Sperm Count

[LighthouseRon]

A few years ago when my wife and I were trying to get pregnant, My doctor ordered a sperm count for me through masturbation. I now know that was sinful, but at the time I inncorrectly assumed it was okay because it was for the medical purpose of my aiding our fertility. Was that a mortal sin?

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

LighthouseRon:

A few years ago when my wife and I were trying to get pregnant, My doctor ordered a sperm count for me through masturbation. I now know that was sinful, but at the time I inncorrectly assumed it was okay because it was for the medical purpose of my aiding our fertility. Was that a mortal sin?

The requirements for a mortal sin are serious matter, full knowledge and free consent. It appears that you may not have had full knowledge, so probably it was not mortal sin.

But why worry about it? You’ve already told us here, go to Confession and tell it. Then, no matter whether it was mortal or not, it will be gone.

 

[Shiann]

LighthouseRon:

A few years ago when my wife and I were trying to get pregnant, My doctor ordered a sperm count for me through masturbation. I now know that was sinful, but at the time I inncorrectly assumed it was okay because it was for the medical purpose of my aiding our fertility. Was that a mortal sin?

For a mortal sin to have occured three things must be true at the time of the sin:

You have full will to do that thing.
It is a grave matter (it is a mortal sin.)
And you have** full knowledge** of it being a grave sin.

Since the last was missing in this case, you may not be culpable of a grave sin. But I would confess anyway.

 

[ames61]

The posts above are right, in that it wouldn’t have been a mortal sin for you, since you weren’t aware of the graveness of the sin at the time. For future reference, I believe Catholic physicians will have patients use a perforated condom to collect a sample during the marital act. This procedure is considered to be acceptable morally.

 

[Katie1723]

We all know that “masturbation” is a sin. But really, you were doing it for medical purposes, not for “fun” ! Goodness, don’t be so hard on yourself! There are far worse things for you to worry about than having a medical test done!
~ Kathy ~

 

[marty1818]

Katie1723:

We all know that “masturbation” is a sin. But really, you were doing it for medical purposes, not for “fun” ! Goodness, don’t be so hard on yourself! There are far worse things for you to worry about than having a medical test done!

                    ~ Kathy ~

You cannot use a sinful act(masturbation) to achieve one that is good(medical test). However, Lighthouse Ron, if you did not know that it was a serious sin then it wouldn’t be a mortal sin. You should still confess it next time you go to confession.

matthew

 

[Katie1723]

marty1818:

You cannot use a sinful act(masturbation) to achieve one that is good(medical test). However, Lighthouse Ron, if you did not know that it was a serious sin then it wouldn’t be a mortal sin. You should still confess it next time you go to confession.

matthew

My goodness…all I was saying is that God isn’t going to make you burn in hell because you want to try to figure out how to make a baby! I mean how else would you propose a sperm sample be obtained?
~ Kathy ~

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

Katie1723:

My goodness…all I was saying is that God isn’t going to make you burn in hell because you want to try to figure out how to make a baby! I mean how else would you propose a sperm sample be obtained?
~ Kathy ~

Using a ‘Catholic Condom’ - A condom with a hole in it. Have sex w/ your wife, take the condom to the lab.

That’s moral.

 

[Elliott]

If you have been to confession since the test and didn’t withhold it thinking it was a mortal sin, but just forgot about it then it is forgiven anyway. But it would probably make you feel better to confess it, then you would have covered all your bases.

 

[marty1818]

Katie1723:

My goodness…all I was saying is that God isn’t going to make you burn in hell because you want to try to figure out how to make a baby! I mean how else would you propose a sperm sample be obtained?
~ Kathy ~

I was just trying to point out that to acheive a good by using evil action is incorrect. The use of this logic could be used to try and justify other evils.

matthew

 

[LittleDeb]

In my research on NFP I found this act was one of the ones that opened the floodgates. It was exactly as was described earlier in the thread. People said, “Well how else can you harvest sperm?” So then people said “well if it was moral for medical it must be moral in general.” Society quickly followed the path of least resistance.

To the OP. If you did not know then you are not in a state of sin. Period. You might be suffering some guilt or humiliation at not knowing. That might be troubling you. Please know you are NOT at fault. That your doctor didn’t even suggest there were other options makes me question his competency.

It is up to Catholics to get the word out about the proper way to harvest sperm for analysis. I have found it to be a platform for conversations on morality.

I have also understood that it is to be a silicone perforated condom. I think a latex one causes problems with the test.

 

[Katie1723]

LittleDeb:

.
… That your doctor didn’t even suggest there were other options makes me question his competency. …

Isn’t that a rather harsh statement?? Saying someone is incompetent because their beliefs are not yours? I mean maybe the doctor isn’t of the Catholic faith. Lack of knowledge doesn’t imply incompetency. If that were true I would be in the doc’s category, as there are many things about many things I do not know.
~ Kathy ~

 

[marty1818]

LittleDeb:

In my research on NFP I found this act was one of the ones that opened the floodgates. It was exactly as was described earlier in the thread. People said, “Well how else can you harvest sperm?” So then people said “well if it was moral for medical it must be moral in general.” Society quickly followed the path of least resistance.

 

[kmktexas]

Katie1723:

Isn’t that a rather harsh statement?? Saying someone is incompetent because their beliefs are not yours? I mean maybe the doctor isn’t of the Catholic faith. Lack of knowledge doesn’t imply incompetency. If that were true I would be in the doc’s category, as there are many things about many things I do not know.
~ Kathy ~

We have the right to expect that our doctor’s are knowledgable in medicine AND in medical ethics. In most cases where there is a problem conceiving, the doctor does an initial history and discusses options. At that time, things like IVF are usually discussed. If the doctor knows that the couple is Catholic, he/she also should know that there are fertility methods that will be incompatible with the Church’s teaching. A good medical school will have educated their doctors, regardless of their faith, on what some patients will find ethically and morally acceptable. The doctor shouldn’t be expected to preach Catholicism to the couple but they should not withhold information that would be helpful for the couple to BOTH get the test done and act in a way that is consistent with the Church. I am not saying that this is the case with the OP or his doctor, but many doctors take the easy way out and don’t offer patients ALL of the options.

We don’t expect every person to know all of the ins and outs of infertility testing. But if the doctor is a specialist, we have every right to expect and demand that he/she be knowledgeable and conversant on the various options. No one said the doctor was incompetant because of his/her beliefs. The question of competance came up because the doctor withheld information that he/she knew or should have known was important for the patient to know.

 

[Katie1723]

You are absolutely correct in expecting competance from a physician. However NO doctor knows ALL things about EVERY religion. Question his MEDICAL competance not his RELIGIOUS knowledge.
~ Kathy ~

 

[mark_a]

ames61:

The posts above are right, in that it wouldn’t have been a mortal sin for you, since you weren’t aware of the graveness of the sin at the time. For future reference, I believe Catholic physicians will have patients use a perforated condom to collect a sample during the marital act. This procedure is considered to be acceptable morally.

I happen to have a “friend” who has a doctor who says he needs every drop, especially the first ones, which would probably blow right through the perforation deal.

Goodness, this was done to try to get pregnant, to fulfill his Catholic duty.

I must be wrong, but this reminds me of the Pharasees’ rigidness with the law.

Seems to me he is following the spirit of the law.

 

[Catholic_Heart]

mark a:

I happen to have a “friend” who has a doctor who says he needs every drop, especially the first ones, which would probably blow right through the perforation deal.

Goodness, this was done to try to get pregnant, to fulfill his Catholic duty.

I must be wrong, but this reminds me of the Pharasees’ rigidness with the law.

Seems to me he is following the spirit of the law.

I tend to agree…especially since the act was not committed for pleasure…It’s just like taking bc pills to correct a medical condition…not for birth control…

 

[LittleDeb]

kmktexas:

We have the right to expect that our doctor’s are knowledgable in medicine AND in medical ethics. In most cases where there is a problem conceiving, the doctor does an initial history and discusses options. At that time, things like IVF are usually discussed. If the doctor knows that the couple is Catholic, he/she also should know that there are fertility methods that will be incompatible with the Church’s teaching. A good medical school will have educated their doctors, regardless of their faith, on what some patients will find ethically and morally acceptable. The doctor shouldn’t be expected to preach Catholicism to the couple but they should not withhold information that would be helpful for the couple to BOTH get the test done and act in a way that is consistent with the Church. I am not saying that this is the case with the OP or his doctor, but many doctors take the easy way out and don’t offer patients ALL of the options.

We don’t expect every person to know all of the ins and outs of infertility testing. But if the doctor is a specialist, we have every right to expect and demand that he/she be knowledgeable and conversant on the various options. No one said the doctor was incompetant because of his/her beliefs. The question of competance came up because the doctor withheld information that he/she knew or should have known was important for the patient to know.

Thank you. You expressed it perfectly.

In addition. In my experience with fertility doctors, and other infertile couples the Cathoilc teaching is actually easier to bear. Many couples with other beliefs on the use of condoms and the pill still find masturbation for sperm analysis demeaning.

These couples are already having to involve a doctor into their very private, intimate lives. Then they are told by some doctors that they are now to remove the wife from the picture too. I have been told by more than one non-Catholic couple that they wished they had been told of the perforated silicone condom as an option. I usually refer them to a better doctor. The offices I phone interviewed only mention it if you ask because it is such a “hassle for the lab.” Hassle? Aren’t we paying them?

Delivering a baby is a normal process. It is invasive to almost everyone at the same level. Having to be tested for infertility is very personal and can be very heart-wrenching.

I will respectfully disagree with those who would say it is a letter of law to use the perforated condom. The couples I encountered found the specimen cup to be the letter of the law. They asked if there was some other way. They were told no, this is how it is done.

 

[Katie1723]

When a Catholic couple goes to the non-Catholic physician, I believe it is the couple’s responsibility to be knowledgeable in their faith, not the physician. After all, if the Catholic couple doesn’t know their faith, why should the doctor be held responsible ?
~ Kathy ~

 

[Shiann]

Katie1723:

When a Catholic couple goes to the non-Catholic physician, I believe it is the couple’s responsibility to be knowledgeable in their faith, not the physician. After all, if the Catholic couple doesn’t know their faith, why should the doctor be held responsible ?

~ Kathy ~

This is called Informed Consent. The patient must be aware of the options available to them PRIOR to them accepting a certain line of treatment or testing.

It is the doctor’s job to be aware of all available treatments for a particular ailment, or tests available for a certain line of exploration. And that doctor is required to confer the options available so the patient can make an INFORMED consent.

It is the responsibility of the patient to advise the doctor that he or she is Catholic.

If, after the doctor knows that their patient is Catholic, they do not offer information on optional treatments or tests, I believe they are acting in an unethical manner. At the very least, they are doing a disservice to their patients.

A Catholic’s best bet would be to seek care at their nearest local Catholic Hospital if one is available.