Speaking in tounges?

[fred_conty]

But couldn’t that have been accomplished had the Apostles had just spoken in Greek or Aramaic and the audience all had access to a personal translator?

By the way, there were other gifts presented by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Seems like we get too awed by this one thing.

HI,
What you said about being really awed is true. That is why Peter spoke in tongues on
Pentecost, that is, to wow them so they would believe. In other words, it was miraculous
for everyone to hear in his own tongue, and that was very impressive to the crowd. That
was the point of the tongues, to help people come to the true faith. I know I would be
impressed.

I believe it was ST. Theresa who said she felt bad that she could not speak in tongues.
But then she read St. Paul who said the greatest gift from the Spirit was love. Then she
realized that that was her calling, the Spirit’s greatest gift, to love.

I believe that if the need ever came that I should speak in tongues, then it would happen.
There have been others who have started their trip to the faith because of tongues.

 

[fred_conty]

Examining the results of claimed miracles is a vaild approach. A Doctor in Search of a Miracle ( Nolan ) spent years following up claims of divine healing only to find that such were not healings at all.

It was one James Randi who researched the “Faith Healers” to find out that many people who were claimed to be healed of cancer, ceased their medical treatments and died as the result.

If those healings were in fact genuine, would not an honest doctor wanting to document a miracle, or a skeptic wanting to disprove miracles find some that were genuine?

William Nolen M.D in his 1974 book “Healing: A Doctor in Search of a Miracle”, started out as a true believer in miracles today only to be disappointed by the many failures of the faith healers.

Hi,
Look into the miracles at Lourds France. They have been authenticated by doctors and
scientists from all over the world, including professionals of various faiths and non faiths.

 

[CEM5]

I respectfully disagree. “But in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also; than ten thousand words in a tongue” (1 Cor. 14:19). I think the phrase in bold is important. It is in the church, a gathering of Christians who come together for the purpose worshiping God and instruction, that Paul would rather speak with the understanding. This was a private meeting between 3 people (presumably none of them were “outsiders”) specifically for the purpose of prayer. The deacon may have for whatever reason felt that intercession in the spirit was what was needed at the time.

Not to mention the fact that because this deacon was praying to God, he was not speaking to anyone else and needed not to interpret anything since the prayer is addressed to God. People are of course free to disagree.

Hi Itwin,

I respect your opinion, however, the Scripture is very clear about when to speak to tongues, and I had highlighted those important points. Please re-read them. We Christians comprise the Church, and it is not just a building. Back then there were no buildings called “Churches” – just meeting places usually hidden away in someone’s house or in the catacombs. The Church was the congregation of Christians. Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in them midst of them…so Jesus declared.

Therefore, I reiterated and stick to my posts.

Blessings,

CEM

 

[CEM5]

We can proof text all day. Those scriptures aren’t as convincing as you think they are. See, I can pull out my own scripture, its easy:

“For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.” 1 Corinthians 14:2.QUOTE]

Hi Itwin,

It is wrong to take one verse out of context as you just did. When read in context, this does not support your point.

St Paul told us clearly to be quiet when speaking in tongues. It is the language of angels, and meant for God and the person alone. The ONLY time someone is permitted to speak aloud, is only when someone can interpret what was being said. St Paul clearly tells us, that if not, keep silent for no one will undertand what was just said.

 

[CEM5]

Ok we get it. You don’t believe glossolalia is the speaking in tongues identified in the Bible. Not all tongues are human languages. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:1

“If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels”

He says in 1 Corinthians 14:2

“For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.”

In verses 4 and 5 he says

“The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy.”

Jude 1:20 says “But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit”

So when we pray in a tongue, we are building up ourselves in our most holy faith. If you don’t want to speak in tongues, no one is making you. But there are those who have found it to be effective in building up ourselves in our faith. There is nothing wrong with that.

Hi again,

True - when a person speaks in a tongue they are not building up the Church; only themselves. That is why prophesy (speaking and spreading the word of God) is a greater gift.

 

[ltwin]

Hi Itwin,

It is wrong to take one verse out of context as you just did. When read in context, this does not support your point.

I was responding to the following poster’s comment:

As for the bablings that I see at pentecostal charismatic churches, scripture condems us immatiating the pagans in this. The pagan temples of that time had those that babbled which would be just like what is seen in charismatic pentecostal meetings. Basically, that which was occuring in the church was superior to that which occurred in the pagan temples.

Matthew 6:7
And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Matthew 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Isaiah 8:19
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

meta-religion.com/Linguistics/Glossolalia/contemporary_linguistic_study.htm

without independent linquistic verification, you are just making claims.

Those verses were taken out of contexts and were used as proof texts. I was showing him that pulling a text out of the Bible is useless. Nearly every Bible verse can be used to support all most anything one wants to if it is pulled out of context.

St Paul told us clearly to be quiet when speaking in tongues. It is the language of angels, and meant for God and the person alone. The ONLY time someone is permitted to speak aloud, is only when someone can interpret what was being said. St Paul clearly tells us, that if not, keep silent for no one will undertand what was just said.

I respect your position, but I believe that in the context of prayer, whether you are alone or with others, as long as you are not “in the church” (the ecclesia, literally the “assembly” ) and it is understood you are assembled together for prayer, then prayer in the Spirit is fine. Where does it say the language is meant for God and the angels alone? I know that it says that only God understands it, and it shouldn’t be spoken in the assembly unless it can be interpreted. If it cannot be interpreted then the speaker must speak to God and him/herself.

I do respect your opinion, and, while I do not agree with it, I appreciate the charitable manner in which you have engaged in dialogue (unlike some posters).

 

[Michael_Francis]

Moved to Apologetics.

 

[Big_Dummy]

frankly, the translation of 1 Corinthians 13:1 quoted is a poor or out dated understanding of the greek text.

Paul is saying “if it were possible to” , not that people do in fact speak in languages of angels. When Paul was caught up to heaven 2 Cor 12, he heard things, heavenly language that could not be repeated on earth.

 

[ltwin]

frankly, the translation of 1 Corinthians 13:1 quoted is a poor or out dated understanding of the greek text.

Paul is saying “if it were possible to” , not that people do in fact speak in languages of angels. When Paul was caught up to heaven 2 Cor 12, he heard things, heavenly language that could not be repeated on earth.

How do you explain away 1 Corinthians 14:2 “For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.”

If he were speaking a human language, then he would not be “utter[ing] mysteries in the Spirit”. He might be uttering mysteries to those who do not know the language, but someone out there would have known the language. It wouldn’t have been mysterious at all.

Also, on the Day of Pentecost, the disciples speaking human languages were NOT speaking to God. They were clearly speaking to men, the human languages of the human men they were speaking to. In Corinth, Paul clearly states, the tongue speakers were speaking “not to men but to God.”

This verse makes no sense if the languages were solely human languages. Why would the Corinthians be speaking in all kinds of foreign languages when apparently there was no need for it. There were no foreigners that needed to hear or understand, because Paul specifically says that the tongues must be interpreted to the other Corinthians so they can understand it. The whole context of this passage makes no sense if indeed they were speaking bona fide human languages. Consider 1 Corinthians 14:20-25,

20Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” 22Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign[c] not for unbelievers but for believers. **23If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds? **24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.

Notice verse 23. Now, if I (an unbeliever) walked into a church and people were speaking languages they never learned before, I would think something miraculous is going on. However, because Paul says people will think “these people are out of their minds”, this looks a lot like a Pentecostal church service that has lost all semblance of order.

If the purpose of this gift was to solely speak in human languages for the purpose of spreading the gospel to all people groups and to get the church started, why have a whole congregation with the gift of speaking in languages that they apparently didn’t need?

 

[ashlynette92]

I am sorry I found the OP’s story very hard to follow
it sounds like gossip about the wife of a pastor of a church in another denomination

this is a Catholic forum
we do have a forum for non-Catholic religions, if you want to discuss the views of that denomination

this is the sacred scripture forum
do you have a question about a bible passage or book that relates to this issue?

we also have a spirituality forum and there you will find discussions of the Catholic Charismatic renewal, including the spiritual expressions that come under that heading such as speaking in tongues, but it seems to have very little to do with the people in your story, who are not Catholic.

I am supposed to be making an appointment with my Priest and talk to him about things I don’t know but until then I figured I’d ask on here. So sorry if I put my question in the wrong forum but I was pretty sure that speaking in tounges is a part of “sacred scripture”. was I wrong? And also I told the part about the “gossip” because that’s one of the things that’s wrong with the picture. Supposedly she was involved in witchcraft. But whether that’s true or not my main point wasn’t about her or them not being Catholic. It was about me not knowing about speaking in tounges and what Catholics think of it. And why a Protestant/Follower of Christ is trying to make me feel the way he feels on the matter. So I thought that I could put it in eithier forum.

Hello. I have a question. What exactly is your relationship with this youth group or church? If you say you are Catholic, why are you not surrounding yourself with youth that believe what you believe? From the way you describe things, it certainly doesn’t seem like a welcoming environment for you.

Anyway, I would seek someone within your Catholic community or around here and ask about the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. They will be able to give you the teaching on speaking in tongues from a Catholic perspective. There are indeed Catholics who do speak in tongues. In private, it can be used to deepen one’s prayer life.

On why some Christians emphasize it more than others, all I can say is that there a Christians (Pentecostals and charismatics) who believe that there are periods in Christianity where the miraculous gifts of the Spirit were down played or not taught or not even understood, and Pentecostals and charismatics believe it is important to recover this dimension of Christianity.

I hope you find good information here.

At first it was a welcoming enviornment for me when I was struggling with what I believed in 2006 and rebelling against being Catholic because of my father. But since last year I have tried to get back into the Catholic faith (but I still am not all knowing and of course has questions) and only continued going there because it seemed that’d we’d just discuss the bible and …fellowship? I guess tht’s how I can put it. But about two months ago he would go on these rants and only to me so I have since then stopped going and haven’t been there at all this month. But the problem is I don’t really know all there is to know about what Catholics as a whole believe about Speaking in tounges. So thank you for the information!