willing to go along with any more. That will provide her the opportunity to return the tools and make it right on her own. If she doe not then you really should tell the police, or the owner if you possibly can.
 
Explain why you can’t help her using softly softly approach. She may fall out with or not but if she respects that you are Catholic she will know you are then really are Catholic and not just saying you’re Catholic.

Be a friend for her but say you can’t actually help her because what she is doing is illegal and if she doesn’t understand its illegal then explain why its illegal. If she doesn’t seem to care about it being illegal then you can explain as quietly as you can that its not the best way forward to handle this situation. You will be a friend through and through but can’t actaully participate because of your own personal stance. Don’t just say Catholic but say why. That how it would affect you for joining in with her. Be very detailed but softly.Explain to her properly why you feel you can’t get involved. You can’t go to the police yet can you because there hasn’t been a crime committed yet and everyone will just deny it. Just simply say without clever words why you can’t help her but in a caring way that might show her the error of her ways in time if luck

good luck
 
I would tell her how you feel and would feel it morally objectionable to help her sell the stuff … it could get you into trouble if you did and it was discovered. I wouldn’t tell anyone though unless directly asked about it simply because I have enough of my own problems to deal with and wouldn’t want to bring more trouble into my life. I would probably distance myself from a friend that would try to involve me in stuff like that as well.
 
I’d try to talk her out of it – how is she going to “market” $10k of tools? Someone will be on to her, checking Craigslist, pawn shops, etc, it’s possible the tools have already been reported as stolen. She could face very serious repercussions.

If she doesn’t return them, I think you have the same moral obligation you would to any crime victim, these are actual stolen goods. I wouldn’t want to get her arrested, so I might start with her lawyer, if I could figure out who it is, and tell him or her what you told us. The lawyer is bound by ethics, that’s why she hasn’t told him. If anyone would know the best way to make the goods reappear, without serious problems for your friend, and keeping her best interests in mind, that would be the person.
 
Gwendolen said:
I’d try to talk her out of it – how is she going to “market” $10k of tools? Someone will be on to her, checking Craigslist, pawn shops, etc, it’s possible the tools have already been reported as stolen. She could face very serious repercussions.

If she doesn’t return them, I think you have the same moral obligation you would to any crime victim, these are actual stolen goods. I wouldn’t want to get her arrested, so I might start with her lawyer, if I could figure out who it is, and tell him or her what you told us. The lawyer is bound by ethics, that’s why she hasn’t told him. If anyone would know the best way to make the goods reappear, without serious problems for your friend, and keeping her best interests in mind, that would be the person.
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Excellent advice here.

One thing that occured to me was that she may be spiting herself in all of this. Let’s say the tools are worth $10K new. Through the divorce settlement, she may have been entitled to $5K worth of that value. If she sells them second hand, I imagine she’d be lucky if she could get half their value, and it’s likely that she’d have to settle for less than that. Add in the storage costs, the hastle of selling it all, the risk associated, etc…
 
Gwendolen said:
I’d try to talk her out of it – how is she going to “market” $10k of tools? Someone will be on to her, checking Craigslist, pawn shops, etc, it’s possible the tools have already been reported as stolen. She could face very serious repercussions.

If she doesn’t return them, I think you have the same moral obligation you would to any crime victim, these are actual stolen goods. I wouldn’t want to get her arrested, so I might start with her lawyer, if I could figure out who it is, and tell him or her what you told us. The lawyer is bound by ethics, that’s why she hasn’t told him. If anyone would know the best way to make the goods reappear, without serious problems for your friend, and keeping her best interests in mind, that would be the person.
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underacloud said:
Excellent advice here.

One thing that occured to me was that she may be spiting herself in all of this. Let’s say the tools are worth $10K new. Through the divorce settlement, she may have been entitled to $5K worth of that value. If she sells them second hand, I imagine she’d be lucky if she could get half their value, and it’s likely that she’d have to settle for less than that. Add in the storage costs, the hastle of selling it all, the risk associated, etc…
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These 2 messages say it all. For the OP, this person is showing you a side of her that you may or may not have seen during your friendship. It should give you a wake-up call as to what sort of person you are dealing with. A person who would do such a thing to someone she used to say, “I love you” to, will stab you in the back without a second thought. This is despicable behavior, as well as being illegal.

I would tell her that you will be no party to such a thing, and that what she is doing is illegal, unethical and immoral. I would ask her to find a way to return the tools somehow. If she does try to sell them, she definitely could find herself in legal trouble. And if she comes clean, she will have to face consequences from her ex, perhaps.

Oh, the tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive!
 
TheRealJuliane said:
These 2 messages say it all. For the OP, this person is showing you a side of her that you may or may not have seen during your friendship. It should give you a wake-up call as to what sort of person you are dealing with. A person who would do such a thing to someone she used to say, “I love you” to, will stab you in the back without a second thought. This is despicable behavior, as well as being illegal.

I would tell her that you will be no party to such a thing, and that what she is doing is illegal, unethical and immoral. I would ask her to find a way to return the tools somehow. If she does try to sell them, she definitely could find herself in legal trouble. And if she comes clean, she will have to face consequences from her ex, perhaps.

Oh, the tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive!
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+1. With friends like these, who needs the devil?
 
He’s probably replaced most of the stuff and may have even gotten some insurance money from the loss.

She might be in for a big suprise when she goes to sell them. They may have cost $10,000 at one time but probably will never get that kind of $ in a sale. Most want electrically powered tools. She may be spending more on storage fees than she’ll gain. You might be helping her take them to the local thrift shop.

These things happen in a divorce. Who knows what he may have taken from her?
 
What the other posters have said.

Here’s my two cents:

I had a friend who did similar to her both of her husbands. She joyfully tells people about things she has done to them. This should have been a red flag. She also made fun of my then-boyfriend and told me I needed to “cheat on him just for fun.” :rolleyes:

She helped get me fired last year. We’re in the same profession and she called my administrator and let her know every way I had vented about my agency, even though my “friend” had vented about her own agency to me. Because my friend said I felt “uncomfortable” about some things, HR was brought in. My administrator threw me under the bus, which was why I never spoke up about some issues and sucked them up. I was fired by my boss who happily told me, “I’ve been here fifteen years; you’ve been here a year. I’m not going anywhere and I’ll be believed over you.” My “friend” knew this would happen and knows how our profession is. She did this anyway because she didn’t agree with choices in my life and was jealous I had become pregnant after she’s tried for years. I was shocked and heartbroken. She called me to laugh about it. I was pregnant and lost benefits, etc.

Do not think this woman wouldn’t turn on you like she did her husband. She is vindictive. Don’t think if you’re a good friend to her she won’t imagine some slight against her. Get her out of your life now.

There’s plenty of women who would be glad to be your friend and would support you and uplift you! Go find them! I know how much that sucks but it’s the best thing. :hug1:
 
aicirt said:
He’s probably replaced most of the stuff and may have even gotten some insurance money from the loss.
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:eek:
And if he hasn’t, he needs those tools. And if he has replaced them, the money he can get from selling the old ones is his. Stealing is wrong even if an insurance company pays for the loss.
She might be in for a big suprise when she goes to sell them. They may have cost $10,000 at one time but probably will never get that kind of $ in a sale. Most want electrically powered tools. She may be spending more on storage fees than she’ll gain. You might be helping her take them to the local thrift shop.
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These things happen in a divorce. Who knows what he may have taken from her?
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Another :eek:
Simply because some people lie, cheat and steal, doesn’t make it right to do it yourself. It is immaterial what her ex-husband did. She needs to own up to her theft and do the right thing.

And the OP shouldn’t have a question about what to do. She knows what is right and she needs to do it.
 
maryjk said:
And the OP shouldn’t have a question about what to do. She knows what is right and she needs to do it.
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She certainly knows what kind of person she’s dealing with. When someone starts to tell me something, and says, “Promise you won’t tell anyone else!” I put my fingers up to my lips and say, “I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THIS!” And I quickly leave the area. I don’t want to know gossip and I don’t want to be caught in some nasty triangle of revenge. That stuff gets people killed, or hurt in other ways.

I imagine this isn’t the first time the OP has dealt with this friend’s bad behavior. But it should be very clear what sort of person she is.
 
Wow, wltdsnymom65, you know the whole story, so this is contempt of court or some other serious offense. You would be conspiring with this women to sell the tools that you know she stole from her exhusband and lied to the court about.

Run. Very. Fast. To. A. Lawyer.
 
PaulinVA said:
Wow, wltdsnymom65, you know the whole story, so this is contempt of court or some other serious offense. You would be conspiring with this women to sell the tools that you know she stole from her exhusband and lied to the court about.

Run. Very. Fast. To. A. Lawyer.
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He has a point here, someone who wouldn’t hesitate to stick to their X like that might stick it to you next, should she get caught, who knows what she would say. Do not take pictures of the stolen goods on your own camera, unless an attorney who is paid to look after your interest tells you to for evidence.

It’s quite possible a key reason for recruiting you was to gain an accomplice to blame if things go wrong. Don’t get sucked in.
 
If it was me, I would speak up. I’m getting so tired of witnessing people do bad things to other people. Part of the reason people steal and lie is because they believe they will get away with it.

Just be prepared to deal with her wrath afterwards! Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
 
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