Speaking in Tongues

[Hisalone]

You are presumtious and rude! It is extrememly arrogant for a non-Catholic to tell a Catholic that he is in error when it comes to Catholic doctrine. Honestly, what makes you think you are so omnicient?

It is for this very reason I left the Catholic Church. The teaching of the operation of the HS is best studied through Charismatics/Pentacostals.
Do Charismatic Catholics speak in tongues? Yes many do.
Did they start speaking at confirmation? Ask them see what they say.
You being a Catholic did you start speaking in tongues right after you were confirmed? Any members of your family?
See what Im getting at. The baptism of the HS is real and it is tangible and is evidenced by the speaking in tongues. If you dont speak in tongues then you cannot speak with any kind of authority on this issue.

 

[CWBetts]

It is for this very reason I left the Catholic Church. The teaching of the operation of the HS is best studied through Charismatics/Pentacostals.
Do Charismatic Catholics speak in tongues? Yes many do.
Did they start speaking at confirmation? Ask them see what they say.
You being a Catholic did you start speaking in tongues right after you were confirmed? Any members of your family?
See what Im getting at. The baptism of the HS is real and it is tangible and is evidenced by the speaking in tongues. If you dont speak in tongues then you cannot speak with any kind of authority on this issue.

Speaking in toungs is NOT the only evidence of being filled with the Spirit! Any who believe otherwise have been fooled. Now let me get this straight: You left the One True Church because you felt you didn’t have the right “salvation experience”? Shameful.

 

[jlhargus]

JL: Original sin is not an actual stain, it is a LACK of the indwelling life of God. Thru this LACK Man is subject to the flesh and all its desires. Man is born with a sin nature so to speak. We must be born again by water and Sprit, receiving the spiritual life of God the HS indwelling. The soul or spiritural nature, then rules over the flesh by the grace of the HS. That struggle between the flesh and spiritual within us is part of our spiritual warfare, we must always struggle to overcome the desires of the flesh, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. [Rm5:18 Then as ONE MAN’S TRESPASS led to CONDEMNATION for ALL MEN so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men 19 For as BY ONE MAN’S DISOBEDIENCE MANY WERE MADE SINNERS so by one man’s obedience many will be made righteous] Note, Condemnation for ALL men, MADE SINNERS, they did not commit personal sin, but WERE MADE SINNERS, bringing condemnation FOR ALL, by one man’s trespass.

[1Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. OTHERWISE your CHILDREN would be UNCLEAN, but AS IT IS, THEY ARE HOLY.] So infants cannot be a Christian because they cannot DO, believe, repent. who gives that free gift of faith, doesn’t it come by God’s grace alone. God’s gift of saving grace is freely given by God, then comes what we must DO. It would seem you have left out one of the most important things they must DO, Christ tells us, you MUST be born again, and he tells us how, by water and the Spirit. Baptism brings a child into convenant family relationship with God, just as circumcision did in the old covenant, Paul makes that clear, with baptism being the circumcision of the heart. With your theory circumcision in the OT should have been only for adults. Because those OT adults had to have faith, repent and be circumcised to enter the people of God.

JL: Sorry folks I posted this and my following post on the wrong line.

 

[Hisalone]

Speaking in toungs is NOT the only evidence of being filled with the Spirit! Any who believe otherwise have been fooled. Now let me get this straight: You left the One True Church because you felt you didn’t have the right “salvation experience”? Shameful.

I left a man made institution to follow after the One True God.

BTW you violated the Terms of Agreement for this forum but unlike the many Protestants that went before me that were banned because of reports by folks on this board I will not report you.

 

[Hisalone]

Speaking in toungs is NOT the only evidence of being filled with the Spirit! Any who believe otherwise have been fooled. Now let me get this straight: You left the One True Church because you felt you didn’t have the right “salvation experience”? Shameful.

This thread is about speaking in tongues. What experience do you have with speaking in tongues?

 

[severntofall]

Quite frankly, speaking in tounges is easliy the most absurd and stupid aspect of any religion. The notion that the Holy Spirit has it’s own language and opts to make christians look like mentally deranged idiots is absurd.

youtube.com/watch?v=00T5rfvbwS8

youtube.com/watch?v=y79xPczARc8

 

[guanophore]

JL again you are in error as IM sure you will not listen to me consult a Charismatic Catholic. The Baptism of the HS in evidence of speaking in tongues does not happen to Catholics at confirmation it happens when they are laid hands upon by other Baptised in the HS believers.

Sometimes it does happen at confirmation. At that time, most Catholics are not educated in the Gifts they have received, and are not taught to use them. It is as if they are wired for light, but the switch is turned off.

The Bishop or his vicar are baptized in the HS believers, and when they seal the candidate in confirmation, the Spirit releases the Gifts in them. They may not know what to do with them, though, until they are educated by others who have been.

 

[Reuben_J]

Sometimes it does happen at confirmation. At that time, most Catholics are not educated in the Gifts they have received, and are not taught to use them. It is as if they are wired for light, but the switch is turned off.

The Bishop or his vicar are baptized in the HS believers, and when they seal the candidate in confirmation, the Spirit releases the Gifts in them. They may not know what to do with them, though, until they are educated by others who have been.

If you’re thirtieth something or more, most probably you had a very simple Confirmation process. No seminar; not even a Godfather. Receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation would certainly literally an act of faith.

Recently in some parishes, something more academic is being organized for confirmation candidates, and depending on which parish/diocese/archdiocese you live in, a program/teaching on how to be in-filled with the Holy Spirit and living the victorious life may be used by the organizers.

 

[CWBetts]

This thread is about speaking in tongues. What experience do you have with speaking in tongues?

None. But that does not mean I have never been filled with the Spirit.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Has anyone here spoken in Tongues?I am particularly interested in hearing from those who have done so prior to converting to Catholicism.All others are welcome too.

The gift of tongues will cease. Paul says “as for tongues, they will cease” (1 Cor. 13:8). The Greek word for “cease” (pauomai) means that the gift of tongues will end abruptly, on its own, and will not be replaced by another gift. The gift of tongues is the only gift of the Holy Spirit that is said to “cease” in this way. When Paul says that prophecies and knowledge will “pass away” (1 Cor. 13:8), the phrase “pass away” (in Greek, katargeo) indicates that these gifts will be replaced by a superior power. This appears to take place when we begin our life in eternity (1 Cor. 13:10-12). Not so with tongues.

Paul does not say when the gift of tongues would cease, and whether the gift would return intermittently after its cessation. However, Augustine wrote that the gift of tongues had ceased by the time of his day. Augustine explained that this was because the Catholic Church now spoke the language of the nations, and tongue-speaking was only for purposes of evangelization (Aquinas agreed). The fact that the gift of tongues is not recorded in later books of the New Testament suggest that the gift may have even been ceasing during the biblical period.

Nevertheless, there are a few recorded instances of saints speaking in tongues over the centuries (Sts. Dominic, Anthony of Padua, Francis Xavier, John of the Cross, Ignatius of Loyola). This demonstrates that the gift of tongues is very rare, and given to the holiest of people.

 

[Reuben_J]

The gift of tongues will cease. Paul says “as for tongues, they will cease” (1 Cor. 13:8).

…

The gift of tongues is the only gift of the Holy Spirit that is said to “cease” in this way.

…

The fact that the gift of tongues is not recorded in later books of the New Testament suggest that the gift may have even been ceasing during the biblical period.

…

Nevertheless, there are a few recorded instances of saints speaking in tongues over the centuries (Sts. Dominic, Anthony of Padua, Francis Xavier, John of the Cross, Ignatius of Loyola). This demonstrates that the gift of tongues is very rare, and given to the holiest of people.

Interesting. There are some statements here if you care to elaborate?

On cursory glance the first few sentences seem to conflict with last one.

Thanks.

p/s Is it possible after having received the Sacrament of Confirmation and living the full Christian life that any Catholic can achieve the same level of holiness as the saints?

 

[guanophore]

Paul says that prophecies and knowledge will “pass away” (1 Cor. 13:8), the phrase “pass away” (in Greek, katargeo) indicates that these gifts will be replaced by a superior power. This appears to take place when we begin our life in eternity (1 Cor. 13:10-12). Not so with tongues.

Well, it seems that your rendering is not consistent with the teaching of the Catholic Church. The Church teaches that the Charismata are for the building up of the Body of Christ, and therefore, will be here until the Body is taken up to heaven.

Augustine wrote that the gift of tongues had ceased by the time of his day.

Augustine, learned though he was, did not know everything.

This comment of his is as contrary to the infallible teaching of the church as yours.

Augustine explained that this was because the Catholic Church now spoke the language of the nations, and tongue-speaking was only for purposes of evangelization (Aquinas agreed).

Well, I am sure it seemed that way to them. neither of them had any personal experiences of the Eastern Church, had not travelled there, and did not realize how different the language, culture, and spirituality of the Eastern Churches really was. It was this Latin prejudice that eventuallly precipitated the Great Schism.

The fact that the gift of tongues is not recorded in later books of the New Testament suggest that the gift may have even been ceasing during the biblical period.

Another statement contrary to the teaching of the Church.

Your comments also seem to recognize only one of the variety of the gifts of tongues. Your failure to recognize and appreciate them does not make them go away for anyone but yourself.

Nevertheless, there are a few recorded instances of saints speaking in tongues over the centuries (Sts. Dominic, Anthony of Padua, Francis Xavier, John of the Cross, Ignatius of Loyola). This demonstrates that the gift of tongues is very rare, and given to the holiest of people.

No, Bill. The gift of tongues is given for the building up of the Body of Christ. It is available to all who are willing to receive it. Just like any of the spiritual gifts, it is even more needed by the weak and fallen. If we had to merit such things by personal holiness, they would be wages, not gifts.

 

[guanophore]

Paul says that prophecies and knowledge will “pass away” (1 Cor. 13:8), the phrase “pass away” (in Greek, katargeo) indicates that these gifts will be replaced by a superior power. This appears to take place when we begin our life in eternity (1 Cor. 13:10-12). Not so with tongues.

Well, it seems that your rendering is not consistent with the teaching of the Catholic Church. The Church teaches that the Charismata are for the building up of the Body of Christ, and therefore, will be here until the Body is taken up to heaven.

Augustine wrote that the gift of tongues had ceased by the time of his day.

Augustine, learned though he was, did not know everything.

This comment of his is as contrary to the infallible teaching of the church as yours.

Augustine explained that this was because the Catholic Church now spoke the language of the nations, and tongue-speaking was only for purposes of evangelization (Aquinas agreed).

Well, I am sure it seemed that way to them. neither of them had any personal experiences of the Eastern Church, had not travelled there, and did not realize how different the language, culture, and spirituality of the Eastern Churches really was. It was this Latin prejudice that eventuallly precipitated the Great Schism.

The fact that the gift of tongues is not recorded in later books of the New Testament suggest that the gift may have even been ceasing during the biblical period.

Another statement contrary to the teaching of the Church.

Your comments also seem to recognize only one of the variety of the gifts of tongues. Your failure to recognize and appreciate them does not make them go away for anyone but yourself.

evertheless, there are a few recorded instances of saints speaking in tongues over the centuries (Sts. Dominic, Anthony of Padua, Francis Xavier, John of the Cross, Ignatius of Loyola). This demonstrates that the gift of tongues is very rare, and given to the holiest of people.

 

[Jamison97]

I speak in tongues around Pentecost, but other than around that time of year, I rarely do.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Quite frankly, speaking in tounges is easliy the most absurd and stupid aspect of any religion. The notion that the Holy Spirit has it’s own language and opts to make christians look like mentally deranged idiots is absurd.

youtube.com/watch?v=00T5rfvbwS8

youtube.com/watch?v=y79xPczARc8

Is it any more foolish than saving sinners through "the foolishness of the Cross " ? (that BTW is St Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 - not this poster) The Apostles at Pentecost were thought to be drunk (Acts 2). ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Well, it seems that your rendering is not consistent with the teaching of the Catholic Church. The Church teaches that the Charismata are for the building up of the Body of Christ, and therefore, will be here until the Body is taken up to heaven.

Augustine, learned though he was, did not know everything.

You* cannot* be serious LOL ​

This comment of his is as contrary to the infallible teaching of the church as yours.

Well, I am sure it seemed that way to them. neither of them had any personal experiences of the Eastern Church, had not travelled there, and did not realize how different the language, culture, and spirituality of the Eastern Churches really was. It was this Latin prejudice that eventuallly precipitated the Great Schism.

Another statement contrary to the teaching of the Church.

Your comments also seem to recognize only one of the variety of the gifts of tongues. Your failure to recognize and appreciate them does not make them go away for anyone but yourself.

No, Bill. The gift of tongues is given for the building up of the Body of Christ. It is available to all who are willing to receive it. Just like any of the spiritual gifts, it is even more needed by the weak and fallen. If we had to merit such things by personal holiness, they would be wages, not gifts.

Even the Saints had to begin the life of grace - and if only Saints like that could receive God’s grace, what hope for the rest of us would there be ? ​

 

[heiscominginthe]

Speaking in toungs is NOT the only evidence of being filled with the Spirit! Any who believe otherwise have been fooled. Now let me get this straight: You left the One True Church because you felt you didn’t have the right “salvation experience”? Shameful.

Speaking in tongues can be evidence one has been filled with the Holy Spirit. Yet, does the man, if he has had hands laid upon him, but does not speak in tongues after being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, have to speak in tongues as evidence that he received the baptism?

What man can look into the heart of a man and judge such things. If the man had hands laid upon him and truly believes he has been baptized in the HS, who has the right to say he did not receive it?

Just because a man does not speak in tongues at the moment of the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not mean he will not speak in tongues as he grows in faith. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is like salvation, an act of faith.

Often times men have doubts that prevent them from praying in the spirit, but as they grow in faith, those doubts will go away if he walks in the spirit.

We are our own worst enemies when it comes to the faith. We believe things that are contrary to the faith, which can stunt our very walk of faith. So we must believe the Word of God, not the doctrines of men. Let the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth.

 

[heiscominginthe]

Quite frankly, speaking in tounges is easliy the most absurd and stupid aspect of any religion. The notion that the Holy Spirit has it’s own language and opts to make christians look like mentally deranged idiots is absurd.

youtube.com/watch?v=00T5rfvbwS8

youtube.com/watch?v=y79xPczARc8

You say tongues is silly. Yet, to protect your stand so others cannot use it to bebunk your doctrine, you refuse to name your denomination.

You kind of sound like the church of Christ. Come on, you can tell us. Do you believe in baptism?

 

[guanophore]

Even the Saints had to begin the life of grace - and if only Saints like that could receive God's grace, what hope for the rest of us would there be ? :eek::eek::eek:

Exactly! Furthermore, Scripture is clear that the person who prays in tongues “edifies himself”. The Apostle is also clear that this is the 'least" of the gifts. Therefore, it makes more sense that those who are weak in faith are those that need it most, since they are most in need of being “edified”.

1 Cor 14:4
“He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself”

Indeed, there would be no hope for the rest of us if personal holiness were a requirement for God’s gifts.

 

[guanophore]

Speaking in tongues can be evidence one has been filled with the Holy Spirit.

It can, but there are other evidences more valuable. To complicate matters, there are other sources of this activity that are not from God. A person speaking in tongues does not necessarily reflect being filled with the HS.

Yet, does the man, if he has had hands laid upon him, but does not speak in tongues after being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, have to speak in tongues as evidence that he received the baptism?

What man can look into the heart of a man and judge such things. If the man had hands laid upon him and truly believes he has been baptized in the HS, who has the right to say he did not receive it?

I would not presume to do such a thing. Neither is it proper to proclaim that, a person having been thus ordained, who does not reflect the gifft, is not filled.

Just because a man does not speak in tongues at the moment of the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not mean he will not speak in tongues as he grows in faith. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is like salvation, an act of faith.

This is true.

Often times men have doubts that prevent them from praying in the spirit, but as they grow in faith, those doubts will go away if he walks in the spirit.

And some learn to walk by the Spirit and never use the gift.

We are our own worst enemies when it comes to the faith. We believe things that are contrary to the faith, which can stunt our very walk of faith. So we must believe the Word of God, not the doctrines of men. Let the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth.

I think you have some confusion about the difference between Sacred Tradition, and the traditions of men. Sacred Tradition has it’s origin in God. That is why it is equal in authority to Scripture.