Speaking in Tongues

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ckempston said:
The only Biblical way to speak in a tongue is one at a time, and there must be an interpretation. Period. Otherwise, Paul says to keep your trap shut.

1 Cor 14:26-27 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should **keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. **

This nonsense that you see with people falling out in the aisles and everybody screaming at the top of their lungs over one another is UNBiblical.
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You are so right about St. Paul. 😃 Your citation refers to one of the classical gifts of the Holy Spirit described in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12.

My guess is that the nonsense you describe is an abuse of the common gift of prayer tongues which is separate from the classical gifts. St. Paul explains the difference in
1 Corinthians Chapter 12. However, it is sometimes difficult to discern which gift St. Paul is referring to so I suggest reading the entire context of both chapters 12 & 14 for clarification.

Blessings,
granny

Human life is meant for eternal life.
 
Here something to think about. Tongue are not for believers. 1 Cor 14:22
2 So then tongues are for a sign, **not to those who believe **but to unbelievers;
NASU

And women are not to speek in tongues in the church. Notice that the context of the following verse is tongues in the church. Mabe the reason why Paul said that women are to keep silent in regards to tongues in the church is because they were the ones causing the problem.
1 Cor 14:34

34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
NASU

Please no personal criticism just Bible facts please.
 
DLClark said:
I am sory but I jumped into this conversation in mid stream. So for my benefit could you fill me in or show me the comments to read. I am not mocking speaking in tongues. My questions are biblically based. If we make a statment and say it is biblical then we must have Bible support for it. I am not say that tongues are or are not for today. I want to know where in the bible that it says tongues are needed for today. So don’t take offense. By the way I have not read the book you are referring to.
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My apology. I did a reply which would have answered some of your questions but lost the whole thing when a crazy message box from CAF popped up on my screen when I tried to preview what I wrote. I apologize but I don’t have time to rethink it. I will get back to you when I return.

In the meantime, you can read 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 & 14. However, the translation may make it difficult to discern which gift St. Paul is referring to so I suggest reading the entire context of both chapters 12 & 14.

I totally understand that you are not mocking speaking in tongues. Part of the confusion out there is that we have lost the meaning and intention of the classical gift of speaking in tongues and a separate gift of prayer tongues. St. Paul teaches about the classical gifts and the common gift of prayer tongues.

The following book is an excellent resource. It has the Nihil Obstat and Imprimature.
A Key to Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church ISBN: 0-87029-033-9
by Msgr. Vincent M. Walsh

This book also briefly examines the history of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is sacred.
 
I have read both chapters in the Bible and have studied this subject very well. Here is a question that I always ask people who present me with a doctrine from the Bible. I ask them to support what are saying Scripturally. I would like for you to view the following verses in order to understand the purpose of sign gifts.
Mk 16:17-29
Jn 10:25, 37-38
Acts 5:12-16
Acts 14:1-3
Rm 15:18-19
1 Cor. 14:22
2 Cor 12:12
Eph 2;20
Heb 2:3-4
Romans 10:17
2 Cor 5:7
Eph 6:17
2 Tim 3:16 We have the Word of God that will mature us.

Sign gifts were given to the Apostles and to those whom the Apostles recognized to authenticate their message from God. After the Bible was written sign gifts ceased to used or needed. If you will notice that in the early Epistles sign gifts were mentioned some but not in the later books. We have the Word of God and do not need certain gifts any more.
 
Extra help for what? You did not look at the verses I sent you did you?
 
DLClark said:
I have read both chapters in the Bible and have studied this subject very well. Here is a question that I always ask people who present me with a doctrine from the Bible. I ask them to support what are saying Scripturally. I would like for you to view the following verses in order to understand the purpose of sign gifts.
Mk 16:17-29
Jn 10:25, 37-38
Acts 5:12-16
Acts 14:1-3
Rm 15:18-19
1 Cor. 14:22
2 Cor 12:12
Eph 2;20
Heb 2:3-4
Romans 10:17
2 Cor 5:7
Eph 6:17
2 Tim 3:16 We have the Word of God that will mature us.

Sign gifts were given to the Apostles and to those whom the Apostles recognized to authenticate their message from God. After the Bible was written sign gifts ceased to used or needed. If you will notice that in the early Epistles sign gifts were mentioned some but not in the later books. We have the Word of God and do not need certain gifts any more.
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I am not familiar with “sign gifts” per se. But this may be a difference of terminology.
Do you use the description “little Pentecost” for the place in Acts where Peter visits Cornelius–correct name escapes me? Would you add Romans 8: 26-27 to the above list? I have heard an interesting usage of 2 Timothy 1: 6 – taken out of context. Do you ever cite this verse?

I will definitely study all of the above especially since I need to learn meanings of “sign gifts”. Your help in this endeavor will be appreciated.
When someone presents me with Scripture, I like to study the context and footnotes.
However, I will have my head on a platter if I don’t leave soon.

Blessings,
granny

All human beings are worthy of profound respect.
 
josie_L said:
I have heard with some Pentecostals it is a requirement to speak in tongues. I wonder how one must feel if they don’t have the gift?
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That’s very true. It’s expected that when you receive the Holy Spirit you will speak in tongues.
 
ckempston said:
The only Biblical way to speak in a tongue is one at a time, and there must be an interpretation. Period. Otherwise, Paul says to keep your trap shut.

1 Cor 14:26-27 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should **keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. **

This nonsense that you see with people falling out in the aisles and everybody screaming at the top of their lungs over one another is UNBiblical.
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See I figured, there had to be an interpreter, to help us understand what was being said. This has not been the case in my experience with those speaking in tongues. Thank God, however, that it never amounted to people falling out of aisles and screaming, that’s a scary image. :eek:
 
In reply to your questions. You said this

"I am not familiar with “sign gifts” per se. But this may be a difference of terminology.
Do you use the description “little Pentecost” for the place in Acts where Peter visits Cornelius–correct name escapes me? Would you add Romans 8: 26-27 to the above list? I have heard an interesting usage of 2 Timothy 1: 6 – taken out of context. Do you ever cite this verse?

I will definitely study all of the above especially since I need to learn meanings of “sign gifts”. Your help in this endeavor will be appreciated.
When someone presents me with Scripture, I like to study the context and footnotes. "

Reply: I do not use the Term “little Pentecost” what do youmean by it? No I would not add these verse, romans 8:26-27 because they do not apply at all. they are dealing with another issue. 2 tim 1:6 does not apply either it is dealing with another issue.
 
josie_L said:
It’s mentioned in Ckempston’s post, God bless.
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It is indeed mentioned in several places. 1 Cor 14 where Paul says you should speak to yourself and God if there is no interpreter would seem to be one example. The other I can think of that probably supports “praying in tongues” is Romans 8:26, but in both cases, it seems to be a private matter, and I’m not sure how the charismatics define “prayer tongues.”

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
 
ckempston said:
It is indeed mentioned in several places. **1 Cor 14 where Paul says you should speak to yourself and God if there is no interpreter would seem to be one example. ** The other I can think of that probably supports “praying in tongues” is Romans 8:26, but in both cases, it seems to be a private matter, and I’m not sure how the charismatics define “prayer tongues.”

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
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Oh, I didn’t realize that, makes sense. God bless.
 
ckempston said:
It is indeed mentioned in several places. 1 Cor 14 where Paul says you should speak to yourself and God if there is no interpreter would seem to be one example. The other I can think of that probably supports “praying in tongues” is Romans 8:26, but in both cases, it seems to be a private matter, and I’m not sure how the charismatics define “prayer tongues.”

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
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This passage, 1 Cor. 14, does not say that tongues are a prayer language. It does not mention prayer here. It is talking about the inadequacy of tongues without an interpreter.Paul says that prophecy is far more important than tongues because it edifies the whole church and that is one reason why we meet for church. Notice the Romans passage says that the Spirit helps us in our praying when we don’t have the words to say. The Spirit does so not in tongues but in words that cannot be expressed Tongues is an expression and does not fit here.
 
ckempston said:
It is indeed mentioned in several places. 1 Cor 14 where Paul says you should speak to yourself and God if there is no interpreter would seem to be one example. The other I can think of that probably supports “praying in tongues” is Romans 8:26, but in both cases, it seems to be a private matter, and I’m not sure how the charismatics define “prayer tongues.”

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
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Well speaking in tongues is so misunderstood today and the Bible verses are taken way out of context. The gift of speaking in tongues was given so those preaching the word of GOD could speak in the native languages of those that may not have spoken the native language of the preacher. So if I spoke Greek but wanted to evangelize the Gospel to someone in Asia or Africa that spoke another language then the gift of tongues would allow me to do that.

When Paul speaks of an interpreter being present that was because it was presumed that folks in church would be speaking different languages requiring one with the gift of tongues to speak their language. But as Paul makes it quite clear someone must be present that can interpret what is being said otherwise the individual should stay quiet and pray to GOD personally. Many charismatic movements have started with this mumbo jumbo talk as if they are receiving private revelation from GOD. But without someone to interpret what they are saying it’s meaningless. I’ve been in churches where they literally have special time set aside to allow for the Spirit to “move” people. Then inevitably some wacko(s) start running around screaming blublublublub blablibluble and everyone just goes “aweeeeeee”. No one actually steps up to say what they are saying is this. As someone else mentioned that type of behavior is absolutely foreign to scripture and I don’t believe for one second that they are saying anything that is coming from GOD. No disrespect intended here.

In many charismatic churches the members will stay silent literally waiting for the Spirit to move someone. They would sit for hours just waiting and waiting. What started to happen is people got so tired of waiting that they just spoke for the sake of moving things along.
 
Great response. Here is a question I always ask someone when they try to defend tongues. I ask them to show me where it says that in the bible. We must have biblical support for our doctrine. It is never wrong to ask people to provide biblical evidence to support their doctrine.
 
ckempston said:
It is indeed mentioned in several places. 1 Cor 14 where Paul says you should speak to yourself and God if there is no interpreter would seem to be one example. The other I can think of that probably supports “praying in tongues” is Romans 8:26, but in both cases, it seems to be a private matter, and I’m not sure how the charismatics define “prayer tongues.”

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
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St. Paul instructs as to the difference between the public classical gift of the Holy Spirit of speaking in tongues and the common non-classical gift of the Holy Spirit of prayer tongues also referred to as praying in tongues in 1 Corinthians 14: 19. See key words “in the church” which is public since it is to instruct others. See 1 *Corinthians 14: 2 *for definition of prayer tongues which is private because it is directed to God. The following verses mentions the classical gift of prophesy in comparison. The classical gift of prophesy of the Holy Spirit is NOT the same as the gift of speaking in tongues. In fact, the word prophesy is used more in the Old Testament usage. This is not the same usage as what you read in the check-out counter tabloids. There are other separate references to prayer tongues.

In the traditional Catholic charismatic renewal, one spends a lot of time studying.
 
DLClark said:
This passage, 1 Cor. 14, does not say that tongues are a prayer language. It does not mention prayer here. It is talking about the inadequacy of tongues without an interpreter.Paul says that prophecy is far more important than tongues because it edifies the whole church and that is one reason why we meet for church. Notice the Romans passage says that the Spirit helps us in our praying when we don’t have the words to say. The Spirit does so not in tongues but in words that cannot be expressed
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Tongues is an expression and does not fit here.

I didn’t say that 1 Cor 14 says tongues were a “prayer language.” It says if there is no intpreter, alternativelyou should speak to God privately. What do we call speaking to God privately? Um, let’s see, prayer?

I’ll have to concede that Romans 5:26 does not at all support speaking in tongues after looking at the Greek. The word in Romans 5:26 for “expressed” is simply the negation of Laleo, which is part of the word for “speaking in tongues” - Glossalalia.
 
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