Speaking out against contraceptives

[Burdock]

The bible verses in genesis about onan spilling his seed does not mean that we shouldnt use contraception. nowhere in the bible does jesus say that birth control is wrong. I agree with pricilla ann on this. I am very drawn to the catholic faith but this is a stumbling block to me, Not sure what to do.

 

[wanner47]

Prayerfully seeking God’s will is not “Jiminy Cricket theology”.

It is if your conscience is not properly formed; in that instance, you are placing your own will above God’s.

Why would God establish an earthly Church and give that Church authority if He did not mean for us to obey Her?

 

[wanner47]

The bible verses in genesis about onan spilling his seed does not mean that we shouldnt use contraception. nowhere in the bible does jesus say that birth control is wrong. I agree with pricilla ann on this. I am very drawn to the catholic faith but this is a stumbling block to me, Not sure what to do.

The Bible doesn’t say we should drive automobiles either. Are you going to stop driving your car now? According to your logic, driving a car is against God’s will since it’s not specifically condoned in the Bible.

 

[M0nkey]

Using birth control in a morally responsible manner, according to one’s conscience, is not a sin.

So, if I believe in my conscience that killing is not wrong, does the sin go away? This sounds a lot more like relativism. What is good for you is not good for me, what is good for me is not good for you…

God knows our conscience and our motives; the Catholic church does not.

True, but our own conscience may be deceived for the purpose of evil. That is why you need truth.

The Catholic teaching on contraception comes from the Bible?

The Bible has a number of moral codes and contraception is implicitly understood. In Genesis when God made Adam, did he tell him work out a way to impose population control? Or to subdue and multiply?

On this sad note, governments are using the brilliant idea of BC to exercise population control. A reality that I think is not too far from being realized in this country (USA).

A couple can seek God’s will in prayer, and act according to God’s leading.

You may be sincere in your prayers, but our propensity to sin may cause us to be sincerely wrong. Therefore, drawing ourselves away from Him, and His purpose.

Why does the Catholic Church wish to impose itself as a barrier between man and God?

No barrier. The Church has only ONE mission. That is to bring salvation to the nations through our Lord who is Christ Jesus.

I pray that you may see the way, the truth, and the light on these issues…

 

[newbetx]

The bible verses in genesis about onan spilling his seed does not mean that we shouldnt use contraception. nowhere in the bible does jesus say that birth control is wrong. I agree with pricilla ann on this. I am very drawn to the catholic faith but this is a stumbling block to me, Not sure what to do.

The Catholic teaching on contraception comes from the Bible? I certainly hope you can cite something other than the story of Onan in Genesis! That is not a relevant example as Onan simply did not want to produce offspring for his brother, who had died. That is a situation that is not relevant in our culture.

A couple can seek God’s will in prayer, and act according to God’s leading. Why does the Catholic Church wish to impose itself as a barrier between man and God?

Seems that many on CAF talk as if the story of Onan is the only place such stories of contraception are mentioned. Again, the Bible is not an FAQ. Or a “how to fix it” book. It’s more of a guide to life. It focuses upon how we are to live. However, since most just want a “shall not” list, it touches upon the negative examples, too.

Onan did do an act of contraception. If denying his brother offspring was the aim, he could have avoided sex altogether. The fact that he had sex and denied the climax of the act is significant even if you don’t want to accept it. Face it. Onan basically thumbed his nose at God in the fact that he chose not abstinence as a way to disrespect God, but contraception. Note that he was not killed because he avoided sex. He was chastised for that, though.

So I have some questions…
If a couple’s prayer to God is superior to all other teachings, then what about all those old church leaders prayers for guidance? Those guys don’t just sit around like CatBert thinking of ways to torment people. They ask for the Holy Spirit to inspire andand guide by bring understanding and clarity from God. So do the holy people that have helped form our faith have lesser value in their prayers than we have in ours?

Again, life is not a checklist of what NOT to do. To understand how to get somewhere, one needs a plan, a map or set of directions on the path and the purpose of the trip. A great explaination of how TO live is found in Theology of the Body. Read it. Think about how God designed us, what He wants for us and desires from us in return and how to live in accordance of the guiding principles. It’ll all make sense if you open your heart and listen.

Bickering details here won’t do it for you. Thinking as an anti-Catholic won’t either. Believe me, I did it for years. I needed something that covered all the bases and made sense based on my experience and understanding. TOB did. I hope it makes sense to you, too.

Peace.

 

[Burdock]

to wanner47 Actually i dont drive.

 

[Roy5]

WHICH IS THE GREATER SIN?

The Catholic position on abortion certainly is understandable, though I believe even there exceptions should be made. Take rape, for example. Or, when the life of the mother (maybe a mother of several other young children) is at stake?

 But to ban artificial birth control is just silly. Every married man or woman knows that sexual intimacy, including impulsive sex, is part of a healthy marriage. It's a beautiful expression of love as shared by two people. The Catholic Church alienated millions when it sought to make good Catholics abide by that foolish legalism.

  And, which is a greater sin? Using artificial birth control when expressing love for one another, or bringing more and more children into the world that a couple cannot afford, cannot care for adequately, cannot educate fully, etc. What if a family already has, say, five children and the income is very limited? Birth control is not abortion (except in rare instances), and it should not be denounced like abortion.

  I think what rankles lots of people is that this rule has been adopted and maintained by a celibate clergy (allegedly) who know little if anything about the dynamics of daily married life. How can you teach others to swim when you haven't swum (sp ?) yourself? This anger is further compounded by the public knowledge that many of these celibate priests aren't so celibate after all.

 

[Brendan]

**
And, which is a greater sin? Using artificial birth control when expressing love for one another, or bringing more and more children into the world that a couple cannot afford, cannot care for adequately, cannot educate fully, etc. .**

Are you saying that God is not aware of their situation? That God does not know how many kids they already have, or what their financial situation is?

Or are you saying that God was pretty much lying when He said

""Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”

 

[Brendan]

to stlucy where in the bible does it say contraception is wrong.

Where does the Bible say that it is the only source of Moral truth?

We have Christ Himself telling the Apostles, “He who hears you hears Me”

They, and their sucessors have spoken, and in it, we hear the words of Christ.

 

[wanner47]

to wanner47 Actually i dont drive.

Better not ride a bike either. Nothing about that in Scripture. Could be sinful.

Oh, and you’d better get off the computer. The Bible doesn’t condone them. Nor does it condone the Internet.

 

[Et_Cetera]

WHICH IS THE GREATER SIN?

The Catholic position on abortion certainly is understandable, though I believe even there exceptions should be made. Take rape, for example. Or, when the life of the mother (maybe a mother of several other young children) is at stake?

 But to ban artificial birth control is just silly. Every married man or woman knows that sexual intimacy, including impulsive sex, is part of a healthy marriage. It's a beautiful expression of love as shared by two people. The Catholic Church alienated millions when it sought to make good Catholics abide by that foolish legalism.

  And, which is a greater sin? Using artificial birth control when expressing love for one another, or bringing more and more children into the world that a couple cannot afford, cannot care for adequately, cannot educate fully, etc. What if a family already has, say, five children and the income is very limited? Birth control is not abortion (except in rare instances), and it should not be denounced like abortion.

  I think what rankles lots of people is that this rule has been adopted and maintained by a celibate clergy (allegedly) who know little if anything about the dynamics of daily married life. How can you teach others to swim when you haven't swum (sp ?) yourself? This anger is further compounded by the public knowledge that many of these celibate priests aren't so celibate after all.

This is a great post.

 

[wanner47]

WHICH IS THE GREATER SIN?

The Catholic position on abortion certainly is understandable, though I believe even there exceptions should be made. Take rape, for example. Or, when the life of the mother (maybe a mother of several other young children) is at stake?

 But to ban artificial birth control is just silly. Every married man or woman knows that sexual intimacy, including impulsive sex, is part of a healthy marriage. It's a beautiful expression of love as shared by two people. The Catholic Church alienated millions when it sought to make good Catholics abide by that foolish legalism.

  And, which is a greater sin? Using artificial birth control when expressing love for one another, or bringing more and more children into the world that a couple cannot afford, cannot care for adequately, cannot educate fully, etc. What if a family already has, say, five children and the income is very limited? Birth control is not abortion (except in rare instances), and it should not be denounced like abortion.

  I think what rankles lots of people is that this rule has been adopted and maintained by a celibate clergy (allegedly) who know little if anything about the dynamics of daily married life. How can you teach others to swim when you haven't swum (sp ?) yourself? This anger is further compounded by the public knowledge that many of these celibate priests aren't so celibate after all.

Roy, what is your authority to speak for God?

 

[Roy5]

BRENDAN

 Yes, I'm well-acquainted with the Sermon on the Mount, and I try to live by it. That's not always easy, as when Christ tells us to love our enemies (Taliban, Al Qaeda - ugh!). 

 There's a well-known maxim which goes "God helps those who help themselves." Do you really believe that we have no responsibility for our well-being? I knew a neighbor who was always saying that God would take care of his wife and their children. Guess what? He used that as an excuse to be lazy, and they lived in virtual poverty as a result.

  I presume one could interpret Jesus elsewhere in scripture to mean that we should give all that we have to the poor. Have you done that? I planned for my retirement. Perhaps I should have given all that away and lived on faith alone. Any reasonable person knows that such a philosophy contradicts our duty as parents, citizens, Christians.

  There's another saying - something like "he was so heaven-minded that he was no earthly good." Certainly, many, many passages in the Bible - both Old and New Testaments - urge us to live responsibly. Having more children than we can care for can be irresponsible. If done deliberately, I view it as a sin. Maybe you agree with the Mormons, that God has all these souls up in heaven eagerly waiting for bodily forms. 

  One other comment, and then I'll shut up. My grandmother was one of 14 children. They did okay. They lived on a farm in Quebec and produced nearly all their food. Her mother made most of their clothes. The children quit school at the 8th grade and went to work. But, please - how is a typical family going to support 14 children today? Maybe the Kennedys (not good models for Catholics despite the Catholic schools etc named in JFK's honor. Has there even been a more lecherous president in US history?) 

   'Nuff sed. Keep smiling.

 

[Roy5]

WANNER 47 AND SPEAKING FOR GOD

 Hm! Sorry if you thought I am a prophet or whatever. It doesn't contribute very much to a good dialogue to answer in the way that you did. I don't pretent to speak for God, but I am bold enough to presume that I can express an opinion as honestly as the next guy. How can this be a dialogue if we all have to agree?

 The idea that God says that we can't use contraception is certainly debatable. I don't find support for that position in the Bible. And, of course, even if I did the Old Testament seems to have endorsed slavery, killing those who commit adultery, and other such barbaric practices. Jesus certainly said nothing about contraception, anymore than he told us that we should (or should not) use prescription drugs, have surgery, etc. 

   Yes, I presume I should repent for thinking for myself and refusing to echo everything that comes out of the catechism. I've seen quite a few change sin my lifetime. I don't even think we have to believe in limbo anymore. And all those rules about Friday menus and fasting before communion have vanished. Frankly, I like the church to move with the times and not be stuck in the ancient or medieval world. 

  As I believe I may have said, I have been given a brain and I'm sure that God smiles when we use our brains. Perhaps if we dialogue with other brain-users I will be convinced of the errors of my rhinking. But accusing me of speaking for God is hardly the way to debate. It tends to limit the conversation.

  Keep smiling.

 

[wanner47]

WANNER 47 AND SPEAKING FOR GOD

 Hm! Sorry if you thought I am a prophet or whatever. It doesn't contribute very much to a good dialogue to answer in the way that you did. I don't pretent to speak for God, but I am bold enough to presume that I can express an opinion as honestly as the next guy. How can this be a dialogue if we all have to agree?

I don’t think that Truth is determined by majority vote, and what I’m interested in is Truth. Not your opinion, and not my opinion, but the Truth.

 The idea that God says that we can't use contraception is certainly debatable. I don't find support for that position in the Bible. And, of course, even if I did the Old Testament seems to have endorsed slavery, killing those who commit adultery, and other such barbaric practices. Jesus certainly said nothing about contraception, anymore than he told us that we should (or should not) use prescription drugs, have surgery, etc.

In your opinion. Again, I’m interested in the Truth.

   Yes, I presume I should repent for thinking for myself and refusing to echo everything that comes out of the catechism. I've seen quite a few change sin my lifetime. I don't even think we have to believe in limbo anymore. And all those rules about Friday menus and fasting before communion have vanished. Frankly, I like the church to move with the times and not be stuck in the ancient or medieval world.

And do you believe that Truth can change with the times?

  As I believe I may have said, I have been given a brain and I'm sure that God smiles when we use our brains. Perhaps if we dialogue with other brain-users I will be convinced of the errors of my rhinking. But accusing me of speaking for God is hardly the way to debate. It tends to limit the conversation.

And why should I listen to you as opposed to the Church? What claim to authority do you have?

 

[st_lucy]

WHICH IS THE GREATER SIN?

The Catholic position on abortion certainly is understandable, though I believe even there exceptions should be made. Take rape, for example. Or, when the life of the mother (maybe a mother of several other young children) is at stake?

So YOU think that a baby who is conceived through rape should be subjected to having acid spilled on him, have his arms and legs and head ripped apart or have a hole drilled into the back of his head. I mean you are right you know those of us who were conceived in this horrible fashion are really horrible and deserve to place in YOUR society. I am so glad that there are some women who don’t think that being raped is a reason to commit murder or else I know I wouldn’t be here.

 But to ban artificial birth control is just silly. Every married man or woman knows that sexual intimacy, including impulsive sex, is part of a healthy marriage. It's a beautiful expression of love as shared by two people. The Catholic Church alienated millions when it sought to make good Catholics abide by that foolish legalism.

And those of us who don’t us ABC still have a very healthy marriage. The Catholic Church which is given authority to bind on earth by our Lord cannot alienate only those who are foolish enough to think they know more than God can do that.

 And, which is a greater sin? Using artificial birth control when expressing love for one another, or bringing more and more children into the world that a couple cannot afford, cannot care for adequately, cannot educate fully, etc. What if a family already has, say, five children and the income is very limited? Birth control is not abortion (except in rare instances), and it should not be denounced like abortion.

ANd here lies the problem Do you honestly think God has NO idea of what He is doing. He will only give you what you can handle. It is a shame when man starts to think he can be like a god. Oh yeah that did happen in the garden and here we are doing it yet again.

I think what rankles lots of people is that this rule has been adopted and maintained by a celibate clergy (allegedly) who know little if anything about the dynamics of daily married life. How can you teach others to swim when you haven’t swum (sp ?) yourself? This anger is further compounded by the public knowledge that many of these celibate priests aren’t so celibate after all

These statements made here only show your immaturity and willingness to show your bigotry to what you have no clue of. Please do not mock my priest and ONE priest does not make a whole. Please try to grow up before you spew your hate.

 

[Roy5]

st lucy and spewing hate

 Gosh, gee. Lots of posters seem so defensive. If you have total faith in your position, why is it necessary to tell others to grow up and not spew hate? Hm! I wonder who is spewing hate in this situation.

  I simply don't agree with the Church when it forbids all use of artificial contraception. My position is the same as that of the overwhelming majority of American Catholics as polls show. What does annoy is that some topics are introduced here - note the topic - but if anyone dissents, wow, we get blasted. It seems that if we take issue with the Church we are immature, rebellious, and in various other ways very, very, very bad. 

  Many bishops and priests of the Church were hoping that the position on birth control would change. Let me note one story. A friend went to one priest and confessed using borth control. He was harsh and gave her quite a sermon. Then, while on vacation, she went to a priest in another city. He as much as told her not to worry about it. What do you make of that?

   Okay. I 'fess up. Perhaps I've been too influenced by democracy, or maybe I just like to think freely, or possibly I just let my mind stray too far from the dogmas, doctrines, whatever. I guess I believe that God doesn't get all that angry when we try our best to live for Him but dissent or have doubts on this or that issue. I don't even believe that we are saved by our theology or by the church. We are saved by grace through Christ Jesus our Lord. And for that I am deeply grateful.

 

[BSHoop96]

My husband and I left the Catholic Church over 10 years ago; however, Catholic teaching on contraception was not the reason we left. During the time when we were Catholic and using contraception, we did continue to receive the sacraments. (Most Catholics I knew at that time were using contraception and receiving the sacraments.)

I am sure you didn’t mean to insinuate since “everybody does it” so
why not me?

I understand how difficult this must be but one should not receive the sacraments when they know they are in direction opposition to the position of the Church on this.

 

[BSHoop96]

Wait…contraceptives are evil because:

-i can go on my period without severe pain and nausea ( am allergic to most painkillers over the counter or prescription AND alternative forms of pain-dealing methods do not work)

-it stops formation of my ovarian cysts (had to have surgery to drain it because it was causing me so much pain)

…maybe I’m missing the point.

being on bc does not automatically=indulging in wild sexual passions.

I take BC for medical reasons, not to be able to have wild passionate sex without procreation getting in the way.

I believe the teaching is that if it is being used for “birth control” it is wrong. Medical reasons are different. For instance if a woman had a medical procedure or something that **inadvertently **caused a spontaneous abortion she is not guilty of the sin of abortion. Keep in mind that you cannot “fool God” as to why you are using it.

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

I am sure you didn’t mean to insinuate since “everybody does it” so
why not me?

I understand how difficult this must be but one should not receive the sacraments when they know they are in direction opposition to the position of the Church on this.

Actually, it’s not difficult at all anymore…I had a (medically necessary) hysterectomy a few years ago!: