Speaking in tongues

[BluesPicker]

Hi! I’ve been to a meeting of young people from our diocese and I was at a workshop about intercessory prayer. Sister Francisca that led the workshop said that she has a lot of experience with intercessory prayer and she gave us a lecture about intercessions from the Old Testament and what it ment to them. When she started to talk about the intercessiory that we know better - when someone puts his hand on your shoulder etc. (just a simplified description, because I do not know the terms in Enlgish), she said, that she is whenever able to start speaking in tongues and whenever able to stop it.

I am not sure how does this charism work. I mean, I work with a priest that is half opened to charisms (he had to stop them for quite a while because of the “popularity” of them that made young people forget the most important things about christianity, like Christ himself) and I have encountered with some people that speak in tongues when they pray intercessory prayer for others, but I myself and none of my closest friends (co-workers, nor the priest himself) do speak in tongues.

I am opened to this charism, because I feel the need to build myself on such leveles for certain reasons. And on this youth meeting during worship I tried to speak in tongues, but I am not sure how to differ between the actual charism and between just fabricated “babble”. (If I can put it this way.)

Also, what it means to pray in tongues silently?

Dear Mr. Martin,

  If you read through St. Paul's letters,  you will see that  Tongues  manifest in several ways.  But we are not supposed to force a Gift nor seek it.  Gifts of the Holy Spirit are gifts.  How can one beg a gift from someone?   Patience,  you must be very patient.

  One group of  Charismatics actually told a  person that they aren't Christian if they can't speak in Tongues and that you have to prime it "Ka seeda Ka sodda"  etc.etc.

This person’s conscience led them to resist this.

    Now this same person,  is part of a deliverance team for an exorcist.

    Angelic Tongues have been spoken from the time of Christ on earth until the present day. 

     You know some denominations pick up venomous snakes and  maybe scorpions.   I have a problem with that because serpents and scorpions are classes of  demonic spirits.  When the demon manifests in public solemn exorcism,  the ones that only priests may say,   the eyes turn downwards, serpent present, or upwards, scorpion.  This alerts the priest  what kind of spirit is present.

      Perhaps one can misinterpret Holy Scripture and promote Tongues and other Gifts in an unhealthy way.

      One has to be humble, trusting and knowing that the Holy Spirit will give a portion of the Gifts of the Spirit.  He does so to all.

    Please understand many good Catholics, some of which are Saints, never prayed or spoke in Angelic Tongues.   The Holy Spirit  doles out His Gifts as He sees fit.

Many Blessings,
BP

 

[grannymh]

This is what I have always thought as well. I’m so confused now. I guess I’ll just sit by and read. I still believe in my first thought though, it seems the most logical to me

No worry about feeling confused. About 77% of CAF has difficulty understanding the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

There are two, distinct, separate gifts of the Holy Spirit which use “Tongues”. Unfortunately, the word “speaking” is the English translation for both gifts.

Within his first letter to the people of Corinth, St. Paul, lists nine primary Gifts of the Holy Spirit which, in a sense, are a ministry which serves the needs of the Church community. Writers will often say that these nine gifts are meant to build up the Catholic Church. Writers name these nine gifts – the classical gifts or the Pauline gifts since they are listed by St. Paul.

One of these nine gifts is The Gift of [speaking in] Tongues whereby the person gives God’s message, in an unknown language. The companion classical gift is the Gift of Interpretation whereby a second individual gives the general meaning of what was said.

This particular gift of Tongues is a passing manifestation of God’s power. It is used alone and not in common with others. It needs to be followed by interpretation. It is meant primarily to release God’s message to the group which is present.

If these nine classical gifts were fingers, the ordinary gift of Praying in Tongues would stick out like a sore thumb.

The ordinary gift of Praying in Tongues is the gift, available to all, whereby the person prays to God in unknown sounds by yielding to the action of the Holy Spirit. It is that simple.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Speaking in tounges as it comes from God would not be speaking nonsense. Why would God want people to speak nonsense?

Why would He want them to remain silent? Tongues is prayer. And unless you are calling me a liar, I guarantee you, to the outside observer, it is not a language.

I am charismatic and contemplative. The same thing that called me to silence and essentially thoughtlessness in contemplation, is also what inspires speaking in tongues. Why would God call us to silence and sound that has no human meaning?

Because in the one we yearn for God and are made able to hear, and in the other our soul speaks in our surrender a language God understands perfectly while we don’t even know what we should be praying for. But for His will to be done, for the Spirit to descend, for healing and hope and comfort.

It’s only nonsense to a human listener, it is eloquent volumes to God.

 

[Julia_Mae]

The apostles were speaking multiple languages.That is the explanation i have read.Each one was speaking multiple languages.none was babbling incoherently

I never said they were babbling incoherently. I presume you are, yourself, not charismatic. I am. I am explaining is how this works in the charismatic prayers of Catholics. “Tongues” is not the same thing as what people reported seeing the Apostles do.

 

[Julia_Mae]

This is what I have always thought as well. I’m so confused now. I guess I’ll just sit by and read. I still believe in my first thought though, it seems the most logical to me

Well, how is this important to you, personally? What difference would acceptance of one or another thing make to you?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I am opened to this charism, because I feel the need to build myself on such leveles for certain reasons. And on this youth meeting during worship I tried to speak in tongues, but I am not sure how to differ between the actual charism and between just fabricated “babble”. (If I can put it this way.)

Also, what it means to pray in tongues silently?

I have a good friend who has this gift, and I’ve met many people who also have it. They prayed over me many times and nothing. I never particularly wanted this anyway but went with it out of courtesy I guess. A few weeks ago after I took communion at mass I felt a strong flow inside of me and it burst out with words. I couldn’t understand what I was saying but it definitely did sound like a language, there was a pattern and a number of words were being repeated. I couldn’t do it later on at home, it felt fake and forced. Next sunday the same thing happened, only stronger. And then again. I guess this is me speaking in tongues.

Apparently some people get the gift of interpreting them so when you pray together they understand what you are saying. I have never seen this happen, but my above mentioned friend has. This makes sense because these gifts are supposed to edify the church, not just the individual who has the gift.

I think that praying in tongues silently means you feel the flow inside, you let go of everything and pray without any words. You just immerse yourself in it. This started happening to me before the weird words coming out and I have to say I prefer it. That said, it is possible to control the babbling and stay silent.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I am charismatic and contemplative. The same thing that called me to silence and essentially thoughtlessness in contemplation, is also what inspires speaking in tongues. Why would God call us to silence and sound that has no human meaning?

Because in the one we yearn for God and are made able to hear, and in the other our soul speaks in our surrender a language God understands perfectly while we don’t even know what we should be praying for.

I think this is really well put. I feel that speaking in tongues is very much like contemplation. Because you completely melt into God, you open up, you are silent. I know it sounds like a contradiction to say that praying in tongues is silent, but because our own words are absent, this babble is just an expression of a need that we feel inside. And this need is our deepest prayer that probably can’t be expressed in words anyway. I felt very peaceful for several days after my first experience.

 

[acacia12]

That’s exactly what it means. You see in a lot of the pentecostal and some evangelical sects that “eveeeeryone” speaks in “tongues”. They just convulse and babble incoherently because they feel they are connected to God. Is it a gift from God? Absolutely not. Does it make them feel closer to God? I imagine so. That’s why for their services I feel it’s harmless. But it bugs me when I hear one of them (an old friend from high school does this) try to justify it as saying that they speak in tongues because the Holy Spirit is within them. It’s a bunch of nonsense. If God was going to bestow the charism of tongues on someone it would be for a purpose that would benefit the person at the very least and the community itself at large. But that never happens with these groups. Everyone just likes to pretend they are having a seizure and speak whatever bumbling words comes to their mind. I would caution that it seems more demonic than angelic. If God wants to speak through someone He will speak clearly. Not forcing the body to violently react and speak nonsense as though a demonic entity was trying to force its way inside. I don’t buy into it.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I think this is really well put. I feel that speaking in tongues is very much like contemplation. Because you completely melt into God, you open up, you are silent. I know it sounds like a contradiction to say that praying in tongues is silent, but because our own words are absent, this babble is just an expression of a need that we feel inside. And this need is our deepest prayer that probably can’t be expressed in words anyway. I felt very peaceful for several days after my first experience.

A lovely explanation. Also, granny did an excellent job in her last post when she said:

…the person prays to God in unknown sounds by yielding to the action of the Holy Spirit. It is that simple.

 

[cjforJesus]

I believe granny and julia are wrong.The charism was not on the crowd but the apostles.They were speaking in multiple foreign languages.

The gift of tongues must have an interpreter otherwise it is of no benefit to thechurch.

 

[cjforJesus]

The modern charismatic movement though accepted by the Church seems to be getting far from Catholic belief. We receive the Holy Spirit at baptism.At confirmation we are annointed by the bishops hands and are sealed.We then receive the fullness of the Spirit.

What seems to be happening at these revivals is shaktipat,the transference of an unknown energy or demon
.It is said that being in the presence of just one person who has a risen kundalini is enough to cause others to react.

That may have been what was happening to the man i saw in mass because the woman in front of him is a kundalini yoga instructor who probably has aroused this serpent energy.It is quite probable he was reacting to it.

I know Julia has also dabbled in this false religion too which may explain why she believes this babling is from God.I do not believe it is.

 

[grannymh]

I believe granny and julia are wrong.The charism was not on the crowd but the apostles.They were speaking in multiple foreign languages.

The gift of tongues must have an interpreter otherwise it is of no benefit to thechurch.

Julia Mae and I speak from the Catholic Charismatic teachings. It is Catholic teaching that there is more than one gift of the Holy Spirit which employs Tongues. Not every gift which employs Tongues has to have an interpreter according to the *Catholic *Charismatic Renewal.

In post 21, I gave a brief description of two separate Holy Spirit gifts of Tongues. This description is what is used within the* Catholic* Church. If you have specific questions about the *Catholic *teachings, please do not hesitate to ask.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I know Julia has also dabbled in this false religion too which may explain why she believes this babling is from God.I do not believe it is.

You know nothing of the kind.

The only “false religion” I ever dabbled in was the Presbyterian Church. (<—Joke - not an attack on Presbyterians!) I will allow you time to retract this calumny before I report it.

 

[grannymh]

The modern charismatic movement though accepted by the Church seems to be getting far from Catholic belief. We receive the Holy Spirit at baptism.At confirmation we are annointed by the bishops hands and are sealed.We then receive the fullness of the Spirit.

What seems to be happening at these revivals is shaktipat,the transference of an unknown energy or demon
.It is said that being in the presence of just one person who has a risen kundalini is enough to cause others to react.

That may have been what was happening to the man i saw in mass because the woman in front of him is a kundalini yoga instructor who probably has aroused this serpent energy.It is quite probable he was reacting to it.

I know Julia has also dabbled in this false religion too which may explain why she believes this babling is from God.I do not believe it is.

Point one.

What is known as the “modern charismatic movement” is not the* Catholic* Charismatic Renewal.

Point two. For the record.

There is nothing wrong with not accepting the Catholic Charismatic Renewal which is within the Catholic Church.

Point three.

May I respectfully propose that if one is not interested in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal within the Catholic Church, one should at least find out what Catholic teachings are held by the* Catholic* Charismatic Renewal.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal adheres to the doctrines of all seven Sacraments, including the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation. It sounds as if non-Catholic groups are being discussed.

 

[grannymh]

The modern charismatic movement though accepted by the Church seems to be getting far from Catholic belief. We receive the Holy Spirit at baptism.At confirmation we are annointed by the bishops hands and are sealed.We then receive the fullness of the Spirit.

What seems to be happening at these revivals is shaktipat,the transference of an unknown energy or demon
.It is said that being in the presence of just one person who has a risen kundalini is enough to cause others to react.

That may have been what was happening to the man i saw in mass because the woman in front of him is a kundalini yoga instructor who probably has aroused this serpent energy.It is quite probable he was reacting to it.

I know Julia has also dabbled in this false religion too which may explain why she believes this babling is from God.I do not believe it is.

May I respectfully point out the policies of CAF regarding civil discourse and above all charity toward others. Ad hominem comments are frowned upon.

This thread is a polite, respectful discussion, essentially about two of the many gifts of the Holy Spirit. (For additional information, please read chapter 14, in the Gospel of John.)

There is no reason to comment that someone has dabbled in “this false religion” since we are talking about the *Catholic *religion.

In addition, I have learned quite a bit about the differences between general Pentecostalism and the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

I will be happy to answer respectful questions.

 

[cjforJesus]

The modern charismatic movement though accepted by the Church seems to be getting far from Catholic belief. We receive the Holy Spirit at baptism.At confirmation we are annointed by the bishops hands and are sealed.We then receive the fullness of the Spirit.

What seems to be happening at these revivals is shaktipat,the transference of an unknown energy or demon
.It is said that being in the presence of just one person who has a risen kundalini is enough to cause others to react.

That may have been what was happening to the man i saw in mass because the woman in front of him is a kundalini yoga instructor who probably has aroused this serpent energy.It is quite probable he was reacting to it.

I know Julia has also dabbled in this false religion too which may explain why she believes this babling is from God.I do not believe it is.

THE EFFECTS OF CONFIRMATION

1302 It is evident from its celebration that the effect of the sacrament of Confirmation is the special outpouring of the Holy Spirit as once granted to the apostles on the day of Pentecost.

1303 From this fact, Confirmation brings an increase and deepening of baptismal grace:

• it roots us more deeply in the divine filiation which makes us cry, “Abba! Father!”;117
• it unites us more firmly to Christ;
• it increases the gifts of the Holy Spirit in us;
• it renders our bond with the Church more perfect;118
• it gives us a special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by word and action as true witnesses of Christ, to confess the name of Christ boldly, and never to be ashamed of the Cross:119

Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the spirit of holy fear in God’s presence. Guard what you have received. God the Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your hearts.120
1304 Like Baptism which it completes, Confirmation is given only once, for it too imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual mark, the “character,” which is the sign that Jesus Christ has marked a Christian with the seal of his Spirit by clothing him with power from on high so that he may be his witness.121

1305 This “character” perfects the common priesthood of the faithful, received in Baptism, and "the confirmed person receives the power to profess faith in Christ publicly and as it were officially (quasi Ex officio)."122

 

[JeepAg]

I’m of the belief (as several on here are) that the gift of tongues was a gift bestowed on the Apostles and the crowd from the Holy Spirit. It was necessary because there were many, many folks there that spoke different languages. To me, I don’t think it’s important (and certainly not the point of the story) whether the Apostles were speaking in tongues or the crowd simply understood their language. The important thing was that it was a miracle and a gift of the Holy Spirit to spread the news of Jesus!

As for today’s Church, I don’t know if the Holy Spirit would grant this gift to members of a congregation where a common language is spoken. God does not limit himself to language, we do. I’ve seen people speak in tongues, and for the most part, it looks to be made up on the spot. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not accusing anyone of doing this. It’s just that I didn’t understand them, and it certainly wasn’t a language, just babbling. Most of the time I feel a sudden outburst of love for the Lord, it’s in English, just because that’s the best way I know how to praise God. I truly think that speaking in tongues means someone else needs to be able to understand it.

To clarify my idea, is that, while it may be inspired by the Holy Spirit or a tremendous outburst of love for God, I don’t think it can truly be the gift of Tongues if nobody else can understand it. That was the true point of the original gift of Tongues. It was for God’s sake, it was entirely for the people that were present. Thoughts?
:grouphug:

 

[grannymh]

I’m of the belief (as several on here are) that the gift of tongues was a gift bestowed on the Apostles and the crowd from the Holy Spirit. It was necessary because there were many, many folks there that spoke different languages. To me, I don’t think it’s important (and certainly not the point of the story) whether the Apostles were speaking in tongues or the crowd simply understood their language. The important thing was that it was a miracle and a gift of the Holy Spirit to spread the news of Jesus!

As for today’s Church, I don’t know if the Holy Spirit would grant this gift to members of a congregation where a common language is spoken. God does not limit himself to language, we do.** I’ve seen people speak in tongues, and for the most part, it looks to be made up on the spot.** Don’t get me wrong, I’m not accusing anyone of doing this. It’s just that I didn’t understand them, and it certainly wasn’t a language, just babbling. Most of the time I feel a sudden outburst of love for the Lord, it’s in English, just because that’s the best way I know how to praise God. I truly think that speaking in tongues means someone else needs to be able to understand it.

To clarify my idea, is that, while it may be inspired by the Holy Spirit or a tremendous outburst of love for God, I don’t think it can truly be the gift of Tongues if nobody else can understand it. That was the true point of the original gift of Tongues. It was for God’s sake, it was entirely for the people that were present. Thoughts?
:grouphug:

I put in bold the above sentence which truly interests me.

Without violating your privacy, would it be possible to describe the situation in which you saw people speak in tongues?

I ask this because in past threads, understanding what actually was going on, – for example, was there a period of quiet before an individual or a group spoke in tongues – has enabled me to determine if what was seen was a Catholic charismatic gathering held in accord with the Pastor of the Catholic parish and the Bishop of the diocese.

When I could determine the nature or environment of the “speaking in tongues”, I could then determine if what was happening was correct Catholicism or if it is an abuse of the *Catholic *Charismatic Renewal or if it were simply one of the many other Pentecostal or Protestant groups.

When a Catholic observes an abuse of Catholicism in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal appropriately connected with the Diocese, she or he should immediately notify the Pastor and/or Bishop’s liaison to the Renewal who is usually a Vicar for Spirituality. Or notify the Bishop himself. Note: in any case, when one is interested in a Charismatic group, one should check the status of the group with the Diocese. The operator at the Chancery would be able to direct one to the proper person.

What the vast majority of Catholics do not realize is that in St. Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians, there are actually two, yes two, different, yes different, Holy Spirit gifts which employ the use of Tongues.

Personally, I have not figured out why some people want to eavesdrop on someone’s prayers to God. Could it be that someone is interested in hearing about the sins of a person asking God for mercy?
Any thoughts?

 

[vardaquinn]

What the vast majority of Catholics do not realize is that in St. Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians, there are actually two, yes two, different, yes different, Holy Spirit gifts which employ the use of Tongues.

Thank you! Many people are very confused about that. St. Paul has two different sorts of the gift of tongues. A form given for instruction and a form given for prayer. Obviously the form that’s instruction requires an interpretation if the language isn’t known. But the form that’s prayer obviously doesn’t… it’s recipient is God Himself, so He knows what’s being expressed. It doesn’t matter if anybody understands it… the only person who would need to is God.

I myself have the prayer form of this gift, as do many many many people I know. It’s a very profound gift, very symbolic, very powerful and very widely given. St. Paul makes clear the purpose of this gift in 1 Cor 14:4 “One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.” The word used in Greek indicates a building up of, literally… builds a temple to God in his heart.

Thus, praying in tongues builds the individual up into the living Temple of God, through praising God in the power of the Holy Spirit. And then by the right order of praise in the individual’s heart, he is then able to go and bring the Holy Spirit to other’s. It’s a very old and commonly accepted principle: the effects of our apostolate depend in a very concrete way upon our own interior life.

For people who are still confused about this gift, I recommend this 1 minute sound byte from Dr. Peter Kreeft: peterkreeft.com/audio/misc/peter-kreeft_gift-of-tongues.mp3

 

[JeepAg]

Sure, I went to a Catholic school from 6-12 grade. One year, our new theology teacher (from the northeast) claimed to be charismatic and would stand in front of the class, “speaking in tongues.” Which, as you can imagine, led to middle and high school students trying to mimic. It would be in the middle of class at “reflection” time, etc. To me, granted I’m more traditional, it was just babble. It might have been for the sake of “appearing more holy” or trying to impress some high school kids. I wasn’t buying it. I found it to be extremely distracting and really took away from the class exercise of reflection. That being said, I don’t know if it was intentional or no (I’m led to believe she was just making noise), but I’m not going to hold it against her. Everybody worships different and that’s fine. I just don’t like seeing people do things for appearance sake. And I’ve had to work on judging folks that I think are. It’s not so much a problem now as it was in high school.

And as for the eaves dropping statement, if I’m in public, I’m not going to be vocal with my prayers. Only God knows what I’m praying for, unless I’m singing or responding at Mass. I just can’t think of an instance where the Holy Spirit would give the gift of tongues when someone is having a one-on-one conversation with God because, as I said in my initial post, God is not limited to language barriers as we are. Are there documented cases of folks speaking in tongues? Absolutely. Are there overblown stories about folks speaking in tongues? Absolutely. It seems to me that this a gift that would only be given in instances where it is vital to people hearing the news about Jesus. Maybe you don’t believe the same thing, and that’s perfectly awesome! I’m not trying to judge but wanted to give my two cents on the subject matter. Seems like it’s a pretty good debate so far!