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Mysty101
Guest
This was probably a prayer, rather than a teaching tongue.
SuZ
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SuZ
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Elainevw
Guest
All,
I’ve been sitting here reading all the posts, I hear the desires of all the hearts to enlighten and teach the freedom given us in Christ through the Holy Spirit. I read as well from Beng his desires to
save the rest of us by his narrow interprutations of scattered scripture regarding other then the topic at hand, but even here I have to suggest that this person is not terribly unlike Paul who
he quotes, as are sadly many others. Paul with great fervor persecuted the church with only his intellect to guide him. At some point in time I would hope that on his road, Beng too will be thrown off his horse and rescued by the very Spirit that he seemingly limits in fear.
All his posts reminds me only of what St.Ignatius speaks of in his spiritual exercises, all spiritual battle requires self-knowledge, and it seems that Beng is battling in his earnest pursuit of purging sin from his life, hopefully progressing from good to better in the service of God our Lord, but here, even with those of good intent the evil one can and will use this against God’s own. One way is to set up obstacles, unsettling the person by false reasons aimed at preventing their progress. Paul believed earnestly that he too was doing the right thing and he was determined to wipe out the misconceptions of these christians…but in the end in God’s mercy and love, grace and truth Paul encountered God in a way that changed his life forever, darkness which was the obstacle to his sight became the light of God’s Spirit…which always dispels the darkness.
With no malice of heart or word I leave Beng to God, because there is nothing that I or perhaps anyone else can say that he is willing to hear with a mind so cluttered with accumulated facts of the world, the things we speak of are not of the world, not this world, because it is foolishness, just as was the cross of Christ, foolishness to the world, but in charity to all who disagree we enter into God’s justice, and in so doing leave it to God.
May the ruah, the breathe of the Holy Spirit, the sensory image
of the Holy Spirit that Jesus used to suggest to Nicodemus the transcendant newness of him who is personally God’s breath, the divine Spirit, pierce through the darkness and reveal the light so that in Jesus, in the Father, all who are bound by the world, may reach for the breathe and length and height that takes them beyond their human limitations and envelopes them and you Beng, leading you and others on the journey where, as Jesus directs, you too will do greater things then He when the Spirit comes to you in His fullness and foolishness, that foolishness which was the salvation of all bound by sin and all the blind, that they may see that all that is of Christ Jesus is for the Glory of God alone, and receive sight so as to wittness to His Glory.
Till then may you be not a temptation but only a source and attitude of prayer as you reply to every charismatic thread!
Thank you Beng,if not for you I may have been content only in all that comes to me in the Holy Spirit and less aware of all the need that remains for others.
I apologize to others for the drift, I promise to be still.
God bless,
Elaine
I’ve been sitting here reading all the posts, I hear the desires of all the hearts to enlighten and teach the freedom given us in Christ through the Holy Spirit. I read as well from Beng his desires to
save the rest of us by his narrow interprutations of scattered scripture regarding other then the topic at hand, but even here I have to suggest that this person is not terribly unlike Paul who
he quotes, as are sadly many others. Paul with great fervor persecuted the church with only his intellect to guide him. At some point in time I would hope that on his road, Beng too will be thrown off his horse and rescued by the very Spirit that he seemingly limits in fear.
All his posts reminds me only of what St.Ignatius speaks of in his spiritual exercises, all spiritual battle requires self-knowledge, and it seems that Beng is battling in his earnest pursuit of purging sin from his life, hopefully progressing from good to better in the service of God our Lord, but here, even with those of good intent the evil one can and will use this against God’s own. One way is to set up obstacles, unsettling the person by false reasons aimed at preventing their progress. Paul believed earnestly that he too was doing the right thing and he was determined to wipe out the misconceptions of these christians…but in the end in God’s mercy and love, grace and truth Paul encountered God in a way that changed his life forever, darkness which was the obstacle to his sight became the light of God’s Spirit…which always dispels the darkness.
With no malice of heart or word I leave Beng to God, because there is nothing that I or perhaps anyone else can say that he is willing to hear with a mind so cluttered with accumulated facts of the world, the things we speak of are not of the world, not this world, because it is foolishness, just as was the cross of Christ, foolishness to the world, but in charity to all who disagree we enter into God’s justice, and in so doing leave it to God.
May the ruah, the breathe of the Holy Spirit, the sensory image
of the Holy Spirit that Jesus used to suggest to Nicodemus the transcendant newness of him who is personally God’s breath, the divine Spirit, pierce through the darkness and reveal the light so that in Jesus, in the Father, all who are bound by the world, may reach for the breathe and length and height that takes them beyond their human limitations and envelopes them and you Beng, leading you and others on the journey where, as Jesus directs, you too will do greater things then He when the Spirit comes to you in His fullness and foolishness, that foolishness which was the salvation of all bound by sin and all the blind, that they may see that all that is of Christ Jesus is for the Glory of God alone, and receive sight so as to wittness to His Glory.
Till then may you be not a temptation but only a source and attitude of prayer as you reply to every charismatic thread!
Thank you Beng,if not for you I may have been content only in all that comes to me in the Holy Spirit and less aware of all the need that remains for others.
I apologize to others for the drift, I promise to be still.
God bless,
Elaine
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Apologia100
Guest
Huh? :banghead:
Elainevw:
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
God Bless you Elaine.What a great teacher we have.The power of the Holy Spirit is awesome.Just wanted to bring out one point you made. You are right when Jesus said we would do greater thing in His name but the important thing is that we do all the small things first that He commanded us to do,then we will do greater things in His name.Is it possible to do greater things than Jesus did? I was thinking of the Cross.? WOW!
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beng
Guest
Then it should not be speak out loud in front of the faithful.
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beng
Guest
Please, spare me the holier than thou. But do provide scriptural backing.
What I have said is rooted in scriptures and teaching of the Church while Charismaticism is a novel invention by Protestantism.
Please provide scriptural verses or Catholic teaching that says my assertion that speaking tongues in front of congregation is disobedience to the Spirit.
And also please provide scriptural or doctrine whcih approvges the so called Baptism by spirit or slain in the spirit.
Please do not sugar coat your words. But do provide hard evidence and not some warm fuzzy feeling sermon.
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beng
Guest
You’re easily swayed by substanceless words that incite a warm fuzzy feeling ™.God Bless you Elaine.What a great teacher we have.The power of the Holy Spirit is awesome.Just wanted to bring out one point you made. You are right when Jesus said we would do greater thing in His name but the important thing is that we do all the small things first that He commanded us to do,then we will do greater things in His name.Is it possible to do greater things than Jesus did? I was thinking of the Cross.? WOW!
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
You’re easily swayed by substanceless words that incite a warm fuzzy feeling (TM Around we go in the mulbury bush… Let me know when you catch me?
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Mysty101
Guest
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beng
Guest
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Beng, Notice there are two keys there . One is to enter into Christs Heart and the other is for you to unlock yours. Peace and the Love of Jesus Christ be with You. 
M
Makerteacher
Guest
Regarding the idea of being “Baptized in the Holy Spirit”, here is a pertinent quotation which may help. This is clipped from this site:
in-unity.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=1
On this site there is a tab called “No need to fear the Charismatic Renewal”. Some of you might want to follow that link. It is helpful.
BTW, Fr. Cantamalessa is the papal preacher.
Q: There are those in the Church who think that “baptism in the Spirit” is an invention of the charismatics, and that a name has been given to an experience that is not “catalogued” in the Church. Could you explain, from your own experience, what baptism in the Spirit is?
**Father Cantalamessa: ** Baptism in the Spirit is not a human invention; it is a divine invention. It is a renewal of baptism and of the whole of Christian life, of all the sacraments.
For me, it was also a renewal of my religious profession, of my confirmation, and of my priestly ordination. The whole spiritual organism is revived as when wind blows on a flame. Why has the Lord decided to act at this time in such a strong way? We don’t know. It is the grace of a new Pentecost.
It is not about Charismatic Renewal inventing baptism in the Spirit. In fact, many have received baptism in the Spirit without knowing anything about Charismatic Renewal. It is a grace; it depends on the Holy Spirit. It is a coming of the Holy Spirit which is manifested in repentance of sins, in seeing life in a new way, which reveals Jesus as the living Lord – not as a personage of the past – and the Bible becomes a living word. The fact is, this cannot be explained.
There is a revelation with baptism, because the Lord says that whoever believes will be baptized and saved. We received baptism as children and the Church pronounced our act of faith, but the time comes when we must ratify what happened at baptism. This is an occasion to do so, not as a personal effort, but under the action of the Holy Spirit.
One cannot say that hundreds of millions of people are in error. In his book on the Holy Spirit, Yves Congar, that great theologian who did not belong to Charismatic Renewal, said that, in fact, this experience has changed profoundly the lives of many Christians. And it is a fact. It has changed them and initiated paths of holiness.
in-unity.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=1
On this site there is a tab called “No need to fear the Charismatic Renewal”. Some of you might want to follow that link. It is helpful.
BTW, Fr. Cantamalessa is the papal preacher.
Q: There are those in the Church who think that “baptism in the Spirit” is an invention of the charismatics, and that a name has been given to an experience that is not “catalogued” in the Church. Could you explain, from your own experience, what baptism in the Spirit is?
**Father Cantalamessa: ** Baptism in the Spirit is not a human invention; it is a divine invention. It is a renewal of baptism and of the whole of Christian life, of all the sacraments.
For me, it was also a renewal of my religious profession, of my confirmation, and of my priestly ordination. The whole spiritual organism is revived as when wind blows on a flame. Why has the Lord decided to act at this time in such a strong way? We don’t know. It is the grace of a new Pentecost.
It is not about Charismatic Renewal inventing baptism in the Spirit. In fact, many have received baptism in the Spirit without knowing anything about Charismatic Renewal. It is a grace; it depends on the Holy Spirit. It is a coming of the Holy Spirit which is manifested in repentance of sins, in seeing life in a new way, which reveals Jesus as the living Lord – not as a personage of the past – and the Bible becomes a living word. The fact is, this cannot be explained.
There is a revelation with baptism, because the Lord says that whoever believes will be baptized and saved. We received baptism as children and the Church pronounced our act of faith, but the time comes when we must ratify what happened at baptism. This is an occasion to do so, not as a personal effort, but under the action of the Holy Spirit.
One cannot say that hundreds of millions of people are in error. In his book on the Holy Spirit, Yves Congar, that great theologian who did not belong to Charismatic Renewal, said that, in fact, this experience has changed profoundly the lives of many Christians. And it is a fact. It has changed them and initiated paths of holiness.
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beng
Guest
Fr Cantamalessa’s fidelity is questionable (yes, I know that he’s the preacher of the Papal household).
And Baptism of the spirit as believe by Charismatics is a grave error.
S
SPOKENWORD
Guest
Beng. The only way you are going to believe is if you get a hand written note from God and delivered personally.
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Teresa9
Guest
Dear friends
Personally I have found this thread to be beautiful and very enlightening to me as I am quite ignorant of the Charismatic movement as such this bickering of who is right and who is wrong serves no purpose at all other than to cloud the issues, that other people would be most interested to hear about the charistmatics teachings and understandings brought by the Holy Spirit.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
Personally I have found this thread to be beautiful and very enlightening to me as I am quite ignorant of the Charismatic movement as such this bickering of who is right and who is wrong serves no purpose at all other than to cloud the issues, that other people would be most interested to hear about the charistmatics teachings and understandings brought by the Holy Spirit.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
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Mysty101
Guest
Thanks for you peaceful words in this storm. Just use the ignore feature, it brings much peace.
The thread linked below was started as a sharing thread with no debate, so it is a little more peaceful. Please drop in.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=19498
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_12_11.gif
The thread linked below was started as a sharing thread with no debate, so it is a little more peaceful. Please drop in.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=19498
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_12_11.gif
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Makerteacher
Guest
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beng
Guest
EVERY solid Catholic I know. From EWTN experts to mileage apologists have reservation for Charismaticism. Their fidelity is very questionable.
Do read this article by Fr William Most
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beng
Guest
Why afraid of the truth?
Btw, do you happen to find another interpretation of 1Cor 14:27-28?
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beng
Guest
beng:
Here:
Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, OFMCap (preacher to the Papal household). Always quote by Charismatics afficianados becasue he’s the preacher of the papal household (whatever that is).
What google found for moi
Highlights:
… After this decision everything went smoothly, even though I resisted with all my strength. You must realize that I did my best. There was a moment during the prayer meeting when we were in the chapel praying, and I remember saying to myself: “I am a son of St. Francis of Assisi. I have a beautiful spirituality. What am I looking for among these lay brothers?” At that moment a lady opened her Bible and started reading. It was the passage where John the Baptist said to the Pharisees: “Don’t say in your hearts, We are sons of Abraham, we are sons of Abraham.”’
- He got a ticket for an INTERDENOMINATIONAL gathering in Kansas where he caught his charismaticism fever
- He said that SOMEONE (we don’t know whether he’s Catholic or not) spoke prophetic words, which he describe as “authoritative messages spoken in the name of God.” Wow, even private revelation such as the approved Fatima doen’t have any authoritative power whatsoever.
- “This is a prophecy for the future of the church. One day the church shall be reunited in one single visible body. This is how it will happen; through all of us repenting, praying and weeping together, under the Iordship of Christ." But can you imagine, I was still very critical and said to myself: “This is very beautiful. No doubt this comes from the Lord, but I cannot accept it.” I was unprepared to understand the expressions of other Christian denominations, especially Pentecostals.” …
I assure you, this is the way the Holy Spirit builds when he is present in a gathering. He speaks in a simple but very, very strong way. So I stood up (speaking Italian because I did not know any English then) and everybody seemed to understand my Italian. I said: “Lord, I don’t want to say any longer that I am a son of St. Francis of Assisi. I ask you to make me a true son of St. Francis of Assisi. Baptize me with your Holy Spirit.” Then they prayed over me. I recall somebody saying: "Choose Jesus as Lord of your life."
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