Speaking in Tongues

[JessMarie]

I’m not sure if this is the right place to post this…just had few questions about speaking in tongues.

Last week I was at a retreat for young adult Catholics, and we had several hours of adoration one night. I was kneeling in my pew, saying my rosary, when one of the other girls walked up to me and asked if she could pray over me. I didn’t really know how to respond, but agreed. She sat next to me, put her hands on my head, and started jabbering away in a different language, not one that I recognized at all. Tears started streaming down her face and she could barely talk because she was sobbing so hard. After a couple of minutes she gave me a hug, told me I looked like I need praying for, and walked back to her own pew. I will admit, I’m going through some very difficult times right now, and I was thinking about how I needed lots of prayers at the moment.

When I arrived home, I started reading about it on the internet, and found out that it really isn’t “condoned”, if you will, with most traditional Roman Catholics. (I may be wrong about this, it was just a few opinions that I read.)
What surprised me was the fact that the girl who did this is one of the most traditional, non-charismatic Catholics I’ve ever met…so why/how did she do this?

Sorry about this being so long, I tend to ramble. Also, I know almost nothing about this, so if I’m wrong about some things, I apologize.

 

[Marocchino]

Not to be glib, but if she is traditional perhaps she was praying in Latin?

Here is a great article on speaking in tongues that may clarify the issue for you: scripturecatholic.com/tongues.html

 

[JessMarie]

Not to be glib, but if she is traditional perhaps she was praying in Latin?

No, I speak fluent Latin and Spanish, and bits of German and French, and it was certainly not any of those. It wasn’t any language I recognized, if it was a language at all. Maybe it was just gibberish?

 

[DarkLight]

No, I speak fluent Latin and Spanish, and bits of German and French, and it was certainly not any of those. It wasn’t any language I recognized, if it was a language at all. Maybe it was just gibberish?

This is possible, but I’d avoid jumping to conclusions unless you know that it’s not just a different language.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

This is possible, but I’d avoid jumping to conclusions unless you know that it’s not just a different language.

Well let’s also not factor out the probability that she had a lapse of judgement. Maybe she wanted to experiment with that petecostal approach to speaking in tongues (that personally I liken to satanism). It’s all a bunch of nonsense nowadays. I could see the biblical sense for speaking in tongues when it allowed someone to spread Gods word in a native language to a group of people when the speaker didn’t know the language. But the whole “gibberish” nonsense is downright demonic. Not saying demons are involved. I mean demonic aesthetically.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Tongue-speaking can also have demonic origins. When people are unfaithful and motivated by pride and not love for God, God can allow demons to enter the church to punish the unfaithful. These demons can appear holy and good, and inspire tongue-speaking and other speech, but they are really deceivers who wish to confuse the faithful and lead them away from the truth (cf. Ezek. 14:6-11; 1 Kings 22:22-23). Paul warns that some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). This is why John tells us to “test the spirits to see whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

This applies to 99.9999% of pentecostal “ministers” including a friend of mine from high school. They “encourage” everyone at their “church” to speak in tongues after they give them the “gift” of the Holy Spirit. As if the Holy Spirit was a piece of candy that their unsanctified self ordained hands could give out

 

[ThomasMartin]

I’m not sure if this is the right place to post this…just had few questions about speaking in tongues.

Last week I was at a retreat for young adult Catholics, and we had several hours of adoration one night. I was kneeling in my pew, saying my rosary, when one of the other girls walked up to me and asked if she could pray over me. I didn’t really know how to respond, but agreed. She sat next to me, put her hands on my head, and started jabbering away in a different language, not one that I recognized at all. Tears started streaming down her face and she could barely talk because she was sobbing so hard. After a couple of minutes she gave me a hug, told me I looked like I need praying for, and walked back to her own pew. I will admit, I’m going through some very difficult times right now, and I was thinking about how I needed lots of prayers at the moment.

When I arrived home, I started reading about it on the internet, and found out that it really isn’t “condoned”, if you will, with most traditional Roman Catholics. (I may be wrong about this, it was just a few opinions that I read.)
What surprised me was the fact that the girl who did this is one of the most traditional, non-charismatic Catholics I’ve ever met…so why/how did she do this?

Sorry about this being so long, I tend to ramble. Also, I know almost nothing about this, so if I’m wrong about some things, I apologize.

Hi, I thought that you might want an opinion from someone, that is actually pro-charismatic, I understand why many people on these forums are very careful about tongues and about the Charismatic Renewal as a whole, but I still feel a need to defend its position.

Speaking about charismatic gifts, and tongues particulary, as about something “demonic” doesn’t seem right to me. Charismatics are not enwoking any spirit from the spiritual world - but the Holy Spirit, God himself. They surrender to God and give their lives to him during prayers through worship. Why would God let some evil spirits to control them, if they call for Him?

"11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[a] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” " Luke 11:11-13

And about the gift on tongues. Why would God let you speak gibberish? He would not, that is the point. I myself had a great desire for spiritual gifts, and I still have, and at a certain point, I felt need to try to speak in tongues (or rather pray in tongues). Many times I just didnt know what to say during prayer, nothing seemed enough. While praying in tongues, you do not have to worry about your words, you just put all your belief, faith, hope, love into the trust between you and God. You just let Holy Spirit to work with you. It is not about speaking in different languages. It is all about trust, between you and God. You trust him, to give meaning to your words, to your prayers, even if you do not understand them. You trust him, that what others (and you) see as gibberish, is something good and something, that God likes.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Hi, I thought that you might want an opinion from someone, that is actually pro-charismatic, I understand why many people on these forums are very careful about tongues and about the Charismatic Renewal as a whole, but I still feel a need to defend its position.

Speaking about charismatic gifts, and tongues particulary, as about something “demonic” doesn’t seem right to me. Charismatics are not enwoking any spirit from the spiritual world - but the Holy Spirit, God himself. They surrender to God and give their lives to him during prayers through worship. Why would God let some evil spirits to control them, if they call for Him?

"11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[a] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” " Luke 11:11-13

And about the gift on tongues. Why would God let you speak gibberish? He would not, that is the point. I myself had a great desire for spiritual gifts, and I still have, and at a certain point, I felt need to try to speak in tongues (or rather pray in tongues). Many times I just didnt know what to say during prayer, nothing seemed enough. While praying in tongues, you do not have to worry about your words, you just put all your belief, faith, hope, love into the trust between you and God. You just let Holy Spirit to work with you. It is not about speaking in different languages. It is all about trust, between you and God. You trust him, to give meaning to your words, to your prayers, even if you do not understand them. You trust him, that what others (and you) see as gibberish, is something good and something, that God likes.

You can accomplish the same thing by putting more emotion into a hail mary or an our father. Without the need of adding protestant stylings to your spirituality. I just don’t understand the fascination on this whole movement. I pray the Church reverse its decision and crack down on the charismatic movement before it causes scandal.

 

[Tiber_Swimmer]

You can accomplish the same thing by putting more emotion into a hail mary or an our father. Without the need of adding protestant stylings to your spirituality. I just don’t understand the fascination on this whole movement. I pray the Church reverse its decision and crack down on the charismatic movement before it causes scandal.

I am glad I came across this put-down of the movement for spiritual renewal and the work of the Holy Spirit in the church AFTER I moved from the Episcopal to the Catholic Church. It was contact with deeply spiritual Catholics that helped me to make the move, despite being a cradle Episcopalian, so I thought I would find a widespread spiritual hunger and desire for spiritual gifts that would power the Church’s growth in spirituality. Instead I come across this kind of suspicion and rejection of the movement as a Protestant aberration. God help the Catholic Church if the work of the Holy Spirit is seen as an aberration! Speaking in tongues is the very least of the many gifts of the Holy Spirit, and is a precious blessing, but not one that should be urged on everyone nor used to assess spirituality. There may well be demonic perversions of it, although I have not knowingly encountered any… We have seen many other real perversions in both Catholic and Protestant history, burning each other to death over differences in faith, for instance, which is why St. Paul put much higher value on the gift of interpretation!

Incidentally, the most powerful and well-argued presentation of the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church today that I have ever read was written by the Holy Father’s confessor! So I, although a newbie, may not be far from the traditional Catholic faith.

And as for the Charismatic Movement being likely to cause scandal, I would say God forbid that we should have more scandals than we already do, but the Holy Spirit is more likely to root out the causes of such scandals than to contribute to them…

 

[ThomasMartin]

You can accomplish the same thing by putting more emotion into a hail mary or an our father. Without the need of adding protestant stylings to your spirituality. I just don’t understand the fascination on this whole movement. I pray the Church reverse its decision and crack down on the charismatic movement before it causes scandal.

Please, my friend, consider your words. Why would you want an end for this wonderful movement? Yes, it is something new, it is something different from the traditional spirituality, but it does not have to be bad.

What should cause a scandal? I know, that people praying in tongues, crying or laughting, during deep worship prayers… are… well, strange… but is it stranger than what we know from our saints? Bilocation, levitation, inedia and so much more.

From my own experience, charismatic experiences brought me closer to studying the Scriptures, closer to understanding the value of the Eucharist, and helped me to deeper my relationship with God. Of course, people need to be careful with these experiences, but that is why the charismatic renewal would never be able to exists without or outside the Church, and remain strong, true and safe.

Also, I would not be so quick at putting the CCHR into one bag with Pentacostals and other protestant charismatics. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal unlike them, has the traditions and the Magisterium of the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I do not speak for every charismatic, and I am sure, that some of them do not understand the depth and funlless of the charismatic renewal, but on the other hand, there are those, who fall into same mistakes in other parts of the Church. You do not say, that Catholics worship Virgin Mary just because some of them, especially in Latin America, maybe do it (unknowingly). So please, do not be harsh on the Charismatics because some of them went too far, or because their way of spiritual and emotional experience is too distant from yours.

I am writing this in a good will,
God Bless!

Martin

 

[BDEklof]

You can accomplish the same thing by putting more emotion into a hail mary or an our father. Without the need of adding protestant stylings to your spirituality. I just don’t understand the fascination on this whole movement. I pray the Church reverse its decision and crack down on the charismatic movement before it causes scandal.

I don't believe that this is necessary.  I don't speak in tongues myself, but I respect the Holy Spirit and all his gifts. I pray you do also.  I have never heard any priest speak to a believer with the evil hatred that you, however, do.  Are you sure you are discerning a call to the priesthood, or perhaps it is to the holy field of editorial journalism?

"Judge NOT, that you be not judged."  Mt 7:!   Words of Christ

 

[Ohana]

Thank you Thomas Martin. I appreciate your comments. As a neophyte prayer in tongues I get a little shakey after comments like those by St. Patrick333 Your comments were reassuring.

Patrick, I recommend that you place yourself in the presence of the Lord and pray for enlightenment about this. We cannot lead you to greater understanding and less fear, but maybe you will allow him to do so. We all need to be loving to one another no matter what our particular spirituality. The Church needs all of its parts.

 

[Sirach2]

As usual whenever this topic comes up, there are some with very hardened hearts and malformed ideas about this lawful renewal in the church, who spread confusion, doubt, and pure angst about the work of the Holy Spirit. This topic just closed in Traditional Catholics with this excellent post by our eminent member, JReducation, who is very knowledgable about what he speaks.

**RE: Charismatic Renewal. **

Common’ folks. This is the silliest conversation on the Internet and the Internet is pretty big. The Catholic Charismatic Movement is Catholic, because it is approved by the Holy See. Canonically, it has a legal right to call itself Catholic. It even has an office in the Holy See and so do the Traditionalists. Both sides should stop complaining, because the Holy See is being fair to both. The Charismatics have a department for them and the traditionalists have the Ecclesia Dei Commission.

Secondly, are there individuals in the Catholic Charismatic Movement who are strongly influenced by Protestantism? Of course there are. Does that make the movement Protestant? No more than having Augustinian roots makes Lutheranism Catholic. There are always crossovers and not always bad either.

One of the things that the Catholic Church has recently said that it admires about the Evangelical Protestants is their love for Scripture. OK, they don’t always interpret it correctly. But more Evangelicals than Catholics read their bibles. Many Catholics, who had never opened a bible, started to do so when they experienced the Charismatic Movement.

Is the theology of the Charismatic Movement incorrect? No it’s not. There can be differences in theology and both be very correct. This exists in the Catholic Church today. There are different theological positions on purgatory between Roman Catholics and all other Catholics. The Holy See says that both sides are correct. There is a difference in the definition of grace between the Jesuit school of theology and the Dominican school of theology. The Holy See says that both sides are correct and threatened to excommunicate anyone who said that either side was a heretic. There is a difference in theology between Aquinas and Bonaventure on the priesthood and the Eucharist. The Church says that both men are correct.** In other words, not every theological difference has to be a cause for a debate or a division.**

Are there great truths in Protestantism? There better be, since the first Protestants were Catholic. They must have kept some of the things they took with them. Not everything in Protestantism is heresy.

Is there heresy in Protestantism? Duhhhh, there would not have been excommunications and executions if there were none.

Have we Catholics always dealt well with differences? Noooooooooooo. Just look at the attitudes that Roman Catholics have toward Eastern Catholics. Many Roman Catholics treat them like foster children, even though they were Catholic when the Irish and French were still running around in bear skins and loin cloths.

Is anyone obliged to participate in the Charismatic Movement? NO
So . . . the best thing to do is for those who do not want to participate, not to do so and to keep their opinions to themselves, because the Charismatics are no doing any harm to them.

I truly fail to see the benefit to the Church to have a standoff between Charismatic Catholics and Traditionalist Catholics. In his first letter, St. Peter reminds us not to let criticisms and negativity cross our lips. He wrote this for a reason. The people whom he shepherded were doing this exact same thing. Don’t think that the Epistles were written on whim. They were in response to real situations. There were camps in the Church during the time of the Apostles and Peter and Paul had to tell people to knock it off. You don’t belong to Peter or to Paul. You don’t let a bad thought about your neighbor cross past your lips to the ears of another. And you mind your own business and work on your salvation.

No one is damned to hell through the actions of another. That’s horrible theology. Man has freedom. If he is dammed to hell, it is because of his choices, not those of someone else. This nonsense of this one or that group are leading souls to hell is just that, nonsense. People who go to hell choose to go there. People who make poor choices, very innocently, are not culpable, because there was no malice intended.

Let Catholics praise God in tongues, in Latin or in Swahili. As long as they praise God, God is happy.

There have been several very good teaching posts about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the church’s approval of the CCR. If you need the links, please identify the area you have a problem with. I’ll get back to you. Otherwise, if you come here to badmouth the CCR, kindly take Brother JR’s advice and “keep your opinions to yourself.”

 

[Aussiegal]

Thank-you for posting this Sirach.

When that thread closed, I sent JReduction a PM to thank him for his insight and charity. Please people, it is O.K to voice your concerns but please do so in charity and not with disrespectful and hateful comments.

God reaches out to us in many different ways, who are we to decide how and when he will do this or stand in judgement of others in the way they pray.

 

[Trishie]

I’m going through some very difficult times right now, and I was thinking about how I needed lots of prayers at the moment.

JessMarie, happy to offer some prayer in the chapel today and at Mass for you tomorrow
The Mass is the “source and summit” of Catholic life, so in your own participation in the Mass you are finding a great a source of strength.
May God continue to bless you abundantly

 

[thistle]

I’m not sure if this is the right place to post this…just had few questions about speaking in tongues.

Last week I was at a retreat for young adult Catholics, and we had several hours of adoration one night. I was kneeling in my pew, saying my rosary, when one of the other girls walked up to me and asked if she could pray over me. I didn’t really know how to respond, but agreed. She sat next to me, put her hands on my head, and started jabbering away in a different language, not one that I recognized at all. Tears started streaming down her face and she could barely talk because she was sobbing so hard. After a couple of minutes she gave me a hug, told me I looked like I need praying for, and walked back to her own pew. I will admit, I’m going through some very difficult times right now, and I was thinking about how I needed lots of prayers at the moment.

When I arrived home, I started reading about it on the internet, and found out that it really isn’t “condoned”, if you will, with most traditional Roman Catholics. (I may be wrong about this, it was just a few opinions that I read.)
What surprised me was the fact that the girl who did this is one of the most traditional, non-charismatic Catholics I’ve ever met…so why/how did she do this?

Sorry about this being so long, I tend to ramble. Also, I know almost nothing about this, so if I’m wrong about some things, I apologize.

Frankly, I believe all of such people to be fakes. They are simply spouting gibberish.
They claim to be speaking in tongues but I bet none of them have submitted themselves to the Church to see if they have a genuine gift.

 

[Rainaldo]

Frankly, I believe all of such people to be fakes. They are simply spouting gibberish.
They claim to be speaking in tongues but I bet none of them have submitted themselves to the Church to see if they have a genuine gift.

I agree.

I don’t know about Church judgment on tongues in the sense that you mean, but some of these people have submitted themselves to linguists and neuroscientists. A news show did a report concerning the latter: Nightline, Sunday July 27, 2008: youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEc and the Penn Medicine study uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia.htm

 

[Ohana]

I agree.

I don’t know about Church judgment on tongues in the sense that you mean, but some of these people have submitted themselves to linguists and neuroscientists. A news show did a report concerning the latter: Nightline, Sunday July 27, 2008: youtube.com/watch?v=NZbQBajYnEc and the Penn Medicine study uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia.htm

by all means lets use nightline and utube as definitive studies! Maybe CBS,NBC and ABC and FOX can do replicative studies!

 

[Ohana]

Thank-you for posting this Sirach.

When that thread closed, I sent JReduction a PM to thank him for his insight and charity. **Please people, it is O.K to voice your concerns but please do so in charity and not with disrespectful and hateful comments.**God reaches out to us in many different ways, who are we to decide how and when he will do this or stand in judgement of others in the way they pray.

OK, mea culpa.

 

[Sirach2]

Ohana, you have no reason to send a “mea culpa” - rather, I thank you for rebuking Rainaldo, and we probably should include Thistle. Having done a search on the latter, he has 115 posts against speaking in tongues. Wouldn’t you think he’d give up the ghost already? As if those who received this gift are going to be put off by his comments?

I always marvel that people who do not have the faintest idea about the gift, nor have received it personally, apppoint themselves as masters in judging God’s activity in others.