Speaking in Tongues

[BluesPicker]

The answer is a categorical "YES " some people, especially priests can pray and do pray in tongues.

   Your conclusion about being doomed is wrong  about being doomed if  one can't pray in tongues.

 It is not that God Loves others more than some who can pray in tongues.  Not everyone has this particular Gift of the Holy Spirit. 

       It is equally wrong or even far worse  for those who have supposedly received  Charismatic Gifts of the Holy Spirit to  torment  other Believers by making the false declaration that  all the Christian Faithful have to be able to speak in tongues.   I say this because  I don't know what could possibly make a person think that if one can't speak in tongues they are doomed.

  We are not supposed to even desire Gifts of the Holy Spirit because to do so is a lack of faith the  He knows how to dispense    His  Gifts.   To taunt people can lead people into a lot of spiritual trouble because this could lead others to open themselves to demonic attack.

   But everyone is allowed to have personal beliefs but opinions shared should reflect Catholic Doctrine or  Theology.   But let me put this way,  not believing in the manifestation of the gift of tongues is not a sin.  It is an impediment due to a lack of understanding. 

    Tempting people to perform or do something they can't by making them fear they are doomed is  a  sin.  And  I am not accusing anyone has done this here; but  there are some problems in some Charismatic Groups and this is one.  The other is attempting to perform solemn exorcisms.

There are problems in the Church else where in matters of private prayer. So Charismatics are not the only ones with problems.

Peace,
BP

 

[Sirach2]

(1)** We are not supposed to even desire** Gifts of the Holy Spirit because to do so is a lack of faith the He knows how to dispense His Gifts. To taunt people can lead people into a lot of spiritual trouble because (2) this could lead others to open themselves to demonic attack.

Both of these concepts were debunked in a very good article here by Jimmy Akin. (CAF Apologist)
Since the gifts in question are the charismatic ones (prophecy, tongues, interpretation of tongues, etc.), Paul certainly is not discouraging people from wanting or even asking for these gifts. At one point he even instructs them to ask for such a gift: (cont’d)

This does not follow. If you ask God to give you a gift, that does not mean that you are creating an avenue for the devil to do something in your life. Asking God for a grace is never itself an avenue for the devil to do something. You must be doing something else (in addition to asking God) to open yourself up to evil.

It would be more likely that people who are overly concerned about speaking in tongues would run ahead of God’s grace and manufacture the experience themselves–so that it is of natural origin–but if their wills are set on following God and not the devil then the he will not have an opening through which to affect them.

 

[gh4]

Never heard a priest pray in tongues, not even the priest back east who was a charismatic priest. Never.

What does speaking in tongues accomplish???

 

[Ohana]

Both of these concepts were debunked in a very good article here by Jimmy Akin. (CAF Apologist)
Since the gifts in question are the charismatic ones (prophecy, tongues, interpretation of tongues, etc.), Paul certainly is not discouraging people from wanting or even asking for these gifts. At one point he even instructs them to ask for such a gift: (cont’d)

This does not follow. If you ask God to give you a gift, that does not mean that you are creating an avenue for the devil to do something in your life. Asking God for a grace is never itself an avenue for the devil to do something. You must be doing something else (in addition to asking God) to open yourself up to evil.

It would be more likely that people who are overly concerned about speaking in tongues would run ahead of God’s grace and manufacture the experience themselves–so that it is of natural origin–but if their wills are set on following God and not the devil then the he will not have an opening through which to affect them.

Right, Bluespicker, there is a difference between asking and demanding.

Years ago when I went through a life in the Spirit seminar we were taught that at the last portion of the classes we would be able to ask the Spirit for a gift. Most people were asking for prayer tongues whereas I as asking for ABT - anything but! They freaked me out a little - OK a lot. I had problems with giving up control, having something “else” pray through me. Partly that was my mindset professionally and truthfully, a lot of my own brokeness. It has taken some growth on my part, the mentoring of a sister -biological- , and some other life experiences for me to get to the point of desiring prayer tongues. I said this in another post but maybe it is worth saying again just to let people know the path that one person has taken to this gift. I had to get myself and my fears out of the way, and come to trust the Spirit before I received this gift.

 

[grannymh]

What does speaking in tongues accomplish???

It depends on what a person wants to accomplish and, possibly, how it would be accomplished.
Would you like to give an example of what someone would like to accomplish so I could reply?
Thank you.

 

[grannymh]

Right, Bluespicker, there is a difference between asking and demanding.

Years ago when I went through a life in the Spirit seminar we were taught that at the last portion of the classes we would be able to ask the Spirit for a gift. Most people were asking for prayer tongues whereas I as asking for ABT - anything but! They freaked me out a little - OK a lot. I had problems with giving up control, having something “else” pray through me. Partly that was my mindset professionally and truthfully, a lot of my own brokeness. It has taken some growth on my part, the mentoring of a sister -biological- , and some other life experiences for me to get to the point of desiring prayer tongues. I said this in another post but maybe it is worth saying again just to let people know the path that one person has taken to this gift. I had to get myself and my fears out of the way, and come to trust the Spirit before I received this gift.

Thank you. Thank you.

I thought I was the only person who got a lot out of a Life in the Spirit seminar but was not going to seek Prayer Tongues when I was prayed over.

 

[Sirach2]

There is an example I heard awhile ago which might help. Think about an infant who has not learned to talk yet. How does he communicate with his parents? Does it not use totally nonsensical noises and syllables to convey its love and joy in their presence? And does the parent understand what is being communicated? You betcha! Not literally, but they absolutely sense that their child delights in talking to mom and dad. In fact, loving parents will goo-goo the most unintelligible nonsense back to the infant so it recognizes their efforts to talk back. What a loving discourse! Who says it needs language, when the love between them is being exchanged?

On an adult level, when we want to express something we are feeling interiorly to Our Creator, but don’t have the ability to select appropriate language, we use glossalalia, which is a spiritual communication that is not a specific language. Indeed, forming sounds in our known language would be a barrier, for the mind would be occupied in choosing words. But the spirit may not be fully absorbed in its deepest center, as it strives to pour out its depth to God, who truly listens and hears what its spirit is communicating. It is nothing less than pure prayer, in a form that not many are used to, and that many will not even attempt to understand.

When I want to praise God with all that I am capable of, my mind just cannot compose adequate words, when the spirit is so full of love that words get in the way. It is very helpful just to adopt silly goo-goos (to use the example above). Believe it or not, as St. Paul says, man’s spirit becomes edified. We KNOW we are praying and God is listening. Others of course, will not be able to judge, any more than a roomful of people can judge the communication going on between parents and their infant.

 

[grannymh]

There is an example I heard awhile ago which might help. Think about an infant who has not learned to talk yet. How does he communicate with his parents? Does it not use totally nonsensical noises and syllables to convey its love and joy in their presence? And does the parent understand what is being communicated? You betcha! Not literally, but they absolutely sense that their child delights in talking to mom and dad. In fact, loving parents will goo-goo the most unintelligible nonsense back to the infant so it recognizes their efforts to talk back. What a loving discourse! Who says it needs language, when the love between them is being exchanged?

On an adult level, when we want to express something we are feeling interiorly to Our Creator, but don’t have the ability to select appropriate language, we use glossalalia, which is a spiritual communication that is not a specific language. Indeed, forming sounds in our known language would be a barrier, for the mind would be occupied in choosing words. But the spirit may not be fully absorbed in its deepest center, as it strives to pour out its depth to God, who truly listens and hears what its spirit is communicating. It is nothing less than pure prayer, in a form that not many are used to, and that many will not even attempt to understand.

When I want to praise God with all that I am capable of, my mind just cannot compose adequate words, when the spirit is so full of love that words get in the way. It is very helpful just to adopt silly goo-goos (to use the example above). Believe it or not, as St. Paul says, man’s spirit becomes edified. We KNOW we are praying and God is listening. Others of course, will not be able to judge, any more than a roomful of people can judge the communication going on between parents and their infant.

This is a wonderful example especially in reference to the mind.
Yet, when I compare the example to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, I find a slightly different position on the use of glossalalia. So that I understand the example correctly – Each time that the word “spirit” is used, does it automatically refer to our human spirit? Is there any use of the word “spirit” to mean “The Holy Spirit”? Thank you.

 

[Sirach2]

This is a wonderful example especially in reference to the mind.
Yet, when I compare the example to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, I find a slightly different position on the use of glossalalia. So that I understand the example correctly – Each time that the word “spirit” is used, does it automatically refer to our human spirit? Is there any use of the word “spirit” to mean “The Holy Spirit”? Thank you.

Good point, Granny. Yes, the difference is that we allow the Holy Spirit within us to communicate to Our Father what we find difficulty conveying if we strive to use words composed in our language center. The example I used of the parent/infant referred to the human spirit, but it was an analogy only to convey what takes place when we pour out our praise, groaning, or whatever, to God with the help of the Holy Spirit. Does that help?

Groanings, whether they consist of intense love, praise, awe, or travail, need an outlet that just isn’t fulfilled by silence. When we are at a football game and cheering the home team, it helps to release the intensity when we shout out our support. Another poor analogy, but I think the point may be clear enough. For those special times, prayer tongues is a wonderful release and edification.

 

[Sirach2]

One more point — I think people misconstrue the use of prayer tongues in thinking that one who has this gift uses it exclusively or constantly, as some sort of superior prayer form. That is not the case. I understand that it is for those special occasions when one just cannot articulate its prayer in its deepest form, and allows the Holy Spirit to pray within. Truly, one continues to pray daily using its private devotions and/or public liturgical prayer, or the use of loving ejaculations.

 

[Ohana]

One more point — I think people misconstrue the use of prayer tongues in thinking that one who has this gift uses it exclusively or constantly, as some sort of superior prayer form. That is not the case. I understand that it is for those special occasions when one just cannot articulate its prayer in its deepest form, and allows the Holy Spirit to pray within. Truly, one continues to pray daily using its private devotions and/or public liturgical prayer, or the use of loving ejaculations.

Yes! The sister I spoke of earlier often uses the loving ejaculations throughout her busy day. It is like a running conversation and adoration of Our Lord. I am retired so not so constricted by time, so I try to make frequent daily Mass. Other prayer forms - the Rosary, Chaplet of Divine Mercy, LOTH, and other prayer forms are common to the people involved with this spirituality. Given my control issues, not completely conquered (if ever !) I like to pray the suscipe prayer of St. Ignatius from time to time.

 

[Sirach2]

Thank you for your reflection, Ohana.

Mortal tongue cannot tell of the blessing I received when I prayed St. Ignatius’s Suscipe from my heart. For a long while, I couldn’t bring myself to mean all the words, but one day, when God was everything to me, I surrendered all to Him. For those who aren’t familiar, here it is.
Take, Lord, and receive all my liberty,
my memory, my understanding
and my entire will,
All I have and call my own.

You have given all to me.
To you, Lord, I return it.

Everything is yours; do with it what you will.
Give me only your love and your grace.
That is enough for me.

 

[Ohana]

YES

 

[Podo2005]

You can accomplish the same thing by putting more emotion into a hail mary or an our father. Without the need of adding protestant stylings to your spirituality. I just don’t understand the fascination on this whole movement. I pray the Church reverse its decision and crack down on the charismatic movement before it causes scandal.

The Charismatic renewal was approved by the Pope

You can also find bits of the gifts of the Holy Spirit from Scripture(I Corinthians 12,14)… St. Paul talks about speaking in tongues and the various gifts of the Spirit given

God Bless,
Zac

 

[Tiber_Swimmer]

YES

i have found these exchanges edifying in the very best sense of the word. As a recent convert from a different tradition (English episcopalian) with experience of the charismatic movement outside Catholicism I have been delighted to see that so many things I found precious before are being honored and cherished–if occasionally misunderstood and vilified–in my new spiritual home. I was particularly encouraged by the Pope’s forbidding, on pain of excommunication, no less! anyone from calling such opposing views heretical. I am happier than ever in my new home.

 

[Sirach2]

i have found these exchanges edifying in the very best sense of the word. As a recent convert from a different tradition (English episcopalian) with experience of the charismatic movement outside Catholicism I have been delighted to see that so many things I found precious before are being honored and cherished–if occasionally misunderstood and vilified–in my new spiritual home. I was particularly encouraged by the Pope’s forbidding, on pain of excommunication, no less! anyone from calling such opposing views heretical.
I am happier than ever in my new home.

:hug1: What a delightful post! May God bless your journey with much joy and abundant graces!

 

[Rainaldo]

I was particularly encouraged by the Pope’s forbidding, on pain of excommunication, no less! anyone from calling such opposing views heretical.

I’ve never heard this.

 

[datritle]

You can accomplish the same thing by putting more emotion into a hail mary or an our father. Without the need of adding protestant stylings to your spirituality. I just don’t understand the fascination on this whole movement. I pray the Church reverse its decision and crack down on the charismatic movement before it causes scandal.

exactly. if it walks like a protestant, and talks like a protestant…well…

 

[grannymh]

exactly. if it walks like a protestant, and talks like a protestant…well…

Of course, I respect your observation.

In fact, I have briefly studied the documentation regarding both Pentecostal and Protestant positions. Side by side, I have studied the Catholic Charismatic Renewal position. In addition, I have studied the valid concerns about this Renewal within the Catholic Church.

Looking at the Mulligan Stew I have before me, it dawned on me that the place where I need to research the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is in Scripture, its very self. If you would kindly read post 44 in this thread, you will find my start in Scripture. My idea is to study the Holy Spirit’s gifts from square one–primarily the two gifts which employ Tongues. Then compare that to 1967 and 2012.

For those interested in starting with Scripture. Post 44, this thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9877459&postcount=44

 

[grannymh]

Of course, I respect your observation.

In fact, I have briefly studied the documentation regarding both Pentecostal and Protestant positions. Side by side, I have studied the Catholic Charismatic Renewal position. In addition, I have studied the valid concerns about this Renewal within the Catholic Church.

Looking at the Mulligan Stew I have before me, it dawned on me that the place where I need to research the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is in Scripture, its very self. If you would kindly read post 44 in this thread, you will find my start in Scripture. My idea is to study the Holy Spirit’s gifts from square one–primarily the two gifts which employ Tongues. Then compare that to 1967 and 2012.

For those interested in starting with Scripture. Post 44, this thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9877459&postcount=44

Briefly, when one compares the 2012 Catholic Charismatic Renewal with the Scripture sources regarding the Holy Spirit gifts, especially the two different gifts which use Tongues, the similarity is obvious.

Yet, it is important to remember that people of other faith traditions also have access to these same Scripture sources and thus are free to adapt their messages.
Consequently, one finds that other groups have adopted certain teachings of St. Paul long before the Catholic Charismatic Renewal within the Catholic Church. This time frame does not mean that somehow the Catholic Charismatic Renewal evolved from other faith traditions. As one studies Scripture, it is obvious that the roots of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal are firmly in the teachings of St. Paul.

What distinguishes the Catholic Charismatic Renewal within the Catholic Church is that it is faithful to all the theological teachings of the Catholic Church.

The following are informative links.
brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

nsc-chariscenter.org/AboutCCR/

nsc-chariscenter.org/

nsc-chariscenter.org/Search/