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Exporter
Guest
If you are not familiar with this Order please use this site for an introduction. More than one LOC Priest writes an essay.
rickross.com/groups/loc.html
The posts above were NOT hearsay.
- Status
If you are not familiar with this Order please use this site for an introduction. More than one LOC Priest writes an essay.
rickross.com/groups/loc.html
The posts above were NOT hearsay.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Exporter said:
Actually it is hearsay unless they are documents with court affidavits proving the individuals are who they say they are.
I would also direct you to the Legion’s webpage and their rebuttal page for some of the crud on the site you list.
Legionaries of Christ
LegionaryFacts.org
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misericordie
Guest
The fact that you post their web-site means very little to the argument: that’s THEIR web-site, ummmm won’t be very objective would it? The fact that these ex-seminarians afetr so many years continue their story without a flinch, and the fact that the VATICAN ITSELF VERY VERY recently re-opened the case, says MUCH!! let’s stop denying that there is EVER anything ever wrong, let’s stop believing that ALL priests are saints, that they have NEVER done anything (any priest ever) and lets get with reality.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
It is as objective as the websites posted that are against the Legion.
Actually it is more objective as it the second website I listed is the Legion’s response to the criticisms.
Yes the Vatican re-opening the case does say much, it says that they are looking at it again. It does not say that anything is wrong.
Hmmm, please point out where I say any of that.
I think you need to respect the office of the priest a bit more and you need to stop looking at every priest as a potential sex abuser.
Let me add that the case that was re-opened by the Vatican is not a case against the Legion of Christ, it is a case against its founder, Fr. Marcial Maciel Degollado.
If the Vatican and the Holy Father had issues with the Legion they would not allow the Legion to have a seminary in Rome and the Holy Father would not have Legion seminarians serving at his Liturgies.
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felra
Guest
In my somewhat infrequent but substantial contact with LOC priests and more some with Regnum Christi lay members, I have never been given reason to be wary or to question their orthodoxy or have observed any liturgical abuses or strange. They definitely impress me as a structured lay apostolate, and their seminary formation extension, more removed from mainstream society contact, but after all they are a religious community. I can understand how some folks question the formation to the priesthood from high school onward as appropriate, but, with today’s eroded society values what are they potentially at loss of?
The main complaint that I hear from others is their orthodoxy and strict adherence to ascetical practices/requirements; which is a good indicator for an order seeking to ad reform to the Church. As with any new religious order/movement, there will always be the extremes/abuses, but, let’s not throw out the baby (authentic charism of the Holy Spirit) with the bath water. As usual, the most vociferous opponents/detractors to the LOC/Regnum Christi are those who feel “burned” or “orthodoxy challenged”, which I understand too. This is my :twocents: .
The main complaint that I hear from others is their orthodoxy and strict adherence to ascetical practices/requirements; which is a good indicator for an order seeking to ad reform to the Church. As with any new religious order/movement, there will always be the extremes/abuses, but, let’s not throw out the baby (authentic charism of the Holy Spirit) with the bath water. As usual, the most vociferous opponents/detractors to the LOC/Regnum Christi are those who feel “burned” or “orthodoxy challenged”, which I understand too. This is my :twocents: .
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misericordie
Guest
While you order me to have more respect for the priestly office, at the same time your wanting to believe that all is hay okay with the Church’s SECRECY does in fact injustice to the really good HOLY and psychologically sound seminarians and priests, by giving off the idea that the priest is a miniture god and therefore can NEVER do anything wrong. Also, God forbid anything would ever be pointed out by the poor ignorant lay people as us. After all, we are not priests, ONLY they know. The attacks only come from a horrible media and all are lies, there is never anything wrong, it’s that those lay people are against us, and want to break our wall of secrecy and superiority OVER them. Are these the ideas you are supporting?? Well, I know MANY a priest who say things like I just posted. What a UN-charity and INjustice to the victims of secrecy and abuse in the church. The clericalism and authoritarianism=“the laity don’t really know, only we do and they must do what WE priests say” MUST end.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I have never said any such thing.
And just because one person is accused of something does not make that person guilty nor does it make a whole religious order guilty.
You seem to dislike the way the Legion forms its members. That does not mean it is wrong nor bad, after all the Church has approved them.
I will also add that there is a difference between secrecy and your right/need to know. If the Legion will not give you a copy of their constitutions it does not mean they are practicing secrecy. As those who need them, like the Vatican and the members of the Legion, have access to them. It may just be that you do not have a need to see them and they are protecting their rights as a group to not give them to everyone who demands a copy.
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bear06
Guest
It would seem that some people do not appreciate the rules of the LOC. This rather mirrors the complaints that people make about Opus Dei. In the same way that everyone is not called to the priesthood, everyone is not called to the same order. Some people tend to think something must be wrong with an order if it’s not the right one for them. I think if you looked at some of the ways some of the Saints ran their orders, people could get the same ideas about them as the LOCs. St. Francis was thought to be to rigid and looney by many of his day.
As for secrecy, once again, I’ve heard Opus Dei falsely accused of the same thing.
As far as the scandals go, I’ve yet to see an order without at least one person accused of something. I’ve also met priests from both of these orders and can attest to their orthodoxy so despite the scandals, whether they be credible or not, somebody somewhere is doing something right. It makes no sense to throw the baby out with the bath water. I’ve also met priests falsley accused (with hard fact to back it up) so I don’t buy into all of the accusations.
I’m of the mind that you don’t leave any priest, no matter how great you think they are, alone with a child outside of a screened confessional. It’s not that I think they’re all predators, I just don’t see the need. I’ve noticed that those who send their boys to minor seminaries usually come from a culture where this is the norm. While I wouldn’t personally do this, I also don’t condemn it. Minor seminaries have a history in our Church.
I’ve got to say that psychological testing sounds like a solution but it’s not. Many of these predator priests were sent off to counseling after their abuses came to light and were assured that they were cured. Obviously, too many Church leaders bought into the psychologists’ findings. Why in heaven’s name should we trust them now?
I think Mis is right in a way. Priests are not infallible and anyone can fall. However, that said, I certainly wouldn’t condemn a whole order for something that one priest does. (I’m not saying I believe or disbelieve the complaints against the Fr. Marciel). If we were going to do this then we’d have to condemn just about all of the orthodox orders!
As for secrecy, once again, I’ve heard Opus Dei falsely accused of the same thing.
As far as the scandals go, I’ve yet to see an order without at least one person accused of something. I’ve also met priests from both of these orders and can attest to their orthodoxy so despite the scandals, whether they be credible or not, somebody somewhere is doing something right. It makes no sense to throw the baby out with the bath water. I’ve also met priests falsley accused (with hard fact to back it up) so I don’t buy into all of the accusations.
I’m of the mind that you don’t leave any priest, no matter how great you think they are, alone with a child outside of a screened confessional. It’s not that I think they’re all predators, I just don’t see the need. I’ve noticed that those who send their boys to minor seminaries usually come from a culture where this is the norm. While I wouldn’t personally do this, I also don’t condemn it. Minor seminaries have a history in our Church.
I’ve got to say that psychological testing sounds like a solution but it’s not. Many of these predator priests were sent off to counseling after their abuses came to light and were assured that they were cured. Obviously, too many Church leaders bought into the psychologists’ findings. Why in heaven’s name should we trust them now?
I think Mis is right in a way. Priests are not infallible and anyone can fall. However, that said, I certainly wouldn’t condemn a whole order for something that one priest does. (I’m not saying I believe or disbelieve the complaints against the Fr. Marciel). If we were going to do this then we’d have to condemn just about all of the orthodox orders!
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Therese_Martin
Guest
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