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Mark121359
Well-known member
Which of us on here can truly imagine just how beautiful heaven will be? Just the same, none of us can fully grasp the horrors of hell. If you can try to imagine all of the possible ways one can suffer here on earth, and then magnify that by a thousand…you may be getting real close. But then comes the kicker. It’s never-ending!
Peace, Mark ***
Peace, Mark ***
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powerofk
Guest
Hell’s main punishment is eternal separation from God. Jesus generally described Hell as both “the eternal darkness where there is wailing and grinding of teeth” and as “Gehenna, where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched”. Gehenna, of course, was an allusion to the Valley of Hinnom/Ben-Hinnom, where in the days of the Kingdoms of Israel & Judah, people used to practice human sacrifice by offering their children to Molech through burning them. During Jesus’ time, Gehenna was a waste dump where trash was burned 24/7. He’s alluding to both of these ideas when mentioning Gehenna. St. John, in the Book of Revalation, equates Hell to a volcano (burning sulfur; lake of fire; etc.). And the saints described Hell in the way that it was shown to them. In all honesty, it’s impossible to describe in pure finite human terms (and impossible for us to really understand) how either Hell or Heaven will be. Why? Because the eternal realm exists outside of time and space. So, when Jesus described Hell, he did so in allusion to something that His followers would have seen and understood; when St. John and the other saints had visions of Hell, they were given visions that corresponded to things they could make sense of.
So again, Hell is a real place, and there is always a chance of being sent there. The primary punishment is separation from God. The second punishment is constantly feeling the pain of one’s sins and the damage that they have caused. Whether there is a literal fire or simply just feeling like one is on fire from all the mortal sins on one’s soul doesn’t matter - those in Hell will curse God for their pain, yet never actually repent.
So again, Hell is a real place, and there is always a chance of being sent there. The primary punishment is separation from God. The second punishment is constantly feeling the pain of one’s sins and the damage that they have caused. Whether there is a literal fire or simply just feeling like one is on fire from all the mortal sins on one’s soul doesn’t matter - those in Hell will curse God for their pain, yet never actually repent.
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svid2
Guest
Pax Christi.
Here you are. This.
thephilosopher6, you are wrong. Take the fire and brimstone imagery very literally.
It is real, any of us could end up there, and it has every horror possible.
Pray very much.
God bless.
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svid2
Guest
Pax Christi.
This is a great link. Everybody should read it, and pray very much, every day.
God bless and have mercy on us.
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alwayswill
Guest
not exactly:
God is omnipresent:
" Or where shall I flee from your presence?
If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!"
Psalm 139
“A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, “Hell is a symbol for separation from God.” To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.”
by R.C. Sproul
Hell is the separation from the loving kindness of God.
Those is Hell are under the crushing, inescapable Holy wrath of God
“and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.”
Revelation 14:10b
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alwayswill
Guest
What Catholics Believe About Hell
beliefnet.com/faiths/2007/01/what-catholics-believe-about-hell.aspx#wM6kEhIAXwgtXdhW.99
meltzerboy
New member
I probably read it on one of the Jewish sites online, but I don’t remember where exactly. Sorry. It is not dogmatic teaching, however. In fact, very little about hell or the afterlife is chiseled in stone in Jewish teaching.Meltzer, if it isn’t too much trouble, could you possibly direct me to a source that actually speaks of such a thing?
I have a few Hindu friends that would be quite intrigued by what you just said.
meltzerboy
New member
And this raises the question, posed many times before, what kind of benevolent G-d would make this kind of punishment never-ending, even if it is inflicted upon oneself?
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powerofk
Guest
It’s never ending because the souls in Hell make it so, not because God makes it so. God doesn’t want anyone in Hell, not even Satan. But the souls in Hell refuse to repent and don’t want anything to do with God. In other words, the souls in Hell hate God. They want nothing to do with God. And even if God allowed them out of Hell, they would refuse it, because it would mean that they would be in Heaven with God, which they would absolutely refuse.
meltzerboy
New member
I know this is the usual argument, but is it reasonable that a soul in hell for such a long time would refuse to exit hell and at least try something less painful, even being with G-d? Would not such a soul have second or third thoughts on the matter given the excruciating punishment involved? Besides, this still does not fully answer the question regarding why a benevolent G-d would require such extended punishment except perhaps for the truly evil? If we have mercy toward sinners, wouldn’t G-d have infinite mercy on such a large playing field, even if they are not repentant?
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GEddie
Guest
Repentance requires collinear time, which is not available in the other life.
ICXC NIKA
ICXC NIKA
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
Why do you make an exception of for the truly evil? Why assume that those in hell would ever repent? We can compare it to the situation of those resurrected into glory (Dan 12:2), will they be able to fall away? Will they be able to once seeing and being as close and intimate to the eternal reject that and hate God? I think the answer is no otherwise salvation means little if it can be discarded. Likewise those who see God and his goodness at the final judgement and reject God have perceived his eternal glory and have rejected it. We cannot assume that our thinking in the resurrection will be subject to the whims of change like it is here on earth.
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kdbueno
Guest
Eternal judgment is scary, but if you’re sacramentally innocent, you are free to go.
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abucs
Guest
Thanks. Ii didn’t think about the visual depiction of the garbage being burned
Thanks to everyone who has contributed and for the many good answers and links.
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abucs
Guest
Hi Christina,How can I express my thoughts on this without sounding completely mental…? Okay, here goes an attempt…
We are made in the image of G-d. The Scriptures speak of those who are cast into the “fire” or into “the pit”, Hell. Consider what part of our body is “fire”. Where might that be? Are we to completely separate Hell from life; because if it is completely separated from G-d, who is Life, wouldn’t it cease to even exist? I could continue with this analogy, but would rather not without any feedback.
just a question of clarification. Am i understanding you correctly that you are proposing that if hell is a separation from God, and God is the source of life itself, then those in hell may have their existence extinguished or at the very least be reduced to a very basic form of spiritual life?
Thanks in anticipation.
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Aslan10
Guest
One thing I don’t understand is this idea of sentencing yourself. Quite frankly, in the presence of the Almighty, who here could actually stand before Him and claim they deserved heaven?
When all has been revealed before you? When he reveals the innermost parts of your soul, the sins you don’t even know about, the things you thought were good about yourself but were really evil, the evils you know did, the infinite amount of small actions that seem unworthy of judgement but are sinful nonetheless, the good things you did with the wrong motives, and the affect all these infirmities had on you and others–I think the answer is no one.
It is only by divine grace and mercy that one may be reprieved; I know that all I can do is trust in the mercy of Christ revealed in the scriptures, nothing else can save. But take heart, the mercy and love of God is infinitely greater than our sin–it is worth trusting.
When all has been revealed before you? When he reveals the innermost parts of your soul, the sins you don’t even know about, the things you thought were good about yourself but were really evil, the evils you know did, the infinite amount of small actions that seem unworthy of judgement but are sinful nonetheless, the good things you did with the wrong motives, and the affect all these infirmities had on you and others–I think the answer is no one.
It is only by divine grace and mercy that one may be reprieved; I know that all I can do is trust in the mercy of Christ revealed in the scriptures, nothing else can save. But take heart, the mercy and love of God is infinitely greater than our sin–it is worth trusting.
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Christina79
Guest
Here’s my original comment for reference:
I’m actually trying to show why I don’t think total separation from G-d is a possibility; because, in my opinion, that would mean that those in Hell would no longer have any existence at all. I think what you mentioned of being “reduced to a very basic form of spiritual life” would be an interesting topic for discussion; though it wasn’t what I had in mind with my comment.How can I express my thoughts on this without sounding completely mental…? Okay, here goes an attempt…
We are made in the image of G-d. The Scriptures speak of those who are cast into the “fire” or into “the pit”, Hell. Consider what part of our body is “fire”. Where might that be? Are we to completely separate Hell from life; because if it is completely separated from G-d, who is Life, wouldn’t it cease to even exist? I could continue with this analogy, but would rather not without any feedback.
I was attempting to analyze the possibility that Hell could exist within G-d. When we consider some of the names given to Hell, such as “the pit” or “the bottomless pit”, there is a part of the human body which comes to my mind, one of “fire”; and being “made in the image of G-d” is much more than I think many people consider it to mean. I believe that every spiritual attribute has a visible, corresponding physical attribute. I don’t know how far to go with this idea, but I’ve considered that Hell could be within the “stomach” of G-d. Like I said, maybe it sounds like craziness; but I think there is something to it.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
I have a somewhat morbid view of hell, for a couple of reasons. One is that I take the vision of Hell granted to the children at Fatima as quite real.
The other is that I’ve said ad infinitum that the night my own father died, he appeared in my bedroom. We argued and talked, but at the very end of the episode, he turned to my left with increasing alarm and fear, and then screamed in absolute fear while putting his “hands” up to ward up what was obviously coming for him.
Then he just disappeared.
As to why souls won’t repent - I suppose you only need to look at Western prisons to see that. In most cases, the inmates live in relatively benign conditions compared to what prisons are like in other places.
Some repent, and want nothing more than to get out, and stay out, including changing their behaviour. I suppose for them prison might be a form of purgatory - it leads to life changing repentance and they never go back.
But there are those who, no matter what opportunities are offered to them, make no effort to change. We’ve got a serial killer called Ivan Milat, responsible for the Backpacker murders some years ago. While he was in a very high security prison for life, he heard one of his nephews had also committed murder. He laughed.
What’s the point of letting him out?
It’s a mystery, but I think we have to assume God knows what He’s doing, even if we think it is inhuman.
He’s certainly not soft - it was over a decade ago now that we had the SE Asia Tsunami, which killed nearly 300,000 (mostly poor) people. (Good news for the poor?)
God certainly knew it was coming. Did He warn the people? Tell them to move to higher ground? Grant mercy to animals in the firing line?
Not a whit. He watched the horror unfold from beginning to end, includng the sight of thousands of decaying bodies in the aftermath, and the massive clean up that the humans had to carry out. What the insurance companies call “an act of God”.
He’s not soft. The writer of Hebrews claimed “Our God is a consuming fire…”.
Like I said, I still remember the absolute terror my own father displayed just before he disappeared into eternity. That was 37 years ago now.
The other is that I’ve said ad infinitum that the night my own father died, he appeared in my bedroom. We argued and talked, but at the very end of the episode, he turned to my left with increasing alarm and fear, and then screamed in absolute fear while putting his “hands” up to ward up what was obviously coming for him.
Then he just disappeared.
As to why souls won’t repent - I suppose you only need to look at Western prisons to see that. In most cases, the inmates live in relatively benign conditions compared to what prisons are like in other places.
Some repent, and want nothing more than to get out, and stay out, including changing their behaviour. I suppose for them prison might be a form of purgatory - it leads to life changing repentance and they never go back.
But there are those who, no matter what opportunities are offered to them, make no effort to change. We’ve got a serial killer called Ivan Milat, responsible for the Backpacker murders some years ago. While he was in a very high security prison for life, he heard one of his nephews had also committed murder. He laughed.
What’s the point of letting him out?
It’s a mystery, but I think we have to assume God knows what He’s doing, even if we think it is inhuman.
He’s certainly not soft - it was over a decade ago now that we had the SE Asia Tsunami, which killed nearly 300,000 (mostly poor) people. (Good news for the poor?)
God certainly knew it was coming. Did He warn the people? Tell them to move to higher ground? Grant mercy to animals in the firing line?
Not a whit. He watched the horror unfold from beginning to end, includng the sight of thousands of decaying bodies in the aftermath, and the massive clean up that the humans had to carry out. What the insurance companies call “an act of God”.
He’s not soft. The writer of Hebrews claimed “Our God is a consuming fire…”.
Like I said, I still remember the absolute terror my own father displayed just before he disappeared into eternity. That was 37 years ago now.
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Aslan10
Guest
Despite you describing this experience ad infinitum, I have managed to miss it. Is there a full story somewhere in another thread, just out of pure curiosity? As this is a dreadful story, I understand if it’s not something you have extensively described but just mentioned in passing.
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