Speaking in tongues?

[ynotzap]

How would one know if someone gave a prophesy or word of knowledge that says nothing contrary to the faith but isn’t from the Holy Spirit without the charismatic gift of the spirit? This would apply to tongues, as well.

Discernment of Spirits can be acquired or given charismatically (and transient) We must remember that our Faith is the Gift of the Spirit through Jesus Christ. It is a template that we use to test the Spirits. If we practice our Faith sincerely, we grow spiritually, and as we grow by the practice of virtue we become spiritually sensitive to the movements of the Holy Spirit in our own personal lives, and in the lives of others. eg. If there is a divisive factor among Charismatics when it comes to believing Church teaching, we know that the devil is active causing disunity because the Holy Spirit is the cause of unity, and charity. When there is anything present that detracts away from Jesus Christ or the Ten Commandments, or any article of Faith given for our belief, you can be assured the devil is active. If it is consistent with Holy Scripture that is a good sign. You are dealing with “inspiration” if it magnifies Jesus Christ, then it is good, if it doesn’t and magnifies man into thinking he is elite, and special, then it is divisive, and not of a good Spirit
As stated by others, there is usually a confirmation by others, and even from the teachings of the Church that validate it as legitimate.

 

[OraLabora]

This article from the Catholic Encyclopedia may be of benefit to the discussion:

Glossolalia

This paragraph in particular stood out for me:

Corinthian Abuses (I Corinthians 14 passim).—Medieval and modern writers wrongly take it for granted that the charism existed permanently at Corinth — as it did nowhere else—and that St. Paul, in commending the gift to the Corinthians, therewith gave his guaranty that the characteristics of Corinthian glossolaly were those of the gift itself. Traditional writers in overlooking this point place St. Luke at variance with St. Paul, and attribute to the charism properties so contrary as to make it inexplicable and prohibitively mysterious. There is enough in St. Paul to show us that the Corinthian peculiarities were ignoble accretions and abuses. They made of “tongues” a source of schism in the Church and of scandal without (14:23). The charism had deteriorated into a mixture of meaningless inarticulate gabble (9, 10) with an element of uncertain sounds (7, 8), which sometimes might be construed as little short of blasphemous (12:3). The Divine praises were recognized now and then, but the general effect was one of confusion and disedification for the very unbelievers for whom the normal gift was intended (14:22, 23, 26). The Corinthians, misled not by insincerity but by simplicity and ignorance (20), were actuated by an undisciplined religious spirit (pneuma), or rather by frenzied emotions and not by the understanding (nous) of the Spirit of God (15). What today purports to be the “gift of tongues” at certain Protestant revivals is a fair reproduction of Corinthian glossolaly, and shows the need there was in the primitive Church of the Apostle’s counsel to do all things “decently, and according to order” (40).

Faithful adherence to the text of Sacred Scripture makes it obligatory to reject those opinions which turn the charism of tongues into little more than infantile babbling (Eichhorn, Schmidt, Neander), incoherent exclamations (Meyer), pythonic utterances (Wiseler), or prophetic demonstrations of the archaic kind (see 1 Samuel 19:20, 24). The unalloyed charism was as much an exercise of the intelligence as of the emotions. Languages or dialects, now kainais (Mark 16:17) for their present purpose, and now spontaneously borrowed by the conservative Hebrew from Gentile foreigners (eteroglossois, cheilesin eteron, 1 Corinthians 14:21), were used as never before. But they were understood even by those who used them. Most Latin commentators have believed the contrary, but the ancient Greeks, St. Cyril of Alexandria, Theodoret, and others who were nearer the scene, agree to it and the testimony of the texts as above studied seems to bear them out.

(my bold).

Of any glossolalia that is incoherent, I remain firmly a skeptic that it is a “gift of the Holy Spirit”.

Note that in so saying, I am not doubting the sincerity of the faith of those practicing it, but I believe they are confusing a gift of the Holy Spirit with their own understandably heightened emotions in the type of situation that gives rise to it.

 

[DebChris]

For authenticity then it should be recorded and submitted to various universities and pontifical institutes for some opinion on if it is indeed a language and perhaps which language or which language family and compare the translations

Not all our prayers will be recorded. They are often private as the example given by Granny. They are also spontaneous.
When I received my gift I did notify my pastor as it effected my personal situation. I actually sing and that is how people know the authenticity of my charism, especially those who have heard my natural voice.

During the Great Revivals of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, tongues began to be expressed by members of some of the mainline Protestant churches. These churches had difficulty accepting the charism of their members which led to the formation of the Assembly of God and other Pentecostal churches. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, has welcomed the Charismatic Renewal and recognized the charisms as gifts of the Holy Spirit.

In terms of recorded prayer gatherings, there is enough evidence that if anybody did want to do a language analysis they could do so.

 

[flower_lady]

There are two different Holy Spirit gifts which use Tongues.

Praying in Tongues personally to God is known as the common gift which is available to all.

To anwer your question “How do I know if a person is speaking in tongues and not just faking it” here is an actual situation.

A close friend and I were on a Bob and Penny Lord Pilgrimage many years ago. We were in Rome when she asked me about Tongues. She wanted to listen to me when I “spoke in Tongues.” Since I use Tongues to pray to God, I thought it would be a good idea to do that in St. Peter’s Basilica. There we found a place where we could kneel in prayer. I suggested that we both pray like we normally do in English. I said that after a few minutes, I would switch to praying in Tongues. There we were, both of us praying in soft voices to God.

How could my friend know that I was praying in tongues and not just faking it in order to impress her? All my friend could recognize was that I was using non-English sounds. My friend could not determine if I were truly praying to God. She chose not to discuss that issue because, as she said, all she wanted to do was to hear it.

All I can do is to hear someone praying in either the vernacular or in Tongues. Because I can hear Tongues does not mean that I have the ability to distinquish between real prayers and fake prayers. Because that judgment belongs to God, no human judgment is needed.

Because it is often difficult to separate prayer Tongues from St. Paul’s list of Holy Spirit gifts
in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12, I would appreciate knowing your reaction to the above explanation of prayer Tongues before I address the issue of Tongues when that does require an interpretator.

You state that since you use tongues to pray to God, as if it is something that you can do anytime you decide to. So do you say well today when I pray I will pray in tongues and the next day you say, today I don’t think I will pray in tongues? I thought praying in tongues was something that happens spontaneously; when the Holy Spirit touches you. I don’t doubt that there are people who have truly spoken in tongues, but I don’t believe that it is something that the majority of the people in these churches understand the real meaning of what speaking in tongues is. I believe in a lot of cases it is mass hysteria and that neither they or anybody in the church can interpret any of it. It is something they think that they should do to convince people that they are Holy. It’s planned. However, maybe I was wrong in saying that they are fake,(well, some of them)because many of these people are sincere in what they believe they are doing.

 

[mommy_k]

My quote button is not here today-

But as one reads Corithians1,-- 14:27, it states that no more then 2-3 people speaking in tongues should gather together, and there should also be an interpretor.

It’s right there.

Earlier in the chapter, it states that if one is praying in tongues that no-one can understand, they are possibly edifying themselves.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

My quote button is not here today-

But as one reads Corithians1,-- 14:27, it states that no more then 2-3 people speaking in tongues should gather together, and there should also be an interpretor.

It’s right there.

Earlier in the chapter, it states that if one is praying in tongues that no-one can understand, they are possibly edifying themselves.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

 

[mommy_k]

No, Bruised Reed, just stating a fact. My quote button is not working and wanted to add to my first post, which stated if an interpretatorr was present it may help the op. I have yet to find one with the gift of interpretaion of tongues, yet have heard many pray this way.

 

[grannymh]

You state that since you use tongues to pray to God, as if it is something that you can do anytime you decide to. So do you say well today when I pray I will pray in tongues and the next day you say, today I don’t think I will pray in tongues? I thought praying in tongues was something that happens spontaneously; when the Holy Spirit touches you.

I cannot speak for other charismatic groups.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal teaches that praying to God in Tongues is always under the control of the individual. I can both start and stop praying. Starting to pray in Tongues means that I freely choose to yield my speech mechanism to the Holy Spirit. Ending the prayer is up to me. I can freely choose to stop praying in Tongues. By the way, I can also pray in Tongues silently.

 

[flower_lady]

I cannot speak for other charismatic groups.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal teaches that praying to God in Tongues is always under the control of the individual. I can both start and stop praying. Starting to pray in Tongues means that I freely choose to yield my speech mechanism to the Holy Spirit. Ending the prayer is up to me. I can freely choose to stop praying in Tongues. By the way, I can also pray in Tongues silently.

Oh, I see. I didn’t think it worked that way.

 

[flower_lady]

PJM

Re: Speaking in tongues?

---

flower lady:

REPLY

Hi Brenda, I’m grateful for the questions!

Let’s start by sharing a web site you may wish to check out for more information.

bustedhalo.com/questionbox/speaking-in-tongues

I’ve experienced this Gift of the Holy Spirit some years ago at a Catholic Charismatic Conference. But then there folks who could and did translate for us what is being said. In fact we have a few Catholic friends who are blessed with this gift, all though it is not widely spread in Catholicism. We have the Seven Sacraments validly and licitly; so tongues is just an added bonus.

But I have also seen this “gift” forged by Satan:

kneillfoster.com/articles/glossolalia/TonguesTested.html

And the FACT that the LDS have been given this gift and they ARE NOT eve Christians ought to make us cautious.

lds.org/scriptures/gs/tongues-gift-of

This gift is widely seen in the Pentecostal communion; they, along with some Baptist, are the most militant anti-Catholic groups around. Both can be very uncharitable in their positions and teachings, and bring much concern about just how truly “filled with the HS” they actually are. Showing off to is an indicator of a untrue source of this gift.

The entire bible message can be summed up like this:

John.13: 35 ”By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." Failing this teaching is grievously failing Christ’s presence.

1Cor.14:5 “Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. 6 “Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?” “I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all;23 If, therefore, the whole church assembles and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 39 ”So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues”

1Cor.14: 1-6 “Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?”

1 Cor. 12: 4-12 & 28-30 “Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.” & And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?”

We see here that Paul rates tongues as a lesser gift than many others.

God Bless

---

Irish2: PJM

working4christtwo.wordpress.com

A.B. Fulton Sheen: “The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it.”

 

[mikekle]

The ONLY place I have seen people speaking/ praying in tongues was in a Pentecostal church, I was not scared of it though, as I had an idea what it was, in fact, I thought it more strange that I have never once seen this happen at the catholic church I had attended for decades…this made me wonder quite a bit actually.

I can honestly say, if this suddenly happened in my CC today, most of the congregation would probably be shocked or wonder what was going on, that is kind of sad imo, even people that hold up their hands get strange looks at my parish today, plus, this only recently starting happening, I never saw anyone do this before a year or so ago, and even today, its usually only 1 or 2 people that do this, most people just sit, stand, kneel, and patiently ‘go thru the motions’ every sunday.

 

[flower_lady]

PJM

Re: Speaking in tongues?

---

flower lady:

REPLY

Hi Brenda, I’m grateful for the questions!

Let’s start by sharing a web site you may wish to check out for more information.

bustedhalo.com/questionbox/speaking-in-tongues

I’ve experienced this Gift of the Holy Spirit some years ago at a Catholic Charismatic Conference. But then there folks who could and did translate for us what is being said. In fact we have a few Catholic friends who are blessed with this gift, all though it is not widely spread in Catholicism. We have the Seven Sacraments validly and licitly; so tongues is just an added bonus.

But I have also seen this “gift” forged by Satan:

kneillfoster.com/articles/glossolalia/TonguesTested.html

And the FACT that the LDS have been given this gift and they ARE NOT eve Christians ought to make us cautious.

lds.org/scriptures/gs/tongues-gift-of

This gift is widely seen in the Pentecostal communion; they, along with some Baptist, are the most militant anti-Catholic groups around. Both can be very uncharitable in their positions and teachings, and bring much concern about just how truly “filled with the HS” they actually are. Showing off to is an indicator of a untrue source of this gift.

The entire bible message can be summed up like this:

John.13: 35 ”By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." Failing this teaching is grievously failing Christ’s presence.

1Cor.14:5 “Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. 6 “Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?” “I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all;23 If, therefore, the whole church assembles and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 39 ”So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues”

1Cor.14: 1-6 “Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?”

1 Cor. 12: 4-12 & 28-30 “Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.” & And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?”

We see here that Paul rates tongues as a lesser gift than many others.

God Bless

---

Irish2: PJM

working4christtwo.wordpress.com

A.B. Fulton Sheen: “The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it.”

If you would take the time to read the reply of PJM’s, where it says; but I have also seen this"gift" forged by Satan (the site right beneath that statement) you will be amazed at what it say’s. It’s really interesting.

 

[carmenp1]

You didn’t answer the question I asked but the question you wanted to answer.

Does anyone else want to answer the question? Are the other gifts of the Holy Spirit that manifest authentic or are they fake as well?

The gift of the Holy Spirit is not for exorcism. That is non scriptural for a start. If you keep to scripture, you can be more confident that you are on the right track. You can then see if what someone is telling you, is true or not.
I have posted this before, but in case you haven’t seen these scriptures, I have reposted to help you find the scriptures related to tongues.

All the answers you need to know about tongues should be confirmed by the Bible.

1. According to Scripture, it is God’s will for everyone to speak in tongues since Paul says; “Now I want you all to speak in tongues… [1 Corinthians 14:5]
2. Speaking in tongues strengthens and edifies the believer. “He who speaks with a tongue edifies himself” [1 Corinthians 14:4] **
3. He who speaks in tongues is praying in the Spirit. “What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit and I will also pray with the understanding” [1 Corinthians 14:15]
4. Speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is a divinely inspired means of praying effectively for others. “Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groaning which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose” [Romans 8:26-28]
5. Speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is the normal scriptural means of entering into the baptism in the Holy Spirit. “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” [Acts 2:4]

“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the Word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.” [Acts 10: 44-46]

1. Obviously, Peter accepted the validity of the baptism in the Holy Spirit at Cornelius’ house, not because the tongues were recognisable as they had been at Pentecost, but simply on the basis of the tongues themselves. **“And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptised with water, but you shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit’. If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I would withstand God?” [Acts 11:15-17]
   **
   “But you beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life” [Jude 20]

Tongues are for a sign. 1Corinthians 14:22 “Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers”

It is also for edification 1 Corinthians 14:4
Tongues help us to pray to God 1 Corinthians 14:14 “For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding”

Tongues a Sign to Unbelievers
**I Corinthians 14:20 “Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. In the law it is written:

   “With men of other tongues and other lips
      I will speak to this people,
     And yet, for all that,
     They will not hear
     Me.”
    Says the Lord.

Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. “Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.”**

God has defined the proper use of this gift of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. It is not by the whole church speaking in tongues at once.

I found that using this gift when I was in prayer, really helped me to pray, especially when I was going through very difficult problems in my life.

I did as it says in scripture. I prayed first in my own understanding, and then in tongues. Then back into my own understanding and then in tongues. What I discovered as I prayed this way, that the Holy Spirit would lay specific needs He wanted Me to pray for upon my heart. At the time I didn’t know why, naturally, but it did happen that in time, things would develop and then I knew why God had wanted me to pray for a certain person etc. Obedience in prayer was also the lesson I learnt. The Holy Spirit is the Helper.

Praying for the Gift of the Holy Spirit
I prayed to God something like this:

Heavenly Father, I pray that You would give me the gift of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. In the name of your Son, Jesus Christ. Amen.

You know, no one has to speak in tongues. You can have the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues.
Carmen**

 

[carmenp1]

While there are definite differences between our religions, this understanding of praying in Tongues is common to both of us. It is also common that the Holy Spirit gift of prayer Tongues usually starts with a few sounds and then expands. I thank the Holy Spirit Who has given you this special gift of prayer.

Thank you Grannymh, but I am not special at all. This gift God gives to anyone who asks. If you have asked God for the Holy Spirit He will give it to you. I remember, after I had asked God, I didn’t think God gave it to me. It was a little while after that I spoke a few words then more came. I was unsure if this was from God. I read scripture about it, and I think that it was after I trusted it was from God, that I was able to use the gift.

I have only shared a little of my testamony, when I was going through those terrible years of struggling to ward off my husband from taking my children and other things he tried to do, it was this gift that really helped me. I could pray for hours. I needed comfort, reasurrance and God’s help. He did do all those things.

I prayed in my own understanding and then in the Holy Spirit. What I found was happening, was that as I did this, God would lay things on my heart that I then prayed for.

But, even if you don’t speak in tongues, if you asked God for it, I think, He would have given to you I am not special. God says we are all the same.

 

[ynotzap]

As I stated in the past on this forum, the gifts of Tongues is praying with your heart and desire. You bypass the mind and go straight to the heart (and will ) when praying and praising. It can be used anytime. Sometimes our minds tire of formality, and we utter with groanings for a freedom of expression we can not get with our minds, a place in prayer were we can give free expression to our desires to express our love for God, a place where speech fails to meet this desire. I first desired this gift to obtain knowledge of the Charism in my lay apostolic work so that I could reach an understanding with those who used this gift. I did not know how to expose myself to this gift. After failing, I tried once again, looking at a picture of Jesus Christ I somehow just let myself go, like making a fool of myself (although I was convinced it was not foolish). The syllables rolled out of my mouth and they became smoother united as a language. I received it (in faith). I still didn’t use it much, although I attended a Pentecostal church were a catholic was knocking the Church, then I used it in front of the congregation ( I did this because I was practicing ecumenism to observe what God was doing in other faiths. The result of this incident caused the Pastor of the Pentecostal church to dismiss the catholic.

Again even though I experienced spontaneous freedom of expression in prayer, I still didn’t put too much effort in it’s use as I have many years of praying in English, and still do. But in prayer again, I was complaining to God about spiritual aridity experience in prayer. I was sacristan at our Church and I attended mass frequently. One day I looked at the Chalice before the priest consumed the Precious Blood and I saw a halo of light coming from within the Chalice, just for an instant, but in that instant things were so vivid. I was aware of many things. Then without my control I found myself praising Jesus in Tongues, it was for me a confirmation that this was very acceptable to God. Formally I did use the gift any time I wanted to, but it was an actual “take over” by the Holy Spirit to resolve my spiritual problem. The light I saw was a confirmation of something I always believed that Jesus was truly present. I don’t expect every one who reads this to believe me, but how can I deny something I experienced no matter what others think?

 

[carmenp1]

The ONLY place I have seen people speaking/ praying in tongues was in a Pentecostal church, I was not scared of it though, as I had an idea what it was, in fact, I thought it more strange that I have never once seen this happen at the catholic church I had attended for decades…this made me wonder quite a bit actually.

I can honestly say, if this suddenly happened in my CC today, most of the congregation would probably be shocked or wonder what was going on, that is kind of sad imo, even people that hold up their hands get strange looks at my parish today, plus, this only recently starting happening, I never saw anyone do this before a year or so ago, and even today, its usually only 1 or 2 people that do this, most people just sit, stand, kneel, and patiently ‘go thru the motions’ every sunday.

It’s so good to hear that people in your church are starting to lift up their hands. Even at the Baptist church I go to, not everyone does. I think it is harder for men than women. It is scriptural (my litmus test for everything which is in doubt) 1Timothy 2:8 "I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting"

When I lift up my hands, I am worshipping God. It is hard to humble yourself like this. And hard if not many people do. But I find it is so rewarding. And sometimes, I just have to when the worship songs are all about God. It is hard to explain the difference when I lift up my hands in the song service and when I don’t.

God inhabits the praises of His people…that is probably what I am experiencing.

 

[carmenp1]

i

Formally I did use the gift any time I wanted to, but it was an actual “take over” by the Holy Spirit to resolve my spiritual problem. The light I saw was a confirmation of something I always believed that Jesus was truly present. I don’t expect every one who reads this to believe me, but how can I deny something I experienced no matter what others think?

I kind of jumped when I read **

an actual “take over” by the Holy Spirit

**
Scripture doesn’t mention this. God would never override our free will. I have posted some scripture related to speaking in tongues. Was it prophesying. But then there would need to have been someone able to interpret. In 24 years, I haven’t really seen this and could say, it was from God and not manipulated by the pastor for his own agenda. (church turned into a cult by new headship…whole other story)

1. According to Scripture, it is God’s will for everyone to speak in tongues since Paul says; “Now I want you all to speak in tongues… [1 Corinthians 14:5]
2. Speaking in tongues strengthens and edifies the believer. ***“He who speaks with a tongue edifies himself” [1 Corinthians 14:4] ***
3. He who speaks in tongues is praying in the Spirit. “What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit and I will also pray with the understanding” [1 Corinthians 14:15]
4. Speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is a divinely inspired means of praying effectively for others. “Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groaning which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose” [Romans 8:26-28]
5. Speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is the normal scriptural means of entering into the baptism in the Holy Spirit. “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” [Acts 2:4]

“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the Word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.” [Acts 10: 44-46]

1. Obviously, Peter accepted the validity of the baptism in the Holy Spirit at Cornelius’ house, not because the tongues were recognisable as they had been at Pentecost, but simply on the basis of the tongues themselves. “And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptised with water, but you shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit’. If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I would withstand God?” [Acts 11:15-17]

“But you beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life” [Jude 20]

Tongues are for a sign. 1Corinthians 14:22 “Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers”

**It is also for edification **1 Corinthians 14:4
Tongues help us to pray to God 1 Corinthians 14:14 “For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding”

Tongues a Sign to Unbelievers
***I Corinthians 14:20 “Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. In the law it is written:

   “With men of other tongues and other lips
      I will speak to this people,
     And yet, for all that,
     They will not hear
     Me.”
    Says the Lord.

Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. “Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.”

---

 

[thistle]

There are two different Holy Spirit gifts which use Tongues.

Praying in Tongues personally to God is known as the common gift which is available to all.

To anwer your question “How do I know if a person is speaking in tongues and not just faking it” here is an actual situation.

A close friend and I were on a Bob and Penny Lord Pilgrimage many years ago. We were in Rome when she asked me about Tongues. She wanted to listen to me when I “spoke in Tongues.” Since I use Tongues to pray to God, I thought it would be a good idea to do that in St. Peter’s Basilica. There we found a place where we could kneel in prayer. I suggested that we both pray like we normally do in English. I said that after a few minutes, I would switch to praying in Tongues. There we were, both of us praying in soft voices to God.

How could my friend know that I was praying in tongues and not just faking it in order to impress her? All my friend could recognize was that I was using non-English sounds. My friend could not determine if I were truly praying to God. She chose not to discuss that issue because, as she said, all she wanted to do was to hear it.

All I can do is to hear someone praying in either the vernacular or in Tongues. Because I can hear Tongues does not mean that I have the ability to distinquish between real prayers and fake prayers. Because that judgment belongs to God, no human judgment is needed.

Because it is often difficult to separate prayer Tongues from St. Paul’s list of Holy Spirit gifts
in 1 Corinthians, chapter 12, I would appreciate knowing your reaction to the above explanation of prayer Tongues before I address the issue of Tongues when that does require an interpretator.

So the reality is that a person who claims to speak in tongues cannot prove what they are doing is genuine and anyone listening just has to take it on trust??

Why don’t people who claim to speak in tongues submit themselves to the Church to discern if the gift is real or not?

 

[PJM]

=thistle;12792798]So the reality is that a person who claims to speak in tongues cannot prove what they are doing is genuine and anyone listening just has to take it on trust??

Why don’t people who claim to speak in tongues submit themselves to the Church to discern if the gift is real or not?

Hi Brenda, [The OP] I’m grateful for the questions!

Let’s start by sharing a web site you may wish to check out for more information.
bustedhalo.com/questionbox/speaking-in-tongues

I’ve experienced this Gift of the Holy Spirit some years ago at a Catholic Charismatic Conference. But then there folks who could and did translate for us what is being said. In fact we have a few Catholic friends who are blessed with this gift, all though it is not widely spread in Catholicism. We have the Seven Sacraments validly and licitly; so tongues is just an added bonus.

But I have also seen this “gift” forged by Satan:

kneillfoster.com/articles/glossolalia/TonguesTested.html

And the FACT that the LDS have been given this gift and they ARE NOT eve Christians ought to make us cautious.

lds.org/scriptures/gs/tongues-gift-of

This gift is widely seen in the Pentecostal communion; they, along with some Baptist, are the most militant anti-Catholic groups around. Both can be very uncharitable in their positions and teachings, and bring much concern about just how truly “filled with the HS” they actually are. Showing off to is an indicator of a untrue source of this gift.

The entire bible message can be summed up like this: John.13: 35 ”By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." Failing this teaching is grievously failing Christ’s presence.

1Cor.14:5 “Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. 6 “Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?” 1 “I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all;23 If, therefore, the whole church assembles and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 39 ”So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues”

1Cor.14: 1-6 “Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?”

1 Cor. 12: 4-12 & 28-30 “Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.” & And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?” We see here that Paul rates tongues as a lesser gift than many others.

God Bless

Patrick

 

[carmenp1]

You state that since you use tongues to pray to God, as if it is something that you can do anytime you decide to. So do you say well today when I pray I will pray in tongues and the next day you say, today I don’t think I will pray in tongues? I thought praying in tongues was something that happens spontaneously; when the Holy Spirit touches you. I don’t doubt that there are people who have truly spoken in tongues, I believe in a lot of cases it is mass hysteria and that neither they or anybody in the church can interpret any of it.

What Grannymh described, is how it works. It isn’t supposed to be used by the whole church at once. That is going against scripture. There is a proper way to use this gift. The Pastor of one church I attended would get the whole church to start praising God in tongues. I always thought, what about what God says about not doing that because people would think we had gone mad.

I think scripture gives the best analysis of what it is and why God chose to give it to us. His Words are better than mine, so here are some.

1. According to Scripture, it is God’s will for everyone to speak in tongues since Paul says; “Now I want you all to speak in tongues… [1 Corinthians 14:5]
2. Speaking in tongues strengthens and edifies the believer. *“He who speaks with a tongue edifies himself” [1 Corinthians 14:4] *
3. He who speaks in tongues is praying in the Spirit. “What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit and I will also pray with the understanding” [1 Corinthians 14:15]
4. Speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is a divinely inspired means of praying effectively for others. “Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groaning which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose” [Romans 8:26-28]
5. Speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is the normal scriptural means of entering into the baptism in the Holy Spirit. *“And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” [Acts 2:4]

“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the Word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.” [Acts 10: 44-46]

1. Peter accepted the validity of the baptism in the Holy Spirit at Cornelius’ house, not because the tongues were recognisable as they had been at Pentecost, but simply on the basis of the tongues themselves. * “And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptised with water, but you shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit’. If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I would withstand God?” [Acts 11:15-17]*

Tongues are for a sign. 1Corinthians 14:22 “Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers”

It is also for edification 1 Corinthians 14:4
Tongues help us to pray to God 1 Corinthians 14:14 “For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding”

Tongues a Sign to Unbelievers
I Corinthians 14:20 “Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. In the law it is written:

   “With men of other tongues and other lips
      I will speak to this people,
     And yet, for all that,
     They will not hear
     Me.”
    Says the Lord.

Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. “Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.”

God has defined the proper use of this gift of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. **It is not by the whole church speaking in tongues at once.
**

I found that using this gift when I was in prayer, really helped me to pray, especially when I was going through very difficult problems in my life.

I did as it says in scripture. I prayed first in my own understanding, and then in tongues. Then back into my own understanding and then in tongues.

I discovered as I prayed this way, that the Holy Spirit would lay specific needs He wanted Me to pray for upon my heart.

Scripture defines the boundaries God has placed upon how we use it. Don’t be put off seeing a whole church speak in tongues. They are misusing the gift but the gift is still from God. It’s up to each church, each individual to use it the way God has instructed us.

Carmen