speed limit

[Kathrin]

Is it a sin to drive a little bit above speed limit?
This never really has been much of an issue for me, since I don’t drive, and maybe it never really will be, but I am a bit worried about something right now.

I am going on a trip with friends/relatives next month. My friend and I are taking the train to where we will meet my aunt and her husband, and from there we’ll go by car, drive about six hours south to a campsite.
I am not that sure about the distances. Suddenly worried that when they say we’ll make it in six hours (so we’ll be there before it gets dark to pitch up the tents) they may already think that it is normal to drivce a bit above the speed limit? I am really not sure. Just worried now, especially I came up with this idea in the first place. I just have not much of an idea about the distances and about driving.

I sent my aunt and her husband a text message saying something like “a little worry from the conscientious kathrin… I hope making it in six hours doesn’t mean we’ll have to speed…”
I hope I didn’t insult them by being scrupulous.
But I want them to know that I don’t want to break the law.
Or should I not worry about it? Leave it to the driver’s responsibility?

Difficult situation now:

1. I am not sure if they even THINK of driving too fast.
2. If I tell them now I’d rather change the plans, this would compilcate things for others, e.g. the two cousins we want to quickly meet when we change from train to car, who are so looking forward to this.
3. I don’t want to insult anybody.
4. But I don’t want to break the law, I don’t want to sin. ESPECIALLY since I am so looking forward to this trip. I am afraid that if the trip was based on something sinful (or is that exaggerated?) that would make it somehow wrong.
   Kathrin

 

[Catholic90]

I just have not much of an idea about the distances and about driving.

I sent my aunt and her husband a text message saying something like “a little worry from the conscientious kathrin… I hope making it in six hours doesn’t mean we’ll have to speed…”
I hope I didn’t insult them by being scrupulous.
But I want them to know that I don’t want to break the law.
Or should I not worry about it? Leave it to the driver’s responsibility?

Difficult situation now:

1. I am not sure if they even THINK of driving too fast.
2. If I tell them now I’d rather change the plans, this would compilcate things for others, e.g. the two cousins we want to quickly meet when we change from train to car, who are so looking forward to this.
3. I don’t want to insult anybody.
4. But I don’t want to break the law, I don’t want to sin. ESPECIALLY since I am so looking forward to this trip. I am afraid that if the trip was based on something sinful (or is that exaggerated?) that would make it somehow wrong.
   Kathrin

Since YOU don’t drive, YOU would not be breaking any laws!
I say leave the driving to those who drive! It is the driver’s responsibility. I would assume s/he knows how to drive and is able to calculate the distance and time. Never, EVER, be a backseat driver and give unsolicited advice on how you think a driver is going too fast, too slow, etc. Ever. Ever. Eeeeever.

IMO, going a few miles over the limit is OK (ie 60 in a 55 or 70 in a 65). My 2 sons have had driver’s education recently, and both of the instructors (2 different people) told my kids to “drive the limit, but if the flow of traffic is slightly higher, go with the flow of traffic.” In other words, if everyone else is driving 60 in a 55 mph zone, go 60. Otherwise, the slower drivers run the risk of getting rear-ended.

 

[Nick_in_MB]

I’ve had cops actually tell me to go with the flow, even if the cars around you are going faster than the speed limit. In that situation, going the speed limit while the majority of the cars are passing you can get you pulled over, not for speeding, but for being a safety hazard to the other cars. Like how a person doing 25 in a 65 will get pulled over for the same reason.

I’ve also heard that some cars, the speedometer is off slightly, and that you’re actually driving a few miles slower than it reads. Don’t know how true it is, I actually just heard that today.

 

[passus]

Driving over speed limit a mortal sin?
Is speeding a sin?

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0104qq.asp

Q: I admit it: I drive fast, since I hate wasting time in traffic and I have a long commute. Someone told me speeding is a mortal sin. Huh? Isn’t the speed limit a law of man and not of God?

A: Yes, but breaking the speed limit *can *be a mortal sin if it threatens harm to you or anyone else. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says, “The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air” (CCC 2290).

 

[lobster]

Is it a sin to drive a little bit above speed limit?

Yes. We are to obey lawful authority. If that lawful authority deemed it permissible to drive sixty miles per hour on a certain stretch, it would post a sixty mile per hour speed limit. To drive sixty milers per hour when it deems it permissible to only drive fifty-five miles per hour is wanton disregard for authority and is disobedience. It is disobedience that makes it wrong. It is not wrong because driving sixty on that particular stretch is intrinsically evil.

Difficult situation now:

1. I am not sure if they even THINK of driving too fast.

You should charitable inform them that it is a sin to speed. You are responsible for bringing this to their attention if they are ignorant of a matter concerning sin.

1. If I tell them now I’d rather change the plans, this would compilcate things for others, e.g. the two cousins we want to quickly meet when we change from train to car, who are so looking forward to this.

To the extent that it is within your control, you do not want to be complicit with someone elses sin.

 

[lobster]

I’ve had cops actually tell me to go with the flow, even if the cars around you are going faster than the speed limit. In that situation, going the speed limit while the majority of the cars are passing you can get you pulled over, not for speeding, but for being a safety hazard to the other cars. Like how a person doing 25 in a 65 will get pulled over for the same reason.

I’ve also heard that some cars, the speedometer is off slightly, and that you’re actually driving a few miles slower than it reads. Don’t know how true it is, I actually just heard that today.

You cannot be fined for driving the speed limit and such a ticket would be contestable in traffic court. It is not within an officers authority to tell someone to disobey the law and drive over the speed limit to “go with the flow”. This is the same as “everyone’s doing it, therefore i’m doing it too”. Many interstates have minimum speed limits where indeed it would be as much a sin to drive over the maximum as well as under the minimum speed limit.

 

[Nick_in_MB]

You’re not pulled over for speeding.
Never said it wasn’t contestable in court either.
But it doesn’t mean the officer can’t pull you over regardless. And have you show up in court to contest it.

law.justia.com/georgia/codes/40/40-6-184.html

40-6-184.
(a)(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation.
(2) On roads, streets, or highways with two or more lanes allowing for movement in the same direction, no person shall continue to operate a motor vehicle in the most left-hand lane at less than the maximum lawful speed limit once such person knows or should reasonably know that he is being overtaken in such lane from the rear by a motor vehicle traveling at a higher rate of speed, except when such motor vehicle is preparing for a left turn.
(b) Whenever the commissioner of public safety or the commissioner of transportation or local authorities determine on the basis of any engineering and traffic investigation that slow speeds on any part of a road under their respective jurisdictions impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, such commissioners jointly, or such local authorities, may determine and declare a minimum speed limit below which no person shall drive a vehicle except when necessary for safe operation, and that limit shall be effective when posted upon fixed or variable signs.

scstatehouse.gov/code/t56c005.htm

SECTION 56-5-2920. Reckless driving; penalties; suspension of driver’s license for second or subsequent offense.
Any person who drives any vehicle in such a manner as to indicate either a wilful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of reckless driving. The Department of Motor Vehicles, upon receiving satisfactory evidence of the conviction, of the entry of a plea of guilty or the forfeiture of bail of any person charged with a second and subsequent offense for the violation of this section shall forthwith suspend the driver’s license of any such person for a period of three months. Only those offenses which occurred within a period of five years including and immediately preceding the date of the last offense shall constitute prior offenses within the meaning of this section. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall, upon conviction, entry of a plea of guilty or forfeiture of bail, be punished by a fine of not less than twenty-five dollars nor more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days.

SECTION 56-5-1560. Minimum speed limits.
(a) Impeding traffic by slow speed prohibited. --No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

That’s where they get their reasoning from.
Sure, it’s contestable. You can still get pulled over and receive a ticket though.

 

[Catholic90]

Yes. We are to obey lawful authority.** If that lawful authority deemed it permissible to drive sixty miles per hour on a certain stretch, it would post a sixty mile per hour speed limit.** To drive sixty milers per hour when it deems it permissible to only drive fifty-five miles per hour is wanton disregard for authority and is disobedience. It is disobedience that makes it wrong. It is not wrong because driving sixty on that particular stretch is intrinsically evil.

Not always. Sometimes it is posted what it is posted to get federal funds. Remember Carter’s push to have everything 55? That was a fuel savings, NOT a safety standard.

You should charitable inform them that it is a sin to speed. If they are giving her a ride, she should NEVER be a backseat driver and give the driver advice. That is the quickest way to find herself sitting at the edge of the highway waiting for a nice person to pick her up, or at the very least, a sure way to ensure she will never be offered a ride with them again! You are responsible for bringing this to their attention if they are ignorant of a matter concerning sin. Slight speeding is not a sin. Keeping with the flow of traffic is not a sin.
To the extent that it is within your control, you do not want to be complicit with someone elses sin.

 

[Catholic90]

You cannot be fined for driving the speed limit and such a ticket would be contestable in traffic court. It is not within an officers authority to tell someone to disobey the law and drive over the speed limit to “go with the flow”. This is the same as “everyone’s doing it, therefore i’m doing it too”. Many interstates have minimum speed limits where indeed it would be as much a sin to drive over the maximum as well as under the minimum speed limit.

Lobster, if you choose to go the speed limit while everyone else is going faster, PLEASE stay in the far right lane. Do not feel it is your right or responsibility to putter along in the left or center lane trying to force everyone else to slow down to the limit!

It is very hazardous when the flow of traffic is 60 mph on the 55 posted, and suddenly all brake lights go on because somebody is going 50 to 55 in the left or center lane, forcing everyone else to brake and go around. That, IMO, is very inconsiderate.

 

[Nick_in_MB]

Many interstates have minimum speed limits where indeed it would be as much a sin to drive over the maximum as well as under the minimum speed limit.

Not as many as you’d think. Around here, there’s only one, and it’s not the fastest freeway around either.
And that’s where, if you’re doing 55 in a 65, and just say the flow of traffic is doing the speed limit… You’re doing nothing wrong, you’re within the speed limit, there’s no minimum posted, you’re just being careful. You’ll get pulled over though for going slower, especially if you’re not in the right lane.

 

[lobster]

You’re not pulled over for speeding.
Never said it wasn’t contestable in court either.
But it doesn’t mean the officer can’t pull you over regardless. And have you show up in court to contest it.

law.justia.com/georgia/codes/40/40-6-184.html

scstatehouse.gov/code/t56c005.htm

That’s where they get their reasoning from.
Sure, it’s contestable. You can still get pulled over and receive a ticket though.

None of those references however indicate that one may exceed the maximum speed limit in any case. For example, it is noted that one may not drive in the left most lane at a slower speed than the maximum when being approached from behind by a vehicle traveling at a faster speed (than your speed which is lower than the maximum).

 

[lobster]

Not always. Sometimes it is posted what it is posted to get federal funds. Remember Carter’s push to have everything 55? That was a fuel savings, NOT a safety standard.

It does not matter though, because lawful authority has stated what is the permissible speed to drive at. It doesn’t matter what their reasons are (safety, funding, maybe they just think 55 is a nice round number, or whatever) it is within their authority to post a limit and we are to obey lawful authority, otherwise it is a sin.

Lobster, if you choose to go the speed limit while everyone else is going faster, PLEASE stay in the far right lane. Do not feel it is your right or responsibility to putter along in the left or center lane trying to force everyone else to slow down to the limit!

It is very hazardous when the flow of traffic is 60 mph on the 55 posted, and suddenly all brake lights go on because somebody is going 50 to 55 in the left or center lane, forcing everyone else to brake and go around. That, IMO, is very inconsiderate.

Does this mean if the flow of traffic was 120 miles per hour, everyone can go that fast? If you are going 60 and get hit from behind by someone going 120, that is the same as two cars crashing head on going 30 miles per hour apiece.
Let’s say the average speed is about 85 (I have been in this situation) and the limit is 65. Am I morally obligated to break the law by disobedience in order to keep from holding up the flow of traffic of those who disregard lawful authority?

 

[Kathrin]

Hello you all,
I thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut on this.

I got a reply on my text message. My aunt’s husband (who will do the driving mostly, I think) wrote back not to worry, that it was so-and-so many kilometers and we should make it in 5 hours without having to hurry.

5 is even better than 6. Gives us some leeway.

I wrote them back saying that it was typical of me to worry about something instead of just looking forward to the trip, which I do!!! . It is also typical of me to find something to feel guilty about exactly WHEN/because I am really happy about something.

So I was very relieved to get this message back.

Ok, now my scrupulous brain is a teeny bit at it again, thinking: “What if not hurrying for them still means a tiny bit above speed limit?” I don’t really think so, but what if? Asking them again would almost be (name removed by moderator)olite though, somehow…
And I didn’t write anything about sin, I didn’t use that word, should I have?

My reasonable part actually says it is ok to let it go now, but maybe not? Maybe I didn’t make it clear enough? Am I silly to worry about this? Is this overscrupulous now?

Kathrin

 

[baltobetsy]

Let’s say the average speed is about 85 (I have been in this situation) and the limit is 65. Am I morally obligated to break the law by disobedience in order to keep from holding up the flow of traffic of those who disregard lawful authority?

Yes, because your concern for human life and the safety of your fellow drivers should override your concern for obeying a possibly arbitrary law. Driving 20 miles below the flow of traffic is dangerous to you, your passengers and other drivers.

Betsy

 

[wjp984]

I have heard that driving above the speed of 75ish means your chances of survival go way down if anything goes wrong with the car. So if everyone is driving 85 then that does not mean you have to also drive 85 and potentially endanger the life of yourself or others.

Granted, as soon as this ticket goes off my record in another year I will once again be tempted to drive 85, 90 or even 95 at times when I drive alone since the slight risk seems worth it to me. For now, I can’t afford to have my insurance go up so I keep my speed within 5-15miles over the speed limit depending on what I know cops will pull one over for in the area.

However, when I have passengers in the car I almost always keep my speed below 80 out of concern for their safety. .

The point is I do not think it is morally wrong to speed; I do think it is morally wrong to endanger the lives of others with excessive speed.

As a side note: for those of you who think that if there is no one on the road, then who cares how fast you drive, you are forgetting about the numerous animals that cross the highways. After going 90+ I narrowly missed 3 deer swerving right, left, and then right again and it was one of the scarriest experiences of mylife. If I were going the speed limit I probably would have saw the deer sooner and had more time to react and not almost potentially get myself and a passenger killed. I have also hit a deer once going the speed limit at 65 and it nearly totaled my car. I can’t imagine what going 95 would have done.

 

[srlucado]

Is it a sin to drive a little bit above speed limit?
This never really has been much of an issue for me, since I don’t drive, and maybe it never really will be, but I am a bit worried about something right now.

I am going on a trip with friends/relatives next month. My friend and I are taking the train to where we will meet my aunt and her husband, and from there we’ll go by car, drive about six hours south to a campsite.
I am not that sure about the distances. Suddenly worried that when they say we’ll make it in six hours (so we’ll be there before it gets dark to pitch up the tents) they may already think that it is normal to drivce a bit above the speed limit? I am really not sure. Just worried now, especially I came up with this idea in the first place. I just have not much of an idea about the distances and about driving.

I sent my aunt and her husband a text message saying something like “a little worry from the conscientious kathrin… I hope making it in six hours doesn’t mean we’ll have to speed…”
I hope I didn’t insult them by being scrupulous.
But I want them to know that I don’t want to break the law.
Or should I not worry about it? Leave it to the driver’s responsibility?

Difficult situation now:

1. I am not sure if they even THINK of driving too fast.
2. If I tell them now I’d rather change the plans, this would compilcate things for others, e.g. the two cousins we want to quickly meet when we change from train to car, who are so looking forward to this.
3. I don’t want to insult anybody.
4. But I don’t want to break the law, I don’t want to sin. ESPECIALLY since I am so looking forward to this trip. I am afraid that if the trip was based on something sinful (or is that exaggerated?) that would make it somehow wrong.
   Kathrin

I don’t know about Switzerland, but here in Texas, driving too fast may be a sin that you’ll have to explain to St. Peter some day in the future–but driving too slow, especially in the left lane, is an action you may get to explain to St. Peter right away.

(If you know what I mean.)

 

[Kathrin]

I guess my general question is, as a passenger, how much responsibility do I take? Not just about speed, but about other issues as well.

The people with the car don’t live in Switzerland. So my friend and I who are going on the trip with them first have to take the train to get there to meet them up - for that reason for example I don’t really have much control over whether the car meets all the regulations etc. Now how much responsibility do I take?

For example, I have read that in the country where we’re going you have to have warning vests for every passenger in the car. I am pretty sure they don’t have four but only two. And that you have to have a set of spare lightbulbs with you. I am not sure if they have that. Is it my responsibility to make sure they do, or not? What if they say they don’t care, do I have to go buy that stuff from Switzerland and carry it on the train? From a moral point of view, I mean.
Or if it turns out they lack the right kind of insurance card and it is too late to get it - and they decide to go on the ride anway because they think nobody will ask for it at the border. If I knew they mey be lacking a document that they should have, would it be a sin for me to ride with them??? Or am I getting too scrupulous again here??

(Because of course telling everybody no I am not sriving with them would ruin THEIR vacation… they wouldn’t go without me.)

What I did yesterday I sent them another text message saying there may be special regulations about cars and maybe they should look at them online, e.g. I mentioned the insurance card.
I got a message back saying thank you and that they will contact the auto club today and ask.
Did I do enough? Or do I have to now make sure they do it all right? Or can I leave the responsibility to them to have all the right documents and things, since it is their car and I am only riding with them?

Kathrin

 

[baltobetsy]

Did I do enough? Or do I have to now make sure they do it all right? Or can I leave the responsibility to them to have all the right documents and things, since it is their car and I am only riding with them?

You did it just right. They are adults and responsible for their own behavior. Passengers don’t bear the same responsibility as drivers.

Enjoy your vacation and stop worrying!!!

Betsy