Specific Church Teaching on Gender Transitioning?

[OraLabora]

I will pray for your child, and ask for God’s mercy. Now you use the pronoun she, which indicates female, but I’m guessing she identifies as a he?

My child was born a boy, and is transitioning to female. I am respecting her choice in this matter. It’s not easy, I mourn my little boy, but I will gain nothing by confrontation, and would have to mourn an even greater loss. So instead I choose to welcome my daughter with open arms.

It’s the only way I know how to love.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

That’s probably all you can do. It must be hard on your family.

 

[Alex337]

Odd question; but do you honestly believe there would be enough transwomen interested in all the codes of sport for this to actually happen?

Trans* folk aren’t entirely common, then you also have to ask whether this small percent of people also happen to not only like sport but be good at sport (the average cisman would not automatically out compete competitive grade ciswomen in sport; let alone if that prospective man is taking testosterone blockers and estrogen).

I suppose the other option is that you think a lot of cismen would be so keen to do well at sport that they would masquerade as transwomen? Which seems rather unlikely to me as well.

 

[redbetta]

Only a small fraction of a percent of all people who started playing sports make it to the big leagues. It really does not take a lot of trans people to outcompete biological women at that level. And, I forgot to mention this, but, in sports like boxing, a woman can get seriously injured going up against a biological man. The other way around, you would have a lot of men choosing to forfeit rather than hit a woman.

 

[Alex337]

So a small fraction of people actually do sport, of these only a small fraction of people make it to competitive fields. And of this number of people an even smaller number are trans*. I somehow don’t think womens sport is about to be swamped by trans* competitors. And when trans* folk do enter sporting leagues it’s normally only after they have been recognised as their preferred gender; which usually involves taking hormones.

I’ll happily compete against a transwoman in any sport. Even boxing. As for transmen competing against cismen; they are even more likely to be taking hormones; it wouldn’t be an unfair fight.

And it raises the question of whether we should allow people with abnormal hormone production to play sport. After all; many women produce far more testosterone than the average; surely these women would out do all others and overwhelm the sporting field?

 

[PetraG]

The problem is that for the truly transgendered, their condition is not a moral choice. Morality and ethics certainly enter into the choice of a treatment, but unfortunately we tend to conflate the two and treat the transgendered with undeserved contempt.

AFAIK the Church hasn’t really taught infallibly on this, so seeking God’s will is tainted with human fallibility. Which is why we need a Redeemer. Yes the Church has said “male and female He made them”, which is true, but corruption entered into the equation with the bite of the forbidden fruit, and sometimes not all of the body parts align (including the brain), and in fact sometimes the genes themselves don’t cooperate with various intersex genetic mosaics.

It would not matter if transgenderism were due to a personal sin; that would not lead to the Church forbidding legitimate treatment and relieve of suffering. The question is what the nature of the malady is and what means may be used to treat it. The Church does recognize that some people are born in an ambiguous position with regards to physical sex and allows treatment, which could include unambiguous assignment of a sex. Yes, it is true that there has been a great deal of debate which course is the least damaging to a child born with such a condition, because parts of the child’s condition are invisible when they are young.
There are other people, however, who are psychologically ambiguous towards their sex or psychologically at odds with their sex. The Church rejects the notion that a person’s sex is a matter that can be chosen by will to treat psychological anxiety about one’s sexual identity, with the pretense reinforced by medical treatment.
It has to be recognized that psychiatry itself has gone overboard in the past with drastic treatments like electroshock therapy. Telling someone who is sexually confused that he or she can find relief by literally changing to the more comfortable sex is injecting a falsehood into treatment. That is a violation of bioethics.

 

[PetraG]

So a small fraction of people actually do sport, of these only a small fraction of people make it to competitive fields. And of this number of people an even smaller number are trans*. I somehow don’t think womens sport is about to be swamped by trans* competitors. And when trans* folk do enter sporting leagues it’s normally only after they have been recognised as their preferred gender; which usually involves taking hormones.

I’ll happily compete against a transwoman in any sport. Even boxing. As for transmen competing against cismen; they are even more likely to be taking hormones; it wouldn’t be an unfair fight.

And it raises the question of whether we should allow people with abnormal hormone production to play sport. After all; many women produce far more testosterone than the average; surely these women would out do all others and overwhelm the sporting field?

The tennis player who competed as Renee Richards said later in life that had she (using the pronoun most often associated with this person) transitioned as a 22 year old and competed as a 24 year old, no competitor who was born and raised female could have competed with her. She thought this would indeed an unfair advantage and regretted that it would be legally protected in the future because of the legal precedents she sought and won.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I think it’s fair to say most transwomen will have physical advantages over women in most sports. The footage of Fallon Fox fighting a woman a few years back was pretty shocking.

 

[TheCatholicGryphon]

I just wanted to jump on something you said here - “The Church rejects the notion that a person’s sex is a matter that can be chosen by will to treat psychological anxiety about one’s sexual identity”. Could you show me where you found this rejection of the Church’s, if possible? I think it’d be something great to share with my brother. Thanks!

 

[Alex337]

Should we also worry about women who produce more testosterone than average dominating women’s sport? That seems just as likely based on the bonus it gives them.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I thought testing was pretty normal in sport. Besides even if men have reduced testosterone through treatment they still have physical advantages over most women.

 

[Alex337]

Not really, it’s usually only done if an intersex condition is suspected and even then they’re still allowed to compete usually. So should all women in all sport take hormone tests? And if so how much testosterone should be allowed? Just the female average or should there be more leeway?

And given the small number of sports enthusiastic transwomen do you really think all sport will be taken over? Or just some?

 

[PetraG]

I just wanted to jump on something you said here - “The Church rejects the notion that a person’s sex is a matter that can be chosen by will to treat psychological anxiety about one’s sexual identity”. Could you show me where you found this rejection of the Church’s, if possible? I think it’d be something great to share with my brother. Thanks!

That is the principle, but the Church is more than principles and more even than moral law. The Holy Father has been very clear that priests ought to reach out to members of the faithful struggling with this sort of problem on a case-by-case basis, just as he has encouraged personal pastoral care for every kind of difficulty such as this, including members of the faithful who have started a new family even though they were already validly married to another person.
This thread ought to make it abundantly clear that this is not a simple issue even in principle. It is less simple yet in practice. Even if your brother has no particular interest in pastoral care, I’d highly encourage you to seek it out yourself. The most important thing is that he know he is loved and that he is not defective even though, like all of us, he has issues that make this life a vale of tears. The rest is not unimportant, but it is necessarily secondary to that most important part of the Good News: God loves him as he is.

 

[TheCatholicGryphon]

Alright, thanks. I figured it was a self-evident principle that wouldn’t have made its way into any Church document or anything, but I had to ask.

Thanks for the advice, though. I think that’s something my brother really needs to hear: God loves him as he is. Hopefully, knowing that can one day help him to love himself as he is too.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I’m no expert (I’m pretty useless at sport ) but I thought things like the Olympics did have testing and an acceptable range. It wouldn’t surprise me if female athletes tended to be above average, many will be taller and more muscular than average.

I think there could be an element of temptation for men who would only be mediocre competing against other men but would be champions when competing against women.

Also isn’t the Iranian Women’s Soccer team mostly men?

 

[Bruised_Reed]

“The Church rejects the notion that a person’s sex is a matter that can be chosen by will to treat psychological anxiety about one’s sexual identity”. Could you show me where you found this rejection of the Church’s, if possible? I think it’d be something great to share with my brother. Thanks!

You won’t find anything like this. Not yet. Gender dysphoria is something that the secular world has only really begun to address and the Church kind of has to wait on science to for more information. For now you will find opinions and cautious advise from people associated with the Church.

I’ve observed that the most orthodox circles are the ones who are likely to advise against transitioning but without defining what transitioning means. The Church can’t get ahead of science of this but there should be an initiative to get ahead of the world on how to approach people with GD. A lot of the negativity I read on this thread and others stems from ignorance and an unwillingness to see people with GD as people, people who are in pain. And the large majority who argue stridently against it have zero idea about gender dysphoria or transitioning. That includes some Catholics with platforms that have the appearance of authority but don’t actually have any.

If you have compassion for your sibling you will go through pain too. You just will. Right now it seems like you want to tell your sibling something that will make them think that transitioning is wrong. That will make your pain go away. But it won’t make their pain go away.

I was lucky that I had done some looking into gender dysphoria and had some understanding prior to knowing that someone dear to me was transgender. Then I opened up to a close friend who then shared that their oldest child was living with GD as well. My advice would be to listen and to do your research. Not to figure out how to discourage your sibling but to understand what it is they are going through. I suggest that you read, watch videos, arm your self with information and from sources that are supportive of people who are transgender, not just those who argue against it.

Not everything is going to be being transgender or transitioning but it will if you allow it. This doesn’t feel normal to you but you can be an anchor of “normal” and a safe person to be around.

And pray. Pray for your sibling, pray that you have the right words when you talk together, when you are researching ask the God to help you understand and so you might have some wisdom to give your sibling have hope.

For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.
Jeremiah 29:11-14

 

[TheCatholicGryphon]

Thanks for this advice; it’s really helped me to put some recent thoughts about wanting everything to “go back to normal” in perspective. I just wanted to say that I’m not going to try to encourage or discourage my brother from transitioning - if he sees several different good psychiatrists and they all agree, then I’m all for it. I just sort of wish he wasn’t doing some things he is doing now.

Anyways, again, thanks for this - especially about the part how I can and need to be the anchor of normalcy and a safe person for my brother. I think I really needed to hear that. Thanks.

 

[anon65111186]

God bless you, and help you to carry that cross, I can only imagine how hard it must be. God is there in your suffering!