Speaking in tongues?

[grannymh]

Why would God need us to talk in tongues?

We are the ones who need to talk to God in prayer.

Tongues is one of the many ways we can pray to God. Obviously, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is our primary prayer. After that we choose our personal prayers.

The Holy Spirit gift of Tongues requires us to yield our speech mechanism to the Holy Spirit. We let go of our ordinary thoughts so that the Holy Spirit can form our prayer in the sounds He chooses. I use the word sounds because that is the vocal expression of the Holy Spirit praying our prayer. When we yield to the Holy Spirit, we find that our own tongue and lips move in some manner. Our trust is in the Holy Spirit. Yes, our prayer does have our intentions; yet, at the same time, we are praying in submission to the will of God. We are letting the Holy Spirit take over.

Some people think that Tongues is a badge of holiness and thus the sin of pride fills their prayer. We need to be humble when praying to God in any kind of prayer. It is also wrong to think that praying in Tongues is better than other prayers. Prayers are prayers. All prayers depend on our intentions, our reverence, and the love we give to our Creator.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal directs our attention to Our Lord, especially His Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist. The Renewal calls us to the Sacraments. The Renewal calls us to service within the parish or within the community – wherever our small talents lead us. As is apparent, the Renewal goals are the same as the other wonderful movements or groups within the Catholic Church. We are not clones of each other. We need to understand our own personality and then choose a group or not choose a group.

 

[fisherman_carl]

Why would God need us to talk in tongues?

God doesn’t need anything. Praying in tongues is for us.

“Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.” ( 1 Cor 14:4)

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Why would God need us to talk in tongues?

Praying in tongues (that is, the Spirit praying through us with inexpressible utterance–Rm 8:26) sounds like gibberish to some-- to me it sounds like something other than English, but not gibberish. When someone receives this gift, it is a witness for them and builds up their faith. One minute they didn’t have the gift, then they’re praying in tongues. It doesn’t matter that other people don’t believe in it-- it matters to the person it happens to. God doesn’t need this, He wants it. Praying in tongues is a prayer from the soul-- not the mind. But only those who are willing to humble themselves in front of Him will receive this gift. When I see a Catholic make a disparaging remark about praying in tongues, I know precisely why they don’t have that gift. (Firsherman Carl nailed it in his previous post).

Speaking in tongues is speaking another language. It builds up faith in a community. The person speaking in tongues talks in a language they don’t know and then people understand them. I’ve only known one person who has done it. He went to China and spoke Chinese (a language he had never learned). They all understood him.

 

[thistle]

In reality, I know many Catholics who speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues is no big deal (Or it shouldn’t be a big deal, but an accepted charism of the Holy Spirit). I grew up in a charismatic Catholic community. What I find discouraging is seeing some Catholics put it down when they don’t have the foggiest clue what they are talking about. This discourages people from seeking out that kind of spirituality. I don’t mean just people in this thread, but I have heard it from a number of places, even Catholic radio. If you’ve never spoken in tongues you shouldn’t be discouraging others from a potentially authentic form of spirituality in Christ. When you think that your form of spirituality is the only authentic way then you are only fooling yourself (spiritual pride).

youtube.com/watch?v=FQ38Tdf4V9k

How do you know they are speaking in tongues? Just because they claim to be??

 

[grannymh]

Praying in tongues (that is, the Spirit praying through us with inexpressible utterance–Rm 8:26) sounds like gibberish to some-- to me it sounds like something other than English, but not gibberish. When someone receives this gift, it is a witness for them and builds up their faith. One minute they didn’t have the gift, then they’re praying in tongues. It doesn’t matter that other people don’t believe in it-- it matters to the person it happens to. God doesn’t need this, He wants it. Praying in tongues is a prayer from the soul-- not the mind. But only those who are willing to humble themselves in front of Him will receive this gift. When I see a Catholic make a disparaging remark about praying in tongues, I know precisely why they don’t have that gift. (Firsherman Carl nailed it in his previous post).

Speaking in tongues is speaking another language. It builds up faith in a community. The person speaking in tongues talks in a language they don’t know and then people understand them. I’ve only known one person who has done it. He went to China and spoke Chinese (a language he had never learned). They all understood him.

There are two separate distinct gifts of the Holy Spirit which use Tongues. The first is the common gift of praying to God in Tongues. The second gift which uses Tongues is the gift of speaking God’s message to the community. Please notice the difference in direction between these two gifts. The first is our prayer directed to God–like an arrow going up. The second is God’s message to our assembled group–like an arrow going down.

The second gift of speaking in tongues is one of the nine classical gifts listed by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 12: 4-11. These gifts are often considered ministries because they build up the Church. It is this second gift of the Holy Spirit which requires someone with the gift of interpretation. This gift is also one of the nine classical gifts listed by St. Paul.

 

[fisherman_carl]

How do you know they are speaking in tongues? Just because they claim to be??

I don’t know. It’s a matter of Faith. Same reason you know the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ. Their personal character and the fruit of the Holy Spirit in their lives is also a witness.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Does anyone know if an experiment like the following has ever been done?

A recording of someone speaking in tongues is made. That recording is given to two or more individuals who say they have the gift of interpretation of tongues but have never met (to prevent collusion). Each individual writes what they believe is being spoken by the person with tongues. Each translation is compared to see how closely they match.

I think it would an interesting experitment and if successful could lead to some credibility as to its veracity.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Does anyone know if an experiment like the following has ever been done?

A recording of someone speaking in tongues is made. That recording is given to two or more individuals who say they have the gift of interpretation of tongues but have never met (to prevent collusion). Each individual writes what they believe is being spoken by the person with tongues. Each translation is compared to see how closely they match.

I think it would an interesting experitment and if successful could lead to some credibility as to its veracity.

That is a good idea. Someone should do a study on that.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I have a question for those who don’t believe the gift of tongues is real: Is the manifestation of the other gifts of the Holy Spirit real? I ask because the gift of tongues is the only one I ever see disparaged.

 

[thistle]

I have a question for those who don’t believe the gift of tongues is real: Is the manifestation of the other gifts of the Holy Spirit real? I ask because the gift of tongues is the only one I ever see disparaged.

St Paul made it perfectly clear that tongues is the least of the gifts yet those who claim to speak in tongues extol this gift as if it were number 1 and they tend to be condescending to anyone who does not believe.

I and others in my RCIA group attended a Life in the Spirit meeting more than 20 years ago as part of the program. The tongues speaking leaders of this meeting claimed two things which I discovered later after speaking to some priests were not just nonsense but outright lies.
They claimed that the ONLY way to communicate with the Holy Spirit is in tongues and said we could not do it by speaking any human language.
They also claimed that exorcisms can be performed ONLY in tongues and not Latin or any other language.
Well when I found out they were not speaking the truth it was pretty clear to me that their claim to speak in tongues was almost certainly nonsense too.

Have you ever heard of anybody who claims to speak in tongues submit themselves to the Church to discern if they actually have this gift. I think you will find the answer is no because they would be found out to be fake.

After such a bad experience I have remained extremely skeptical about anyone who claims to speak in tongues. They would have to prove it to me. I certainly would never take this on trust.

 

[grannymh]

St Paul made it perfectly clear that tongues is the least of the gifts yet those who claim to speak in tongues extol this gift as if it were number 1 and they tend to be condescending to anyone who does not believe.

I and others in my RCIA group attended a Life in the Spirit meeting more than 20 years ago as part of the program. The tongues speaking leaders of this meeting claimed two things which I discovered later after speaking to some priests were not just nonsense but outright lies.
They claimed that the ONLY way to communicate with the Holy Spirit is in tongues and said we could not do it by speaking any human language.
They also claimed that exorcisms can be performed ONLY in tongues and not Latin or any other language.
Well when I found out they were not speaking the truth it was pretty clear to me that their claim to speak in tongues was almost certainly nonsense too.

Have you ever heard of anybody who claims to speak in tongues submit themselves to the Church to discern if they actually have this gift. I think you will find the answer is no because they would be found out to be fake.

After such a bad experience I have remained extremely skeptical about anyone who claims to speak in tongues. They would have to prove it to me. I certainly would never take this on trust.

More than 20 years ago, in the U.S., there were Catholics who used a separate “Catholic” version of the “Life in the Spirit”. There was a serious concern (battle) that some of the influences of non-Catholic teachings were being adopted. The true Catholic teachings won.

This sentence
“They claimed that the ONLY way to communicate with the Holy Spirit is in tongues and said we could not do it by speaking any human language.”
is good example of some of the dangers which the early Catholic Leaders were combating.

The issue of “discernment” is part of the preparation for the classical gift of relating God’s message to the assembled group. Some past descriptions of general “charismatic meetings” immediately told me that the ministry of building up the church was not being practiced in a proper manner. And I doubted the validity.

In total contrast, St. Paul teaches about the common (available to all) gift of prayer Tongues. Please refer to post 20 for an initial explanation of the gift of private prayer to God which employs the use of Tongues.

Another way to distinquish the two separate Holy Spirit gifts which employ the use of Tongues is to recognize that the gift of Tongues listed in 1 Corinthians 12: 10 is a public gift. In addition to “interpretation” by someone who has the classical gift of interpreation, the “message” is subject to discernment by qualified individuals.

The gift of prayer Tongues referred to in 1 Corinthians, chapter 14, is a private method of prayer to God. We should not be eavesdroppers. God discerns the validity of that prayer. The Corinthian problems regarding prayer Tongues and pride and misinterpretation are still around in addition to the ones we see today.

Please note that I am not in the business of “converting” people to prayer Tongues. My goal is to present correct information so that individuals can choose wisely.

 

[carmenp1]

Taking the whole chapter 14 in context rather nuances what you are trying to say doesn’t it? Taking out isolated verses, without context, is meaningless:

My bold. It sounds to me that St. Paul rather speaking of preaching to people in their own language. It could be said that when Catholic missionaries go to a foreign land and learn the language, they are speaking in the tongue of the locals.

Same thing here. If we read the whole chapter, we get a different nuance (again my bold).

Most of what is “speaking in tongues” today seems to be gibberish. The verses you took out of context seem to suggest that the ability to understand what was being said by the persons hearing the one speaking in tongues, is essential and that in fact speaking in tongues is the ability to speak to the listener in his or her own language. Anything else is pure gibberish, probably fuelled by a state of ecstasy.

Its a good idea to read the whole passage to understand the context. There are enough references to the gift of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues in scripture that it would be presumptuous to reject what is being said in scripture and your own encounter with Christians who had the gift, to say it is probably fueled by a state of ecstasy. I think being in the presence of God would put anyone in a state of ecstacy.

(Edited)

 

[flower_lady]

Are you certain they were putting on a show? Being Pentecostal myself and as someone who speaks in tongues, it’s not always the easiest thing in the world to invite people to your church. We’re accused so often of being weird, cultic and unorthodox. If people were looking at you it may have been from self consciousness or sensitivity to the fact that you were a visitor and might have been put off by some of the things that happened.

There are many Catholics who speak in tongues.

It’s not an epiphany. The one who speaks in a tongue can control when he or she speaks. However, he or she does not control the sounds that come out of their mouths. It’s not something you “learn” to do. You must yield to the Holy Spirit and speak as He gives the utterance.

This woman was trying to get my attention. I can assure you it was an act. Now what I did not know and just watched a tape about it was that catholics speak in tongues but from the tape I wached it was not in the same way. I have felt the Holy Spirit around me so stronly that I cried. It has happened to me a few times but I did not suddenly start to speak in a language that nobody could understand. Those people didn’t have a clue as to what they were saying because they were all faking it, and nobody in there could interpret the others language. I guess God gave me the knowlege to know that.

 

[flower_lady]

We could say that anyone who speaks any language is “speaking in a tongue” because the word “tongue” is just King James English for “language.”

What we could not say is that a missionary who learns to speak a foreign language has the “gift of tongues” or the “gift of languages” because the spiritual gift of tongues or languages operates “as the Spirit gives utterance” (Acts 2). It is not something that can be learned by human effort.

I like this, especially when you say speaking in tongues is not something that can be learned by human effort. So true, and sorry to say, that’s what many people at these churches do. Not all.

 

[JimmyG88]

I have witnessed this some years ago at a prayer group. A member of the group (a teacher at the Catholic school) started speaking in an manner, which I imagine, he believed sounded like 1st century Aramaic. This was then ‘translated’ by a nun who was present. It was clearly rubbish and I instantly lost what little respect I had for either of them. Looking back I wonder what their motivation was. I don’t think it was arranged for one to utter and the other to translate, but crazy to imagine both of them knew it was fake but neither could say. Rather like the Emporer’s new clothes

 

[fhansen]

I have witnessed this some years ago at a prayer group. A member of the group (a teacher at the Catholic school) started speaking in an manner, which I imagine, he believed sounded like 1st century Aramaic. This was then ‘translated’ by a nun who was present. It was clearly rubbish and I instantly lost what little respect I had for either of them. Looking back I wonder what their motivation was. I don’t think it was arranged for one to utter and the other to translate, but crazy to imagine both of them knew it was fake but neither could say. Rather like the Emporer’s new clothes

That was my take on it while part of the Pentecostal Movement some years ago. And to be honest the Catholic Charismatic movement, which came along later, appeared to be nearly identical in nature, other than having some Catholic “trappings”.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I have felt the Holy Spirit around me so stronly that I cried. It has happened to me a few times but I did not suddenly start to speak in a language that nobody could understand.

I have been around others who spoke in tongues and they even prayed for me to “receive” the Holy Spirit over and above all the Sacraments. But no tongues for me. I have felt a deep emotion of joy bringing me tears. But the Vatican Letter on Eastern Meditation warns of Messalianism (I think) which is mistaking emotional highs for the holy Spirit. So I don’t know what to think.

I am currebtly reading the Acts of the Apostles. It is filled with the Holy Spirit working all sorts of wonders through the apostles. Our diocese just celebrated Confimation for some. The contrast between that and the decent of the Siprit as in Acts is obvious.

I guess I hunger for that Pentecostal experience of God and wonder why it is so lacking in the Catholc Church. There are a few Catholic Charismatics but the ones I have known seemed emotionaly unstable and kind of kookie.

I would like to hear more of the awesome experience of the action of the Holy Spirit from others here.

 

[OraLabora]

Ignorance, fear and not having it yourself is why you are against it.

Speaking of being presumptious…

You have no idea of my interior state, my own mystical experiences, and my spiritual life.

I do however have a spiritual director to help me discern genuine experiences of Grace from personal emotions.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I have been around others who spoke in tongues and they even prayed for me to “receive” the Holy Spirit over and above all the Sacraments. But no tongues for me. I have felt a deep emotion of joy bringing me tears. But the Vatican Letter on Eastern Meditation warns of Messalianism (I think) which is mistaking emotional highs for the holy Spirit. So I don’t know what to think.

I am currebtly reading the Acts of the Apostles. It is filled with the Holy Spirit working all sorts of wonders through the apostles. Our diocese just celebrated Confimation for some. The contrast between that and the decent of the Siprit as in Acts is obvious.

I guess I hunger for that Pentecostal experience of God and wonder why it is so lacking in the Catholc Church. There are a few Catholic Charismatics but the ones I have known seemed emotionaly unstable and kind of kookie.

I would like to hear more of the awesome experience of the action of the Holy Spirit from others here.

I feel the holy spirit the strongest when I am at Adoration or when I am alone doing my spiritual reading. I feel a presence of love and warmth and I feel perfectly comfortable praying in my native tongue.

 

[Cone]

There’s no point to speaking in tongues if what one is saying isn’t making any sense.