Speaking of TOXIC family...I need your advice

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KC you feel guilty because you are a good human being who loves her mom. Be thankful that her melodramatic insanity didn’t make you shut down your emotions.

You have to get past your own emotions because they aren’t doing you any good. As a mom, you are doing what you need to do but as a daughter you hurt for your mom. Sadly in this situation you can’t protect both your daughter and your mom.

I don’t think that you have an intellictual issue with what you are doing, but emotionally you are feeling intense pain, guilt and anger. You want that pain to stop. But it isn’t-sorry, I’ve been there and I understand the guilt. Sadly, because of your mother’s personality, you are going to be left with these horrible feelings. BUt just because your feel horrible doesn’t mean that you aren’t doing the right thing.

I know that is hard to comprehend because we are taught that doing right should make us feel great. But in reality sometimes doing the correct thing doesn’t take away the pain.

At least you are a strong enough person to overcome your own emotions, this was something that your mom couldn’t do. If she is like my mom was then your mom probably gives into every passing emotion and never tries to control herself. You aren’t like that, you are doing what is right for your kids even though it is causing you great pain. Guess what? You are a great mom.

Just curious, why didn’t your mom call you instead of putting all this on your grandmother?
 
you already know the answer. write these people out of your life to protect your own family, with whom your primary obligation lies. Pray for them, respond on any occasion when you are in a position to offer real help, but long distance. No more visits, no more “weddings” no more bailing out drunks and addicts who refuse help. You do absolutely nothing positive for a loved one when you enable their behavior, and standing there as a target is enabling. I graduated from toxic family U with a master’s degree, so I know what I am talking about.

I just heard this coincidentally from a nun giving a talk at my meeting: do not carry around as your own someone else’s burden, especially their burden of guilt, to do so is spiritual suicide. It is spiritually dangerous to assume as your own the guilt another should feel because of their own actions.
 
KC, I’m sorry to hear about the difficult family troubles. My wife also comes from a very toxic family. She was physically, emotionally and sexually abused by her father. Her mother was too terrified to do anything about it (FIL got MIL pregnant when she was 15, he was 21, yeah rape).

We only got sanity when we cut out her family completely. Him we will never ever see again. Wife and MIL occasionally speak over the phone.

Cut them all out of you life my dear. You owe it to yourself, your DH and children. Don’t let your family continue the cycle of abuse on your family.
 
Deb brings up a really good point. Just because an act makes us feel bad doesn’t make it wrong. (The reverse of this is that just because something “feels so right” doesn’t make it moral.)
 
KC,

My prayers are with you and your family! It is certainly difficult dealing with dysfunctional family members. I, like Puzzleannie, have “graduated from Toxic Family U with a master’s degree”. Some insights to offer you resolve and peace:

When there are periods without drama and relatively quiet, decide in a rational manner what is to be done in various situations. Resolve to follow through. Try not to let emotions interfere with the reasonable and rational course of action when the drama flares. Write down the resolutions if you have to.

You are right to put your children and husband first. Their safety and well-being are most important.

What is truly in the best interest of your mother? Continuing the same patterns and hoping for a different outcome? It would be insane to visit her and expect it to change the situation. You actually need to be strong in this regard in order to help your mother in the long term. Yes, she and your grandmother will make you feel horrible and guilty. But take satisfaction knowing you will no longer enable her destructive behavior.

You are in no way being heartless. Being heartless would mean not caring. You obviously do care. In my thinking, it would be heartless to continue supporting your mother’s destructive behavior. Just like in parenting, it is much harder to enforce discipline in the short term but oh so beneficial in the long term.

When other family members ask me to step in to help a third party, often times they use guilt as a motivator. “Don’t you think you should do something?” My response is that I am powerless. I humbly acknowledge that I have no control over someone elses behavior. It is playing God to think we can be the sole motivating force for change.

Also, I have been duped many times by apologies. “I am sorry. I am changing.” I now look for proof. Liars lie. If someone is really changing their life around, you will notice. It will be more than words.

I understand your desire to have your mom change and for her to have a relationship with your children. It is the desire for the ideal. I didn’t have grandparents growing up and always envied my friends who did. When we had children I tried really hard for the grandparents to be the ones I dreamed of. Right now, for your children, there could be a whole lot worse than not having a grandmother.

May you have peace knowing that you are doing the right thing for everyone. You are caring and conscientious. Your children are blest. Best wishes for a happy delivery.

MC
 
I will pray for you. Your mom needs medical attention (psycological), but you don’t have to deliver it. Have your baby, love up your dh and dc. Pray for your mom and light a candle for her. Maybe send her a card after the baby is born. But don’t think you need to do anything else.
 
Biblically, marriage is a “leave and cleave”–you leave your childhood home and cleave to your spouse. THAT is your family. Your primary responsibility is to your husband and children. Children can’t understand things…they don’t know how to evaluate their gramma’s behavior and character. The less of their gramma, the better. You don’t want to NORMALIZE that for them.

Your mom and gramma sound like masters of manipulation. You will never convince them or justify yourself to them. I would try to switch all communication to mailed greeting cards only, very brief. Any phone calls have a time limit and if the communication goes bad, it ends immediately.

These people have no boundaries and so it’s up to you to draw the boundaries. In fact, there’s an excellent book called Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud and you will read it and highlight tons of stuff and scream YES!!! It will tell you how they will try and make you out to be the crazy one, when it’s obvious that you’re the sane one and they’re crazy.

The way to honor your parents and fulfill the commandment is to be the best parent you can be to your children, and to realize that your mom is an adult with free will and she will never take advice from a person whose diapers she changed. (Powdered Butt Syndrome.) If she wants to be sick and crazy, so be it. You will pray for her forevermore. If she has wealth, she has the means to house and feed herself. You are not worried about her basic survival it sounds like.

I was really surprised when you said you were a guest in her house with a newborn! I thought, OMG you are suffering very poor judgment to stay at her house.

BTW it has nothing to do with Randy or her current DH. SHE is toxic. She’s a drunk and all alcoholics are inherently selfish. She will always love her booze and her current stud more than her own daughter and grandchildren…sounds harsh but watch her choices. She keeps choosing booze/stud!

So, no total cutoff, but minimize contact, decide on your rules for contact and stick with them, and do NOT let these toxic people into your children’s lives. You want them to be healthy.

BTW if you don’t know from personal experience yet, the greatest danger to a child is an unrelated adult male in the household. Mom’s DH’s are not EVER to be overnight in your house or you in theirs. Protect your children!
 
Good insights Liz. I love that Powdered Butt Syndrome phrase. I’m stealin’ it!

😉

One thing… there is a lot to be said for “a daughter is a daughter all her life.” And this is where KC is torn. Scripture phrases it very interestingly, and with keen insight into human psychology and survival patterns. “A man shall leave his father and mother and a woman leave her home.” Think about it. God knows that the man leaves PEOPLE, but a woman leaves a PLACE. Very different psychological perspectives there…

Especially in that time… a woman needed her family relatives for her basic survival. Most women never completely leave their families. I’ve known women who live down the street from their mothers and sisters. There is still a very strong psychological and emotional tie there. It was necessary for women as they gave birth and depended on their female relatives for help and advice and care. Though they lived with their husbands, they were still very much linked to their family of origin. Barring huge disfunction there, I think most women even today feel that way. Instinctively many women want their mother around when they have their babies. Even St. Elizabeth had her female relative Mary around when she had St. John.

But when the mother is irresponsible and unavailable, that deep-seated need goes unfilled, and that’s the source of KC’s sadness.

But God knew the woman’s heart when He handed down that biblical passage. And those who have had diabolically abusive husbands know that the tie between a woman and her mother and family of origin is the first one he attacks when he is trying to destroy his wife.
 
It seems counter-intuitive, and against the 4th commandment (Honor your parents), but you MUST stay away from your mother. God does not want us to be abused. Do NOT have contact with her. And definitely seek counseling (from someone you feel comfortable with and find competent- there are good ones and bad ones). Like it or not, you have likely picked up coping mechanisms and beliefs that may not serve you well. Speaking from experience. God bless you.
 
KC, who is your mother? “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”

You are not capable of “fixing” your mother. And even if you culd, you owe it to your present family to protect them from the damaging effects of her illness.

Legally you can do nothing with her/for her until she crosses the line into harming herself or others.

Is your mom my SIL?
 
I think my niece will be writing this about my sister in 15 years or so. My sister is 31 and on her 3rd marriage. He latest addiction is prescription drugs and migrane shots.

I think no contact is the way to go. Or you could write her a letter telling her that if she can be in therapy, AA, etc for a year then you will reevaluate her position in your family, but until then there will be no contact. You know what you need to do. Obviouls God would not want your children to be exposed to all of this.
 
I am so sorry to hear about your trouble. There’s some great advice from others here already, so I’ll be brief.

You must break the cycle. I’m not speaking directly about the cycle of violence that your mother is drawn to. Rather, the cycle of emotional abuse and guilt your mother breeds in relationships. Your mother seems to thrive on being the victim, gets pleasure from “forgiving”, knowing she’ll be victimized again. She has your grandmother doing the same thing - convincing the grandmother to help her out of the situation so she can put herself back in it.

Essentially, your grandmother is infected with the same self-destruction mascquerading as love that guides your mother’s relationships. To run to her aid again essentially is the same thing your mother does with these men, only her scars are physical, and yours were emotional. Please, for your husband and children, chose a different path than that which infests your mother and grandmother (and I’d venture to say continues further into the past).
 
Thank you all for the wonderful advice and support.

I feel much better about the whole situation. I slept pretty well last night (only got up once with acid reflux! hey!) and slept on it. I had already resolved by bed time to not call, and to not answer the phone when grandma calls. I had effectively staved off a full blown stress migraine…although if my last two posts were hard to make out it’s due to a throbbing headache. It’s funny I stay away from my mother for over two years, I have only talked to her once in that time (two years ago) and rarely talk abotu my mom with grandma – and YET I almost get sucked back in. Even if I wont act on it, the stress, the freak out and what not…it is bound to happen because its a hard cycle to break. Even if I have essentially broke it, my physiological/psychological responses are a little bit beyond my control even after a few years.

So yeah, I calmed down. I let it go. Just STAY AWAY from me!

I am a bit angry because I was prepping up nicely for my birth, getting in my groove, ready to get a good labor pattern going and (insert bomb dropping sound) there it went! Darn it you crazy women!!!

I went to my midwife appt this morning and told her and the RN what had happened, and that they stressed me out enough to shut me down…I said I might go get a massage. My midwife says “go now, I’ll watch Penelope!” So I did, I walked across the street, got a massage for an hour and my midwife took care of my two year old! That was awesome! All the pressure points where when rubbed help augment a good labor pattern etc had little muscle knots in them…

those knots have been worked out of my body, and my mind is much clearer!

I am ready to give birth and will do so without the worry or stress, and CERTAINLY without any guilt.
👍

Thank you again everyone, God Bless!
 
My thoughts and prayers are with you. I can’t even immagine how difficult this must be for you. Thank God for this forum and our Catholic brothers and sisters, our family in Christ, that is here for all of us when we need them. I will pray for your mother and grandmother as well.

I don’t know if this will help but, I have been having some similar issues with my mother and siblings. By the grace of God, I have a very giving and fabulous pastor who I turned too when I felt like may feel. I felt like I was abandonning my family and not being very Christian by “cutting them off.” I too am expecting a child. My thoughts in my life now center around the life that I am building for the life God is building inside of me. Father’s words of wisdom were, “Love your parents, your siblings; pray for them. Set boundaries and keep them. Be consistent.” These words, a lot of prayer, therapy, and reading posts on this forum have helped me discern a little more clearly what to do and how to do it. My primary (and yours too) focus should be on our children and the support structure that we need to provide for them in order for them to grow closer to God. Whatever boundaries you need to set inorder to fulfill that focus, do not feel guilty about. Grieve for the pain of a broken relationship with your mother. Remember that Mary and her mother Ann, are with you always. In my darkest hour, I’d cry, praying to Mary and Ann to guide me and help me be the mother to my husband’s and my child that God has created me to be and Jesus is calling me to be. I’d pray that Ann would be my mother in ways I know my own will most likely never be able to fill. I also prayed that they would intervene on behalf of my own mother, who it is so difficult to witness her struggle in darkness, and is unlikely to pray for herself. It is painful. It is also so very freeing.
 
AHapka said:
As a Deputy Sheriff myself, if I was responding to the call you would not have “lost your baby.”

We respond to many domestic calls where allegations get thrown around like you wouldn’t believe. If it happened as described, and you were the sober one there, obviously not impaired, and breastfeeding no less…well, let me state that we require actual proof before even considereing such action. In short you have nothing to worry about.

And even in many such situations, we can’t take a baby/child unless it’s life is in IMMINANT danger. Otherwise, it get’s forwarded to human services (or whatever the child protective people in your area area called). Not as easy as some might think (which is why some kids stay in bad homes way too long).

Now as to why he didn’t get arrested, I don’t know? In Wisconsin, we have mandatory arrest. If I don’t arrest one of the parties (or both in the case of mutual combatants), I have to send a very good report to the DA indicating why not…in short the liability on me would be so great that I can assure you it wouldn’t happen.

But, I agree with Malia…if you never speak to her again, you won’t be doing anything wrong. You should, however, speak to the Lord about her at length.

Andy
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KC, I am so glad you posted an update, and that you have good things to report–stopping the migraine, the very kind and compassionate midwife who watched your child while you got a great massage, the deep relaxation entering your body. Good, good, good stuff!

Be confident in your judgment and decisions. The toxic people will try to make you feel guilty, and other people who don’t have to deal with toxic people will not understand at all. But you love your husband and children and yourself and you desire happiness and health for your family. You are doing the right thing. Be strong!

And best of luck to you as you tiptoe ever closer to Birth Day!
 
Prayers coming your way, KC. What an awful situation. As you know from my “toxic” post, I’m probably not in a good position to offer you good advice right now. It does seem that others have, and I pray that you take it. 🙂
 
I think the headache goes with the toxic people. They are literally pains in the neck. When you tense up, your neck muscles bunch up. That restricts blood flow to the head, and you get headaches.
Another reason to keep your distance. Go get a neck massage too.
 
This thread has prompted DH and me to start thinking about managing our problem people should either of us die suddenly or be diagnosed with a termirnal illness. Serious matter. Our problem person will need serious management in either case.

Any ideas short of a court order?
 
Sorry to hear of this. How stressful for the end of your pregnancy. It sounds like others have been there and have good advice - the only thing I can think of is to keep your family’s safety in the front of your mind while dealing with this!
 
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