Species mixtures, wrong or not?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BryPGuy89
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

BryPGuy89

Guest
I was just wondering if it is technically sinful to mix species, like mules and plants. In the Bible it says not to do this. I was just wondering.
 
40.png
BryPGuy89:
I was just wondering if it is technically sinful to mix species, like mules and plants. In the Bible it says not to do this. I was just wondering.
Click to expand...
Mules…and plants? Alright… :confused: I’m seriously not understanding. Can you please explain?
The answer to your question, BTW, is almost certainly going to be no…but I’m still confused.
 
A mule and a plant? Who cares what the Church says when what science says is obvious: it ain’t gonna happen.
 
40.png
Benedictus:
A mule and a plant? Who cares what the Church says when what science says is obvious: it ain’t gonna happen.
Click to expand...
I don’t think the poster means mixing a mule with a plant. A mule is from mixed species and plants gets bred with other plants to produce hybrids.

However, I don’t understand the OP’s question. Why would something like that be sinful anyway?
 
Sorry, to clearify, would it be a sin to mix different species, like creating a mule or cross breeding plants and what not. Most crops in industrial countries are cross breeds of all kinds of species, insects and plants, animal hormones and plants, and etc… I came acroos in the OT where it says “do not mix species”. I was wondering if it would be sinfull to do it and if it would be to consume or own such things.
 
Well, the Vatican has already issued a statement on Transgenesis, placing genes from one species into another.

The statement was in regards to the moral lictiy of places human genes into pigs to assist in using pig organs in human transplants.

The Vatican came out in favor of it, with certain boundries

vatican.va/roman_curia/p…thical%20Issues

Section 3 - Experimental models
The principal model today remains transgenic pigs expressing hDAF(32) and, in some cases, other human genes inhibiting complement cascade, coupled with immunosuppression in order to achieve survival.
Click to expand...
Section 15 - Transgenesis
As we have already observed, the possibility of working out such genetic modifications, using genes of human origin as well, is morally acceptable when done in respect for the animal and for biodiversity, and with a view to bringing significant benefits to man himself. Therefore, while recognizing that transgenesis does not compromise the overall genetic identity of the mutated animal or its species, and reaffirming man’s responsibility towards the created order and towards the pursuit of improving health by means of certain types of genetic manipulation, we will now enumerate some fundamental ethical conditions which must be respected:
Click to expand...
If such artificial manipulation is licit, it would seem that regular cross breeding would also be licit, under the similar guidelines.
 
Could you refresh my memory on the verses that forbid hybrids.
 
tom.wineman said:
Could you refresh my memory on the verses that forbid hybrids.
Click to expand...

I’m trying to remember where else I saw it but for now in levitucus is says do not breed two different kinds of animals, also don’t mix your seeds in a field( not taking it as can’t grow two differnet crops on the same land at the same time, but growing a mix of two plants, lemon orange trees would be my example or wheat mixed with something) I saw it somewhere more recently in my studies, but can’t remember where.
 
Leviticus 19:19 is where you saw this, and this is more practical advise, expecially when looking at what the prohibition is paired with - the mixing of linen and wool - which shrink at differnt rates that would quickly ruin a garment in which they were mixed.
19Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
Click to expand...
In that day and age, the development of a herd was done by selecting the more productive animals and culling the others in a controlled breeding pattern to fix the desired traits and winnow out weaknesses. Seed was saved in the same way from year to year, with the constant mingling within a field resulting in most plants having an almost identical genetic makeup - and therefore a predictable yield. There is a short term payoff of mixing two lines, a concept called “hybrid vigor” - but the benefit only exists for the first generation (perhaps two) of the mixed lines. After that, the indiscriminate mixing of unrelated gene pools within a species could have disastrous results requiring generations and generations of the crop/herd to stabilize again - and possibly resulitng in wiping out the family involved. Even today, the intial exerimentation on cross-breeding genetic lines is done in small experimental plots and herd, not in a production environment.
 
40.png
Ray_Scheel:
Leviticus 19:19 is where you saw this, and this is more practical advise, expecially when looking at what the prohibition is paired with - the mixing of linen and wool - which shrink at differnt rates that would quickly ruin a garment in which they were mixed.

In that day and age, the development of a herd was done by selecting the more productive animals and culling the others in a controlled breeding pattern to fix the desired traits and winnow out weaknesses. Seed was saved in the same way from year to year, with the constant mingling within a field resulting in most plants having an almost identical genetic makeup - and therefore a predictable yield. There is a short term payoff of mixing two lines, a concept called “hybrid vigor” - but the benefit only exists for the first generation (perhaps two) of the mixed lines. After that, the indiscriminate mixing of unrelated gene pools within a species could have disastrous results requiring generations and generations of the crop/herd to stabilize again - and possibly resulitng in wiping out the family involved. Even today, the intial exerimentation on cross-breeding genetic lines is done in small experimental plots and herd, not in a production environment.
Click to expand...
I also remember it saying somewhere specifically “do not mix species” somewhere but don’t remember where, I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure.
 
40.png
BryPGuy89:
I also remember it saying somewhere specifically “do not mix species” somewhere but don’t remember where, I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure.
Click to expand...
I saw “species” when looking at some different translations of that same verse. The version I posted was KJV, the translation in the Douay-Rheims is similar. My Latin isn’t great, but I’m not seeing a “species” reference in the Vulgate either. I’m inclined to think the use of “species” is too specific to convey the original usage.
 
i think he is talking about fertilizing a human egg with an animal sperm, or fertilizing and animal egg with human sperm. the major goal of this research is to be able to produce tissue and organs in animals that have almost a zero rejection rate in recipient humans.

Bush called on Congress to ban this, which i simply cannot fathom. an animal sperm fused with a human egg is no more human than a whale or dog. human eggs and sperm separately are just another cell of the body. i think his science advisor is bill nye the science guy. any respectable scientist simply ignores what Bush has to say about science and science policy. they just created a line of pigs that have green fluorescent protein (GFP) expressed in the cells of their body. GFP excites at 500 nanometers (nm) and emits at 514nm, making it possible to trace cells of a pig used to donate tissue to a human.

the big push now is to be able to create an “almost human” embryo, that falls just short of fitting the definition of human. i.e., lacking both sex chromosomes, which cannot be human because it lacks critical information. the cells are allowed to divide and “master” cells are harvested. one X chromosome can then be re-introduced back into the cultured colonies using a viral vector and artificial bacterial chromosomes.
 
40.png
BioCatholic:
i think he is talking about fertilizing a human egg with an animal sperm, or fertilizing and animal egg with human sperm. the major goal of this research is to be able to produce tissue and organs in animals that have almost a zero rejection rate in recipient humans.
.
Click to expand...
Agreed. but as pointed out above, the Vatican does not have a problem, per se, with inserting human genes into pigs using genetic engineering to reduce the rejection rate of animal organs in humans.
 
Many hybrids occur naturally by pollen blowing in the wind or bees carrying it.
Just ask seed producers.
 
tom.wineman said:
Many hybrids occur naturally by pollen blowing in the wind or bees carrying it.
Just ask seed producers.
Click to expand...

I am aware of this, but I’m talking about like something that naturally wouldn’t happen on it’s own.
 
40.png
BioCatholic:
i think he is talking about fertilizing a human egg with an animal sperm, or fertilizing and animal egg with human sperm. the major goal of this research is to be able to produce tissue and organs in animals that have almost a zero rejection rate in recipient humans.

Bush called on Congress to ban this, which i simply cannot fathom. an animal sperm fused with a human egg is no more human than a whale or dog. human eggs and sperm separately are just another cell of the body. i think his science advisor is bill nye the science guy. any respectable scientist simply ignores what Bush has to say about science and science policy. they just created a line of pigs that have green fluorescent protein (GFP) expressed in the cells of their body. GFP excites at 500 nanometers (nm) and emits at 514nm, making it possible to trace cells of a pig used to donate tissue to a human.

the big push now is to be able to create an “almost human” embryo, that falls just short of fitting the definition of human. i.e., lacking both sex chromosomes, which cannot be human because it lacks critical information. the cells are allowed to divide and “master” cells are harvested. one X chromosome can then be re-introduced back into the cultured colonies using a viral vector and artificial bacterial chromosomes.
Click to expand...
All I have to say is that I would never allow such a thing like this to be legal if I were president either. I would rather fail in my health then have a pig/human part used to help me or something. I strongly enforce the Lords laws of not having sexual intercourse with animals, which mixing sperm with another species intercourse or artificial doesn’t matter in my mind.
 
40.png
BryPGuy89:
I am aware of this, but I’m talking about like something that naturally wouldn’t happen on it’s own.
Click to expand...
Then you are talking about something unknown to the reader or writers of the (probable) OT verses in question, which was talking about the genetic mixing that would happen naturally in a place where different flocks or seed lines within a species were reproductively mixed on a broad scale and allowed to produce offspring.

Remember too that your question is a hypothetical you are posing based on something you think you’ve seen but can’t provide a citation to beyond the one I mentioned earlier in the thread. I think you need to establish a firmer starting point before continuing to pursue the “what-ifs”.
 
40.png
Ray_Scheel:
Then you are talking about something unknown to the reader or writers of the (probable) OT verses in question, which was talking about the genetic mixing that would happen naturally in a place where different flocks or seed lines within a species were reproductively mixed on a broad scale and allowed to produce offspring.

Remember too that your question is a hypothetical you are posing based on something you think you’ve seen but can’t provide a citation to beyond the one I mentioned earlier in the thread. I think you need to establish a firmer starting point before continuing to pursue the “what-ifs”.
Click to expand...
For example mules. We all know of mules right. Donkey mixed with a horse. They would not naturally breed together but humans make them and they turn out in fertile and what not. This forced, but possible species mixing, is it wrong to bend the natural laws like this. Can it be sinful to mix completely different animals, like a kangaroo with a whale or something. Somethings just seem that they shouldn’t be mixed, but our science wants to change that.
 
I was looking for some sort of prohibition against mixing species that didn’t look like it was a practical measure against uncontrolled crossing of production gene line.

Further, it is probable that mules were accidental creations first, much as the sterile guinea/chicken cross will occasionally pop up “naturally” in mixed flocks, males are randy fellows in any species. But this bypasses the mixing of flocks issues the scripture available suggests it is intended to apply to, as a genetic cross of the “mule” variety automatically prevents damage to either of the parent gene lines.

Now, from a practical standpoint, I’ve got problems with splicing fish genes into tomato plants, too many unknows about how that’s going to play out.
 
40.png
BryPGuy89:
I was just wondering if it is technically sinful to mix species, like mules and plants. In the Bible it says not to do this. I was just wondering.
Click to expand...
er…you mean like crossing a lion and a tulip? You get a man eating plant? LOL What a little shop of horrors that would be! 😃
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top