Speaking in tounges

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jkdrum:
I dont mean praying could be cursing.
For instance if you praying in tongues and you did not know the words you were speaking then you may be in danger of that.
No, you are not.
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jkdrum:
I am not talking about the case which you making the conscious decision to say “hail mary full of grace” but when you try and say it it comes out “hum didleo do ba da.” or something of the sort.
Neither am I.
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jkdrum:
… I dont believe in the cases where someone just starts babling then has no idea of what they are saying. in that case you could be cursing without your knowledge. The reason why i say that is because the devil can also make signs and wonders and people would think its from God. Also a feeling of peace or joy is not real evidence that it is the holy spirit working. It could just as easily be the devil too.
I know no one who has prayed with me in tongues who “just starts babbling.” It has nothing to do with babbling, and to say that it does is somewhat fell. 😦 In an earlier post, I noted that I cannot turn it on and off; when it happens, it happens. Also,I said nothing about feelings. What I said was that I knew I had praised, given thanks, interceded, or as the prayer was intended. If you are working on the assumption that Charismatics pray in order to foster certain feelings, you are quite mistaken – at least about the Catholic Charismatics I know. Maybe Holy Rollers did, but Catholic Charismatics don’t.

If you really want to know what Catholic Charismatics are about, get your hand on a copy of a booklet called “Life In The Spirit.” I must tell you that at the moment your posts bespeak very little first-hand insight into the Catholic Charismatic movement.

Let me just add that I am a life scientist who earns his living in science with the Gov’t of Canada. I have a healthy skepticism; it’s a tool of the trade. Nothing I have come upon in the Catholic Charismatic movement has tripped the skepticism wire – and I have a very tuned wire.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
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jkdrum:
I dont mean praying could be cursing.
For instance if you praying in tongues and you did not know the words you were speaking then you may be in danger of that.
No, you are not.
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jkdrum:
I am not talking about the case which you making the conscious decision to say “hail mary full of grace” but when you try and say it it comes out “hum didleo do ba da.” or something of the sort.
Neither am I.
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jkdrum:
… I dont believe in the cases where someone just starts babling then has no idea of what they are saying. in that case you could be cursing without your knowledge. The reason why i say that is because the devil can also make signs and wonders and people would think its from God. Also a feeling of peace or joy is not real evidence that it is the holy spirit working. It could just as easily be the devil too.
I know no one who has prayed with me in tongues who “just starts babbling.” It has nothing to do with babbling, and to say that it does is somewhat fell. 😦 In an earlier post, I noted that I cannot turn it on and off; when it happens, it happens. Also,I said nothing about feelings. What I said was that I knew I had praised, given thanks, interceded, or as the prayer was intended. If you are working on the assumption that Charismatics pray in order to foster certain feelings, you are quite mistaken – at least about the Catholic Charismatics I know. Maybe Holy Rollers did, but Catholic Charismatics don’t.

If you really want to know what Catholic Charismatics are about, get your hand on a copy of a booklet called “Life In The Spirit.” I must tell you that at the moment your posts bespeak very little first-hand insight into the Catholic Charismatic movement.

Let me just add that I am a life scientist who earns his living in science with the Gov’t of Canada. I have a healthy skepticism; it’s a tool of the trade. Nothing I have come upon in the Catholic Charismatic movement has tripped the skepticism wire – and I have a very tuned wire.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
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jkdrum:
Also a feeling of peace or joy is not real evidence that it is the holy spirit working. It could just as easily be the devil too.
You are completely right. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

Look at the fruits of the Renewal, and you’ll find an increased love for the Lord, increased levels of service to others, and increased devotion to the true teachings of the Faith. We are Catholics who attend daily Mass, participate in Eucharistic Adoration, receive frequent reconciliation, have an dramatic increase in vocations from our families and communities, have regular personal prayer times, serve on parish councils, help run Catholic schools, provide medical services in the poorest sections of the world, build houses for the homeless, etc etc. Go to one of the Fraternity community websites and SEE what we are doing!

Feelings are the gravy, NOT the meat, and we know that. But there is nothing wrong with having gravy with your meat!
 
Yes I do know that this does exist. My father was apart of it and he was also delivered from smoking after he started. He went to the charasmatic prayer groups and prayed in tongues also. I guess my whole point is that anything like that needs to be tested to see if its really from God. I also know of someone else who found out his tongues were not from God. Like the priveous post said you have to look at the fruits.
 
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robertaf:
Good Morning Church

With kindest respect, that answer is wrong.
You were just told about one type of tongues. However, there is more than one type and it is very scriptural.
They type you experienced was PRAYING in tongues. This is often done in Praise and Worship when there are no english words to express our love and praise for God. It is also used when we don’t know how to pray, for instance, in your circumstance. This prayer allows the Holy Spirit to enter into our prayers in a different way using a language we do not understand.
There is much misunderstanding of the Charismatic Renewal and the gifts of the Holy Spirit in discussion groups so I urge you to take much of the negative remarks in the spirit they were given. Search out the truth for yourself. Be confident that this is a Renewal in the Church blessed and encouraged by the Holy Father.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_14.gif
robertaf,

I just wanted to thank you for helping to clarify what speaking in tongues is actually about. I’ve recently been introduced to speaking in tongues, and have met 2 men as my spiritual guides in this Charismatic Gift. What they have told me, and what you have written are exactly correct.
:blessyou:
 
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shannin:
I belong to a small group that gets together and says the Rosary twice a month. Last week two of the women in this group prayed over me for a special intention of mine. They prayed in tounges, both at the same time.

I just read another post in here that said two people are not supposed to speak simutaneously in tounges.

How can I tell if this is from God?
There is nothing really wrong w/ this since it is not prophecy it is simply a charism being used in what is know as “prayer in the Spirit”. Not everyone has this gift…I received it many years ago when prayed over at what the Charismatics call “Baptizim in the Holy Spirit”. I only use it when in deep prayer, i.e. after Communion or when words or thoughts fail to explain my needs. I always use it quietly so as not to cause concern to others who don’t understand. Annunciata:)
 
Dear Folks, I perceive the Charismatical Renewal as ongoing Pentecost just like Eucharist is continuation of the Last Supper .We are not to force our spirituality on others. God himself does not interfere with another’s free will .It would be nice if our diocesan bishop were open to the renewal and laity as well. I have heard that the Pope has the charism of tongues (of recent, from a reliable source.) He does speak many languages .Sometimes tongues can be identified as a specific contemporary language or even an ancient one.There are books explaining this charism. Most times from my experience ,the language is unidentifiable but at times quite clearly the Lord speaking through others.There is discernment by those with that gift, but it is still up to the beleiver what they accept as true.I know mine and mine know Me. One knows the voice of the Shepherd.We have a Renewal Mass next month for the first time in years in this city, The Spirit is A’Movin to be sure! Praise God!
 
P.S., I do not allow just anyone to lay hands on me to pray. At renewal Masses healing teams have been prayed for beforehand by others, then at Mass before ministering and are people of prayer. I do not wish to pick up spiritual garbage and look to God’s prompting as to who m I pray over . I f I forget to say a prayer for protection, then hopefully God covers me. I read about Pentecostals praying over someone for smoking cessation and the prayer partners who got rid of smoking resumed the addiction for not having prayed for God’s protection. I am not on the healing team in the renewal .I frown upon Reiki and even if I had a massage, which I don’t, I would not let a New Ager masseuse touch me. I have had offers of Christians to pray over me at times and refused Catholics and other Christians if my spirit prompted me to refuse.Enough said.
 
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Starflower:
P.S., I do not allow just anyone to lay hands on me to pray. At renewal Masses healing teams have been prayed for beforehand by others, then at Mass before ministering and are people of prayer. I do not wish to pick up spiritual garbage and look to God’s prompting as to who m I pray over . I f I forget to say a prayer for protection, then hopefully God covers me. I read about Pentecostals praying over someone for smoking cessation and the prayer partners who got rid of smoking resumed the addiction for not having prayed for God’s protection. I am not on the healing team in the renewal .I frown upon Reiki and even if I had a massage, which I don’t, I would not let a New Ager masseuse touch me. I have had offers of Christians to pray over me at times and refused Catholics and other Christians if my spirit prompted me to refuse.Enough said.
Starflower , I agree with you, I also will not just anyone
pray over me,but remember if you have the armour of God on you will be protected. 👍
 
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shannin:
I belong to a small group that gets together and says the Rosary twice a month. Last week two of the women in this group prayed over me for a special intention of mine. They prayed in tounges, both at the same time.

I just read another post in here that said two people are not supposed to speak simutaneously in tounges.

How can I tell if this is from God?
1 Cor 14:27-28
27 If any speak with a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and in course: and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him hold his peace in the church and speak to himself and to God.

Do follow the scripture instead of erroneous Charismatic afficianados.

If you heard tongue among Christian without any interpretation you can tell that it’s a disobedience and you should stay away from it.
 
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robertaf:
Good Morning Church

With kindest respect, that answer is wrong.
You were just told about one type of tongues. However, there is more than one type and it is very scriptural.
They type you experienced was PRAYING in tongues. This is often done in Praise and Worship when there are no english words to express our love and praise for God. It is also used when we don’t know how to pray, for instance, in your circumstance. This prayer allows the Holy Spirit to enter into our prayers in a different way using a language we do not understand.
There is much misunderstanding of the Charismatic Renewal and the gifts of the Holy Spirit in discussion groups so I urge you to take much of the negative remarks in the spirit they were given. Search out the truth for yourself. Be confident that this is a Renewal in the Church blessed and encouraged by the Holy Father.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_14.gif
1Cor 14:27-28 doesn’t make any distinction.

If there’s incomprehensible babling among believer without interpretation then what you have is the spirit of disobedience.
 
Gerry Hunter:
I’d like to underline the importance of the distinction.

Our parish has an active Charismatic prayer group. I joined it following a “Life in the Spirit” seminar, and if anyone is curious about the Charismatic movement, the booklet for that seminar (it’s not hard to come by) is a good resource. Our prayer group prays in tongues, and more frequently, praises, sings, in tongues, during our weekly gatherings, and does so as a group. Often, people speak out with messages that they perceive are meant for the group during its prayer and praise, or read passages from Holy Scripture they perceive are directed to the group’s attention. This never happens in tongues in our group – I’m not saying it couldn’t, but as common as praying in tongues may be with us, prophesying in tongues has not occurred.

In the Charismatic movement, the gift of tongues is ranked as the least of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Why? The primary purpose of the Gifts of the Spirit are for the building up of the community. The gift of tongues, particularly praying in tongues, is focused on the individual, giving him or her another “language” in which to worship and praise. Prophesying in tongues is best thought of as a manifestation of the gift of prophesy – a gift meant for the community – rather than of the gift of tongues. That is in keeping with the passage in Holy Scripture that states when such prophesy in tongues occurs, there WILL be someone there to interpret it.

The gift of tongues, in respect to praying in tongues, is very hard to elaborate on. When it happens, it happens, and no explanation is needed. Speaking personally, it’s not something I can turn on and off; as I said, when it happens, it happens. I had always wondered about it, but never really worried about it much. Now I know that I was right not to worry. Romans 8:26 comes to mind: “Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words.” I can tell you that when it happens, I know I have prayed, and I am grateful for having been given the “unwords” to do so.

By the way, this gift is not something special for a “select” group of Christians. It’s available for the asking.

Blessings,

Gerry Hunter
Do you have valid interpreter?

If not then the movement is filled with spirit of disobedience.
 
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Annunciata:
There is nothing really wrong w/ this since it is not prophecy it is simply a charism being used in what is know as “prayer in the Spirit”. Not everyone has this gift…I received it many years ago when prayed over at what the Charismatics call “Baptizim in the Holy Spirit”. I only use it when in deep prayer, i.e. after Communion or when words or thoughts fail to explain my needs. I always use it quietly so as not to cause concern to others who don’t understand. Annunciata:)
Baptism in the Holy Spirit after you received water baptism is heretical.

Water baptism gives you the Holy Spirit that regenerate and trnasform you.
 
Beng , I tell this to you in Love. With this subject of speaking or praying in tongues, you do not have a teachable spirit.In your mind you feel you are correct and there is nothing that is going to change your mind. So when you come in with this spirit all you do is cause strife. Are you glorifying God in your actions? Again I tell you this in God Love. You can have all the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in you but if you do not have Love all you are is a noisy gong or a clanging symbol. Pray that the Lord will show you His Truth and not your truth. God Bless you in this search for Truth. 😉
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Beng , I tell this to you in Love. With this subject of speaking or praying in tongues, you do not have a teachable spirit.In your mind you feel you are correct and there is nothing that is going to change your mind. So when you come in with this spirit all you do is cause strife. Are you glorifying God in your actions? Again I tell you this in God Love. You can have all the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in you but if you do not have Love all you are is a noisy gong or a clanging symbol. Pray that the Lord will show you His Truth and not your truth. God Bless you in this search for Truth. 😉
Spokenword, explain 1 Cor 14:27-28 to me.
 
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beng:
Baptism in the Holy Spirit after you received water baptism is heretical.

Water baptism gives you the Holy Spirit that regenerate and trnasform you.
ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/Cantalamessa/Cantalamessa_002.html
**
Baptism in the Holy Spirit by Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, OFMCap (preacher to the Papal household)
*SUMMARY: The Baptism in the Spirit is not a sacrament, but it is related to several sacraments. The Baptism in the Spirit makes real and in a way renews Christian initiation. At the beginning of the Church, Baptism was administered to adults who converted from paganism and who, made on the occasion of Baptism, an act of faith and a free and mature choice. Today it is substituted instead by intermediary parents or godparents. In this situation, rarely, or never, does the baptized person ever reach the stage of proclaiming in the Holy Spirit *“Jesus is Lord”. And until one reaches this point, everything else in the Christian life remains out of focus and immature. Miracles no longer happen and we experience what Jesus did in Nazareth: “Jesus could not perform many miracles because of their lack of faith” (Mt.13.58). The Baptism in the Spirit’s effectiveness in reactivating baptism consists in this: finally man contributes his part – namely, he makes a choice of faith, prepared in repentance, that allows the that allows the work of God to set itself free and to emanate all its strength. It is as if the plug is pulled and the light is switched on. The gift of God is finally “untied” and the Spirit is allowed to flow like a ftragrance in the Christian life.

​

 
continued—

**

Baptism in the Spirit and the Sacrament of Baptism​

The Baptism in the Spirit is not a sacrament, but it is related to a sacrament, to several sacraments in fact – to the sacraments of Christian initiation. The Baptism in the Spirit makes real and in a way renews Christian initiation. The primary relationship is with the Sacrament of Baptism. In fact, this experience is called the Baptism in the Spirit by English-speaking people.

We believe that the Baptism in the Spirit makes real and revitalizes our baptism. To understand how a sacrament which was received so many years ago, usually immediately after our birth, could suddenly come back to life and emanate so much energy, as often happens through the Baptism in the Spirit, it is important to look at our understanding of sacramental theology.

Catholic theology recognizes the concept of a valid but “tied” sacrament. A sacrament is called tied if the fruit that should accompany it remains bound because of certain blocks that prevent its effectiveness. An extreme example of this is the Sacrament of Matrimony or Holy Orders received in the state of mortal sin. In such circumstances these sacraments cannot grant any grace to people until the obstacle of sin is removed through penance. Once this happens the sacrament is said to live again thanks to the indelible character and irrevocability of the gift of God: God remains faithful even if we are unfaithful because He cannot deny Himself (see Timothy 2:13).

In the case of baptism what is it that causes the fruit of the sacrament to stay tied? The sacraments are not magical rituals that act mechanically, without the person’s knowledge or disregarding any response on his part. Their effectiveness is the fruit of a synergy or cooperation between divine omnipotence – in reality the grace of Christ or the Holy Spirit – and human freedom, because as St. Augustine said, “The one who created you without your cooperation, will not save without your cooperation.”

The opus operatum of baptism, namely, God’s part or grace, has several aspects – forgiveness of sins, the gift of the theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity (these, however, only as a seed), and divine sonship – all of which are operated through the effective action of the Holy Spirit. But what does the opus operantis in baptism – namely, man’s part, consist of? It consists of faith! Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:16). At the side of baptism, therefore, there is another element: the faith of man. “To all who received Him He gave the power to become children of God: to those who believe in His name” (John 1:13). Baptism is like a divine seal put on the faith of man: having heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation and having believed in it, you have received (of course, in baptism) the seal of the Holy Spirit (see Ephesians 1:13

**
 
From Fr William G. Most’s Errors in Charismatic

…

In a Catholic Team Manual, Finding New Life in the Spirit, p.25 the** candidate is instructed to say, after some preparation: “I ask you to baptize me in the Holy Spirit and give me the gift of tongues.”

This is contrary to Vatican II. In On the Church §12 the Council distinguishes ordinary and extraordinary charisms: “The extraordinary gifts are not to be rashly asked for, nor should the fruits of apostolic works be presumptuously expected from them; but the judgment of their genuine character and the ordered exercise of them pertains to those who preside in the Church…”**
…

Some charismatics claim what they have is merely the activation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, which does not happen in the usual Catholic. They call this Baptism in the Spirit. This too is a great error. All receive these Gifts along with sanctifying grace, and they have an increase at Confirmation and other times. But normally they do not show clear and overt effects until one is far advanced in the spiritual life - earlier, there may be latent effects. Still further, the effects of these Gifts are not the miraculous phenomena - that would be to confuse the sanctifying and the charismatic categories. Some also tend to be fundamentalistic in understanding Scripture.

Many charismatics today are trying to say all Catholics must be charismatic,** that “baptism in the spirit” was routine in the Patristic age**. We find this clearly in a booklet, Fanning the Flame, by Kilian Mc Donnell (Liturgical Press,1991). He cites a few patristic texts to try to show these phenomena were routine in the patristic age. But the texts given are few, just three are given: Fairly clear are those of Tertullian, St. Hilary, St. Cyril of Jerusalem. But the booklet admits on p.18 that: “Both Basil of Caesarea… and Gregory Nazianzus… situate the prophetic charisms within the Christian initiation, though they are more reserved in their regard than Paul.” No quotes are given. Then we see a remarkable admission on St. John Chrysostom, quoted on the same page, “Chrysostom complained, however ‘the charisms are long gone.’” St. Augustine, in City of God (21.5), has to argue strongly that miracles are possible, against those in his day who denied the possibility. He says that if they want to say the Apostles converted the world without any miracles - that would be a great miracle. If there were miraculous gifts commonly around, Augustine would have merely pointed to them. But he did not.

Still further, historically. The miraculous gifts were common in Paul’s day, but at least by the middle of the next century became scarce in the mainline Church, but common in heretical groups. The present movement started in 1901 among Protestants. By 1925 there were about 38 denominations in the U.S. alone. Some decades later, in 1966. some Catholics, precisely by contact with the Protestants, asked that the Protestants lay hands on them, to receive tongues - for tongues were supposed to be the sign that one had been baptized in the Spirit.
 
I’d take the word of Fr William Most anyday over some unknown theologian.
 
Lo and behold, I found this from a Traditionalist site (dunno whether the radical type or not)
Yet, at the Vatican’s Good Friday Liturgy, 2002, the Preacher to the Papal Household, Capuchin Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, said the other religions “are not merely tolerated by God …. but positively willed by Him as an expression of the inexhaustible richness of His grace and His will for everyone to be saved.” (4)
Code:
4. All quotes from Fr. Cantalamessa's sermon are from the April 2, 2002 Catholic News Service report.
 
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