Spericualtily vs MGTOW

[rainereli_rod]

I’m 27 male. I make a decent amount of money more than enough to keep a family.As many males of my age I desire to get marry but I have the impression that women this days are a mess. They doesn’t want commit but at the same time they want own house, car, welfare but to keep complete freedom and women are so so so picky and demanding, and give so little on return. No one (at least in my area) want a decent traditional marriage.

And i soon i discover the MGTOW and since my involvement with that movement marriage and women are getting more irrelevant to me every day ( i almost doesn’t care) , my Psyche towards women is changing because i strangely feel free. I dont know if my spiritually is suffering with that set of ideas.

Has any one goes through this type of feelings or situations ? What are your thoughts from the catholic from of view ? What the church doctrine teach of this situations ?

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Google tells me that MGTOW is “Men Going Their Own Way.” I am guessing that “Spericualtily” is Spirituality.

You seem to have a very negative idea of women. Not all women are a particular way, not any more than all men are.

 

[rainereli_rod]

Thanks for your reply brother.

I can admit that I initially have negative bias. But at this moments not necessary. I dont hate women. I love my mother and my sister and i dont have nothing against women ( as a person)

It just that that concept/idea of me getting in love, going to ask hand , meet her parents. That whole traditional thing. It just too stressful, difficult and time consuming that for me they doesn’t matter any more, those ideas stops beings relevant in my daily life, and to be honest feels good.

I think young men specially catholic ones, have a concept or idea of a women that draw a halo around thier heads but they are flaw full beings like any one else. These days for me that halo has gone and my interest into get a family with a women have gone too. i dont want a sentimental relationship i just dont. I dont want marriage anymore.

But i want to keep my catholic faith … strong, I don’t involve into sexual relationships I want t keep my chastity, honor. And I assist to mass weekly , I observe faithfully the catholic doctrine.

But i want to know if this path can lead me to mortal sin ? I would really appreciate if any other catholic man have experienced those type of feelings or lack of it ?

 

[AdamP88]

I’m 27 male. I make a decent amount of money more than enough to keep a family.As many males of my age I desire to get marry but** I have the impression that women this days are a mess. They doesn’t want commit but at the same time they want own house, car, welfare but to keep complete freedom and women are so so so picky and demanding, and give so little on return. No one (at least in my area) want a decent traditional marriage.**

And i soon i discover the MGTOW and since my involvement with that movement marriage and women are getting more irrelevant to me every day ( i almost doesn’t care) , my Psyche towards women is changing because i strangely feel free. I dont know if my spiritually is suffering with that set of ideas.

Has any one goes through this type of feelings or situations ? What are your thoughts from the catholic from of view ? What the church doctrine teach of this situations ?

The part in bold drew my attention.
I’m sure some women are like this. But so are many men. Commitment is a problem for both sexes these days. If you say you don’t care to commit then you are, in a way, adding yourself to the pool of people that are avoiding commitment. Becoming part of the problem rather than the solution.

According to what I’ve seen, the MGTOW movement is not really compatible with Catholicism.

For a start, it views women as inherently bad or dishonest. This is often due to the fact that many adherents of MGTOW have been jilted by wives or exes, so it’s coming from a lens of bitterness. It also tends to downgrade the sacrament of matrimony.
It is also often associated with the idea of “game”. Basically that you can pick up women, use them for sex and then move on to the next conquest. And it’s extremely individualistic. You might not want to marry, but the MGTOW movement would have you believe that marriage is the bane of any man’s life and that you should stay single to maximise your own happiness.

All in all, not particularly catholic.

 

[St_Francis]

Anything which fosters evils such as bitterness, anger, envy, Indifference towards others, selfishness, and the like can’t be good!

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

I don’t know the movement concerned. Personally, I don’t package deal and I demand everybody take me as a unique mix speaking for myself. That way, I speak for everybody else that is a one-off as well.

You have asked several questions at once (without enumerating them), which is either careless or insincere.

I’m factoring out the GMOTW aspect of it.

You are single and you can get married - for the first time - at 40, 60, or 80. (I haven’t reached the 80 mark yet!)

God and the Church ask that you serve to strengthen the ministry of other lay people, whether you are married or single.

Scriptures are full of the values you are called to exhibit by Holy Spirit filled power.

In a society in something far worse than free fall - even the atom was split long ago - it’s facile to come to blanket conclusions about you and women.

It does take unusual hard work to get guidance about the lay ministry because the ingrained “catholic” culture says that this is not required. But serving at Mass (something I’ve never done) has got to be a great start so don’t knock it!

Jesus’ parables and much of the Old Testament say lots about potentising each others’ gifts.

 

[Gilly_flower]

I’m 27 male. I make a decent amount of money more than enough to keep a family.As many males of my age I desire to get marry but I have the impression that women this days are a mess. They doesn’t want commit but at the same time they want own house, car, welfare but to keep complete freedom and women are so so so picky and demanding, and give so little on return. No one (at least in my area) want a decent traditional marriage.

And i soon i discover the MGTOW and since my involvement with that movement marriage and women are getting more irrelevant to me every day ( i almost doesn’t care) , my Psyche towards women is changing because i strangely feel free. I dont know if my spiritually is suffering with that set of ideas.

Has any one goes through this type of feelings or situations ? What are your thoughts from the catholic from of view ? What the church doctrine teach of this situations ?

This all sounds immensely immature…

 

[Lea101]

I’m waiting for a specific someone to post something about how you are doing amazing but let me just say my own opinion.

It’s full of hypocrites. Angry men whining about women and how inherently awful they are (hyperbole obviously) and then whining about feminists labelling men as rapists and the like.

It’s easy to hate women, just like how easy it is to hate men (especially recently for me. A friend of mine was sexually assaulted)

Men have many flaws too but I hope you know that (i mean almost all of the women desiring to get married will say that men want sex but will run away from commitment). Groups like this tend to place themselves on a pedestal.

Aaanyway, to answer your question, yes it is against catholic teachings. MGTOW and similar groups, including the female equivalent, is a breeding ground for hostility. It affects your relationship with others, and in some cases, change the way you view the particular group of people. It is enabling the old war against the sexes. Not worth it.

I would advise you to maybe look into your definition of a traditional marriage. What people say here vs red pill forums are SO different. What you think is a traditional marriage could be an incredibly degrading arrangement for any woman that respects herself.

 

[Sarcelle]

I had a priest tell me that holding bitterness towards others is like taking poison and hoping the object of your bitterness dies.

As for getting married, well it’s up to you. No one has to get married.

You said you assist at mass. Do you know any priests or layman who could counsel you on your thoughts? They may be able to help you. Another man’s perspective would be able to give you more food for thought.

 

[Xantippe]

I’m 27 male. I make a decent amount of money more than enough to keep a family.As many males of my age I desire to get marry but I have the impression that women this days are a mess. They doesn’t want commit but at the same time they want own house, car, welfare but to keep complete freedom and women are so so so picky and demanding, and give so little on return. No one (at least in my area) want a decent traditional marriage.

And i soon i discover the MGTOW and since my involvement with that movement marriage and women are getting more irrelevant to me every day ( i almost doesn’t care) , my Psyche towards women is changing because i strangely feel free. I dont know if my spiritually is suffering with that set of ideas.

Has any one goes through this type of feelings or situations ? What are your thoughts from the catholic from of view ? What the church doctrine teach of this situations ?

I have some good news for you–you don’t have to marry “women today”–just one at most.

However–I do have some bad news. Women have always been “picky and demanding.” But there is a positive side to that–women being picky and demanding is why we don’t live in caves anymore. Women have traditionally been in charge of making sure that the family is fed, clothed, and comfortably housed–so we tend to think harder about making sure that the family has that stuff. Hence women being “materialistic.” It’s a feature, not a bug. (Do you remember good Mrs. Beaver from The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe? She cares about material things because it’s how she cares for her husband and the children.) If you look around, you’ll notice that good, conscientious men are often very particular about their tools. I bet, for example, that you care a lot about the tools that you use for your job.

Of course, it’s possible to take caring about material things too far, but material objects are how women care for their families. There are diminishing returns, but to a certain extent, the better the tools, the better job we can do caring for our families. (For example, a woman with a stroller can walk further and carry more stuff than a woman without a stroller and a woman with a car can go even further and transport even more children and stuff.)

By the way, how much “welfare” is there in Nicaragua?

 

[Xantippe]

I would advise you to maybe look into your definition of a traditional marriage. What people say here vs red pill forums are SO different. What you think is a traditional marriage could be an incredibly degrading arrangement for any woman that respects herself.

Yes. When these groups say “traditional marriage” they tend to mean “having a free maid/sex toy with no needs of her own”–of course they are terribly disappointed that real women aren’t like that. But women have never been like that.

 

[rainereli_rod]

Yes. When these groups say “traditional marriage” they tend to mean “having a free maid/sex toy with no needs of her own”–of course they are terribly disappointed that real women aren’t like that. But women have never been like that.

God Forbids. I would never think of a woman on the “main/sex” terms. Dont view the necessity or a sentimental relationship/bond any more doesn’t mean that I’ll look down on women neither do I hate them.

Yes i would prefer an stay at home mother (at least for the first years of the children grow) , Yes i expect she take care of the home. When in terms of Traditionally respect. I refer to the roles and responsibilities written on the Catholic Catechism. I like traditional gender roles.

 

[Xantippe]

God Forbids. I would never think of a woman on the “main/sex” terms. Dont view the necessity or a sentimental relationship/bond any more doesn’t mean that I’ll look down on women neither do I hate them.

Yes i would prefer an stay at home mother (at least for the first years of the children grow) , Yes i expect she take care of the home. When in terms of Traditionally respect. I refer to the roles and responsibilities written on the Catholic Catechism. I like traditional gender roles.

Well, here’s the problem–if the wife is to be a stay-at-home-mother, she will have material needs. And even if she isn’t, the kids will still have material needs–and the more kids, the more needs.

One of the big problems with MGTOW is that MGTOWers are unwilling to accept the reality of those material needs.

 

[Blood_Angel]

I understand what you’re saying, it’s one of the biggest problems we face in this day and age of liberal social responsibility. Many women do not want to settle down, or they want to sleep with as many guys as they can before they settle down, in which case they’re damaged goods. Feminism has told women they must be this way.

The good thing about Trump’s victory is that it shows that there is a sort of revival of conservative values happening in not just USA but the West in general. I think it’s coming to a point where conservatism is counter-cultural and young people like to be counter-cultural, perhaps their is hope for the coming generation to forget that liberal values which hippie babyboomers made mainstream?

My problem with MGTOW is that it’s just male feminism, both are destructive.i

 

[rainereli_rod]

Well, here’s the problem–if the wife is to be a stay-at-home-mother, she will have material needs. And even if she isn’t, the kids will still have material needs–and the more kids, the more needs.

One of the big problems with MGTOW is that MGTOWers are unwilling to accept the reality of those material needs.

I actually paying a piece of land and i trying to build a decent house on that land. But the idea of marriage is becomming less and less attractive/urgent, I starting to learning music ( I play the guitar ) And in God’s Will I probably starting to learning some wood-crafting. Since i give up most of the Ideas of commitment i feel free to pursuit some of my own dreams

 

[Xantippe]

I actually paying a piece of land and i trying to build a decent house on that land. But want dont want any more, I starting to learning music ( I play the guitar ) And in God’s Will I probably starting to learning some wood-crafting. Since i give up most of the Ideas of commitment i feel free to pursuit some of my own dreams

That’s great–but if you had a family of your own, you would have to deal with their needs. Meanwhile, the core of MGTOW is being unwilling to deal with other people’s needs.

 

[pianistclare]

I had a priest tell me that holding bitterness towards others is like taking poison and hoping the object of your bitterness dies.

As for getting married, well it’s up to you. No one has to get married.

You said you assist at mass. Do you know any priests or layman who could counsel you on your thoughts? They may be able to help you. Another man’s perspective would be able to give you more food for thought.

This^^^

 

[rainereli_rod]

Meanwhile, the core of MGTOW is being unwilling to deal with other people’s needs.

I must degrees with that. I take care of my family sure (because is my way payback to them when they took care of me). But I can do things with the rest of the resources. I can build wherever and i want to , When and If I want to. Spend my time in wherever thing that bring me satisfaction, Expand my knowledge on other areas.

That is for me the core idea of the movement “do your own way”. Grow as a person without let the idea of marriage or provide hold you. My concern is that sound very selfish and pride is an horrible and insidious sin on which i do not want to fall. That was my original purpose of the post , know other points of view all inside the scope of the Catholic doctrine. Not diminish women. Yes my experience trying to date and meet people wasn’t nice AT ALL it was so stressful and soul crushing. But i do not have to through that any more if i do not want to.I do not feel motivated to do that.

 

[Xantippe]

I must degrees with that. I take care of my family sure (because is my way payback to them when they took care of me). But I can do things with the rest of the resources. I can build wherever and i want to , When and If I want to. Spend my time in wherever thing that bring me satisfaction, Expand my knowledge on other areas.

That is for me the core idea of the movement “do your own way”. Grow as a person without let the idea of marriage or provide hold you. My concern is that sound very selfish and pride is an horrible and insidious sin on which i do not want to fall. That was my original purpose of the post , know other points of view all inside the scope of the Catholic doctrine. Not diminish women

You should probably talk to your confessor.

It is probably worth noting that you yourself fear that MGTOW may be selfish and prideful.

 

[St_Francis]

I actually paying a piece of land and i trying to build a decent house on that land. But the idea of marriage is becomming less and less attractive/urgent, I starting to learning music ( I play the guitar ) And in God’s Will I probably starting to learning some wood-crafting. Since i give up most of the Ideas of commitment i feel free to pursuit some of my own dreams

I must degrees with that. I take care of my family sure (because is my way payback to them when they took care of me). But I can do things with the rest of the resources. I can build wherever and i want to , When and If I want to. Spend my time in wherever thing that bring me satisfaction, Expand my knowledge on other areas.

That is for me the core idea of the movement “do your own way”. Grow as a person without let the idea of marriage or provide hold you. My concern is that sound very selfish and pride is an horrible and insidious sin on which i do not want to fall. That was my original purpose of the post , know other points of view all inside the scope of the Catholic doctrine. Not diminish women. Yes my experience trying to date and meet people wasn’t nice AT ALL it was so stressful and soul crushing. But i do not have to through that any more if i do not want to.I do not feel motivated to do that.

I think that people, especially young people, can get so wrapped up in the idea of Getting Married that all they do is try to meet and date people, and that too is out of balance. The right person will come along when God thinks it is the right time, and all that pushing will not move things along faster.

There are things people can do instead to prepare for marriage, things like what you are doing: maintaining your faith and working of growing in holiness, buying some land with the plan of building a house, having interests in things you enjoy. It sounds like the actions you are taking would actually help you to be a better husband!

Perhaps you needed the MGTOW movement to pull you away from moving to one extreme, but if you stay with them, you will move too far towards the other extreme and you feel that subconsciously.

These are speculations to some extent because obviously I know only what you have written here, but that is my reaction to what you have written.