Speaking in Tongues

[cassman]

What purpose does this serve?

What if no one understands what the person is saying?

How is one to discern if it is “the real thing” or not?

 

[Redeemerslove]

cassman:

What purpose does this serve?

What if no one understands what the person is saying?

How is one to discern if it is “the real thing” or not?

We talked this to death in the threads about Charismatic Catholics. Please refer to them.

 

[Arlene_Alice]

Dear Cassman. I am a Catholic Charismatic and have the gift of tongues, and the interpretation of tongues. May I quote from the pamphlet “Come, Holy Spirit” a Pastoral Statement on The Catholic Charismatic Renewal published by the Archdiocese of Chicago.

“Have you ever wanted to speak to God, but did not know exactly what to say? The gift of tongues - what appears to be speaking or singing in unintelligible sounds - is simply a way of praying, a form of contemplative prayer. Specific words with precise intellectual content are set aside to allow for a deeper union on one’s heart with the Lord. It allows for new possibilities of communication with God. In some instances, this prayer may be interpreted for the community by someone with the particular gift of interpreting tongues.”

Because the Pentecostal Movement seems so mysterious to those who peer from the outside, many discount it as being a counterfeit [even demonic] manifestation in this day and age. They will argue, only the Apostles and Mary spoke in tongues and were infilled with the Holy Spirit in the Upper Room for the purpose of spreading the Gospel.

This conclusion is false, unscriptural, and un-historical. The Holy Spirit “renewed” the Church thruout the centuries and poured upon it the charisms needed to invigorate the faithful, and bring them closer into the presence of God. Many Popes have supported it, including JP II.

I can only tell you that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is available to every believer, and is one of the most awesome experiences of grace one could desire. There are many Catholic books written about Charismatic Renewal. Please seek them out for direct and clear answers.

The remarks on some of the Charismatic threads here have been sadly distorted. Go to the source, instead of listening to folks who haven’t got a clue. Catholic Charismatic web site:
ccc.garg.com/

 

[agname]

cassman:

What purpose does this serve?

What if no one understands what the person is saying?

How is one to discern if it is “the real thing” or not?

The following is a good read…then I will answer your questions.

“Paul addresses the matter of ‘speaking in tongues’ as a possible problem in the church at Corinth. Although he acknowledges that the ability to speak in ‘various kinds of tongues’ and the ability to interpret these tongues are ‘spiritual gifts’ (1 Cor. 12:10), he is aware not all are to speak in tongues (1 Cor. 12:30), and advises his readers to seek ‘the higher gifts’ (1 Cor. 12:31). In 1 Corinthians 13, he makes it clear that he thinks of love as the greatest spiritual gift. Love is contrasted with speaking ‘in the tongues of men and of angels’ (1 Cor. 13:1); love endures, while tongues will cease (v. 8).”

“In 1 Corinthians 14, Paul gives a number of directions about the use of glossolalia. Speaking in tongues is not helpful to the community, he says, because it is incomprehensible (14:2). Only when there is interpretation is there edification (v. 5). When the community convenes, no more than three should speak in tongues, each in turn, and there must be an interpretation (v. 27). Paul feels that uncontrolled and uninterpreted speaking in tongues does not edify the community and that it gives outsiders the impression that believers are mad (v. 23). Yet, he allows this activity to take place, so long as it is done in orderly fashion and is accompanied by interpretation.”

---

What purpose does this serve?
Perhaps as a witness. Though, reputable scholars indicate that “tongue-speaking” within the Bible…is in reference to individuals speaking known foreign languages…for instance, during the Pentecost. Most of the Apostolic Fathers were against glossolalia…only a handful believed in it…ie Tertullian.

What if no one understands what the person is saying?
Paul is very clear on this…then they should remain silent. Only when there is interpretation…is there edification.

How is one to discern if it is “the real thing” or not?
No more than three should speak in tongues, each in turn, and there must be an interpretation.

 

[agname]

For the history of the Charismatic Movement…

unitypublishing.com/NewReligiousMovements/CharismaticMovement1.html

 

[beng]

Arlene Alice:

Dear Cassman. I am a Catholic Charismatic and have the gift of tongues, and the interpretation of tongues. May I quote from the pamphlet “Come, Holy Spirit” a Pastoral Statement on The Catholic Charismatic Renewal published by the Archdiocese of Chicago.

Please do record the tongues and your interpretation.

I will pay money to get the tape shipped to my address for clarification (1John 4:1)

“Have you ever wanted to speak to God, but did not know exactly what to say? The gift of tongues - what appears to be speaking or singing in unintelligible sounds - is simply a way of praying, a form of contemplative prayer. Specific words with precise intellectual content are set aside to allow for a deeper union on one’s heart with the Lord. It allows for new possibilities of communication with God. In some instances, this prayer may be interpreted for the community by someone with the particular gift of interpreting tongues.”

It’s called Jubilation. Not the gift og tongues.

I can only tell you that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is available to every believer, and is one of the most awesome experiences of grace one could desire.

From Fr William Most’s Error in Charismatics:

This [Baptism in the Holy Spirit] is contrary to Vatican II. In On the Church §12 the Council distinguishes ordinary and extraordinary charisms: “The extraordinary gifts are not to be rashly asked for, nor should the fruits of apostolic works be presumptuously expected from them; but the judgment of their genuine character and the ordered exercise of them pertains to those who preside in the Church…”

The remarks on some of the Charismatic threads here have been sadly distorted. Go to the source, instead of listening to folks who haven’t got a clue. Catholic Charismatic web site:
ccc.garg.com/

You come here just know don’t know anything about what we’ve been discussing and then you say we have no clue?

Is that a very Charismatic way of acting? Nice.

PS
Fr William G. Most’s is a well known Catholic theologian and also a very productive writers. He wrote many articles about alot of subject. EWTN.com document library is practically fill with Fr Most writing. Here is his article about Error in Charismatics

 

[Makerteacher]

cassman:

What purpose does this serve?

What if no one understands what the person is saying?

How is one to discern if it is “the real thing” or not?

Excellent question, and I thank you for asking it without any snide tone. I am a Charismatic Catholic who does pray privately in tongues but does not prophecy in tongues (speak publicly in tongues). Tongues are only one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and are frankly one of the lesser gifts, but seem to be THE gift that many people outside of the Charismatic Renewal take great exception to, for whatever reason. The Charismatic Renewal, contrary to what many trasditionalists will say, is an approved lay apostolate of the Catholic Church and operates in full obedience to the Holy See. I’d be happy to provide the links here, if needed, though I have already posted them in about 6 other threads.

Ok, Tongues: Scripture seems to indicate that there is more than one “variety” of tongues. There is public prophesy with interpretation as said in 1 Cor.; there is speaking in another earthly language, as was done by the disciples in Acts; and there is the “groanings of the Spirit” or private prayer in tongues as in Romans 8:26. It would seem to me that the first two would need interpreters, and the third one does not.

Even in 1 Cor 14:28 it says “But if there is no one to interpret, there should be silence in the assembly, each one speaking only to himself and to God”. This says two things - first, that just because there is no one interpreting for humans does not mean that the tongues do not exist. Second, this says silence “in the assembly”, as in, not speaking in tongues so that all can hear. Rather, one is indicated here to keep “silent” – to keep it to themselves rather than speaking publicly. This then ties into Romans 8:26 (groanings of the Spirit) and shows that one could have the gift of “silent” tongues, only between the individual and God.

As for speaking in tongues, it is the Holy Spirit which speaks through us, to express things which are beyond words (those who speak in tongues often say that it happens when the words of praise/prayer no longer suffice). It can either be in Earthly (“foreign”) languages (which can sometimes be understood by their native speakers), or in the languages of the angels. Both of these could be interpreted through the gift of interpretation of tongues. As stated, this form of personal communication differs from the ones requiring interpretation.

Scott Hahn in his “Scripture Matters” explained that that revival of the gift of tongues are a warning from God (it also happened in the Old Testament before some disaster struck, and also in the New, before the Romans invaded). Yikes! That gives us something to think about, doesn’t it!?

 

[Arlene_Alice]

To Beng:

I read Fr. Most’s comments very carefully. I don’t read him condemning the Catholic Charismatic Movement, only pointing out what he observes as abuses.

One point he misses completely. I have to wonder if he is speaking from actual observation or hearsay. It seems like hearsay to me.] He talks of only two or three speaking in tongues in a community as scriptural. There is a difference between speaking in tongues and praising in tongues. The Charismatic Community starts out by songs of praise in English, then praising in tongues as a group, then we are silent while 2 or 3 “speak in tongues”, after which we wait for an interpretation of those tongues…which can be praise, exhortation, or a prophetic word.

Fr. Most seems to be taking the word of one witness who said some people speaking in tongues were actually cursing God! One verbal witness to condemn the whole? What kind of research is that?

There are as many abuses in the Marian Movement as there are in other Catholic Movements in the Church. I am both Marian and a Charismatic. The idea that Charismatics reject Mary is false. Our group leads the Rosary before daily Masses. Where is Fr. Most getting these ideas?

I have been with Marian groups that seem to be running to find Mary in everything. There was a group here that saw Mary in a knothole in a tree and started prayer vigils! As I say, there are abuses in every Movement. The Vatican still hasn’t approved of Medjugore and other contemporary Marian apparition site and offers cautions, as well. Would you condemn the whole Marian Movement on this point?

Certainly the devil is capable of disrupting the good intentions of ANY group…Knights of Columbus, Marian, Charismatic, Holy Name, Sodality of Mary, Catholic Women’s Clubs, Opus Dei, etc.

If many Popes and Bishops have given their blessing to the Charistmatic Movement, than your quarrel is with them. I would suggest contacting Bishop Jacobs, who is the Catholic Charismatic liaison to the Vatican.

 

[kpnuts2k]

when jesus went to heaven he promised us a gift and commanded his followers to wait in jersuilam for it and as they waited the holy spirit came upon them and they started to sing to god in their own language.

you say that noone undertstands it well god does and also people and understand other people if god wants them to
its a way of praiseing god when you have run out of words to discribe your praise

 

[donbjc]

I have always understood that speaking in tongues means that there are times when a person from a foreign land attending a service can suddenly understand the foreign language being spoken, or in an especially spriritual gathering of different foreign speaking people they would be able to understand each others language clearly, although they do not know the language being spoken. It is through the power of the Holy Spirit that this happens.
I believe that if the language is unintelligible it would have to be of Satan, and therefore unintelligible to God as well as to humans. Kind of like being possessed of an evil spirit as persons are when being exorcised.
I believe God works in perfectly logical and natural ways, and is always easier to understand than we think.
I know this sounds wacky to all of you, but I have experienced this and it is very natural, all of a sudden you become aware that you can understand the person speaking even though they are speaking Italian or Spanish and you do not know the language at all.
Don

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Arlene Alice:

IThe remarks on some of the Charismatic threads here have been sadly distorted. Go to the source, instead of listening to folks who haven’t got a clue. Catholic Charismatic web site:
ccc.garg.com/

To this I say AMEN God Bless