Spilling of unconsecrated wine - what should one do?

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I was the reader for Mass this morning, and the celebrant spilled some of the wine when he was pouring it into the chalices during the preparation of the gifts. I didn’t notice it until he started wiping up the wine during the Sanctus. I figured that I should probably take him a clean corporal, but I didn’t really know when I should take it to him. Obviously, the consecration is not the time to do so. At the sign of peace, I took him a clean corporal and clean purificators. I asked him what he wanted me to do, and he told me to place it on the altar and take the dirty one. I gently moved the two chalices and ciborium and removed the stained corporal and placed the clean one and the two clean purificators on the altar and went back to my seat.

My problem is that I felt that it was inappropriate for me to move the chalices and ciborium to remove the dirty corporal and place the new one on the altar. What is the proper thing to do? Someone told me after Mass that he should’ve moved them himself, so I feel bad. At least I’ll know in case it happens again, I guess?
 
I think you coped with the situation perfectly. He’d have been glad not to get wine on his hands, I’m sure, because of spoiling the missal, and grateful that you had the sense to get clean linen.

It sounds like one of those occasions when it’s the right thing to cope with a mishap with as little fuss and as much commonsense as possible. You did what had to be done as quietly and reverently as you could. Good work…
 
If the priest wants something he will ask for it.

The altar server, if present, is the proper person to dealing with the priest at the altar, not the reader.

Wine spills all the time. Not huge amounts but sometimes it drips or droplets splash out of the cruet or flagon as the wine is poured. Corporals need constant cleaning. From a very practical perspective, the second corporal might get soiled as well and then two have to be cleaned.

-Tim-
 
You did what he asked. He’s in charge of the Liturgy. No one else’s commentary really matters.
 
I was the reader for Mass this morning, and the celebrant spilled some of the wine when he was pouring it into the chalices during the preparation of the gifts. I didn’t notice it until he started wiping up the wine during the Sanctus. I figured that I should probably take him a clean corporal, but I didn’t really know when I should take it to him. Obviously, the consecration is not the time to do so. At the sign of peace, I took him a clean corporal and clean purificators. I asked him what he wanted me to do, and he told me to place it on the altar and take the dirty one. I gently moved the two chalices and ciborium and removed the stained corporal and placed the clean one and the two clean purificators on the altar and went back to my seat.

My problem is that I felt that it was inappropriate for me to move the chalices and ciborium to remove the dirty corporal and place the new one on the altar. What is the proper thing to do? Someone told me after Mass that he should’ve moved them himself, so I feel bad. At least I’ll know in case it happens again, I guess?
What Tim said.
What makes you think the priest did not know what to do or was incapable of addressing it? It’s unconsecrated wine.

:confused:
 
What Tim said.
What makes you think the priest did not know what to do or was incapable of addressing it? It’s unconsecrated wine.

:confused:
I didn’t say I thought the priest didn’t know what to do. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I should note that this priest was a guest priest and an elderly one at that. Typically, the sacristan tends to these things, but she was MIA at the time; that is why I, the reader, offered a clean corporal and purificators. I’m sure if our pastor was presiding at Mass and did this, he would’ve asked for clean linens because a situation of this nature has happened before, and that is what was done.
 
If the priest wants something he will ask for it.

The altar server, if present, is the proper person to dealing with the priest at the altar, not the reader.

Wine spills all the time. Not huge amounts but sometimes it drips or droplets splash out of the cruet or flagon as the wine is poured. Corporals need constant cleaning. From a very practical perspective, the second corporal might get soiled as well and then two have to be cleaned.

-Tim-
Correct.
 
I was the reader for Mass this morning, and the celebrant spilled some of the wine when he was pouring it into the chalices during the preparation of the gifts. I didn’t notice it until he started wiping up the wine during the Sanctus. I figured that I should probably take him a clean corporal, but I didn’t really know when I should take it to him. Obviously, the consecration is not the time to do so. At the sign of peace, I took him a clean corporal and clean purificators. I asked him what he wanted me to do, and he told me to place it on the altar and take the dirty one. I gently moved the two chalices and ciborium and removed the stained corporal and placed the clean one and the two clean purificators on the altar and went back to my seat.

My problem is that I felt that it was inappropriate for me to move the chalices and ciborium to remove the dirty corporal and place the new one on the altar. What is the proper thing to do? Someone told me after Mass that he should’ve moved them himself, so I feel bad. At least I’ll know in case it happens again, I guess?
You did what the celebrant asked. The other person is wrong. I can’t possibly know why the priest presiding asked you to do it – perhaps this was the moment when he had to go to the tabernacle to retrieve the reserved sacrament? – but if I, as the celebrant, asked someone to do something to help me, I would take umbrage if they began an argument with me, and least of all at the altar, about the propriety of it and whether or not they should comply with a clear directive I just gave.

Having been a priest for many decades and a professor of liturgy and sacraments, I have little patience if someone who is not my peer would presume to attempt to debate a point with me while we are standing at the altar in the middle of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. It would be shut down by me very quickly and with few words…essentially “comply or be gone.”
 
If the priest wants something he will ask for it.

The altar server, if present, is the proper person to dealing with the priest at the altar, not the reader.

Wine spills all the time. Not huge amounts but sometimes it drips or droplets splash out of the cruet or flagon as the wine is poured. Corporals need constant cleaning. From a very practical perspective, the second corporal might get soiled as well and then two have to be cleaned.

-Tim-
I have been a visiting priest in parishes where I turned to ask the altar server for something and s/he was unable to help…s/he didn’t know what I was talking about. The Reader did precisely the right thing in intervening since the Reader knew where the necessary linens were kept. One can never presume that people actually know or remember where such things are kept since they typically do not concern them.
 
You did what the celebrant asked. The other person is wrong. I can’t possibly know why the priest presiding asked you to do it – perhaps this was the moment when he had to go to the tabernacle to retrieve the reserved sacrament? – but if I, as the celebrant, asked someone to do something to help me, I would take umbrage if they began an argument with me, and least of all at the altar, about the propriety of it and whether or not they should comply with a clear directive I just gave.
This is when it happened - he had to go and retrieve the reserved hosts in the tabernacle, so I asked him if he wanted a clean corporal, and he said yes, so I took away the soiled linens and placed the clean ones on the altar and went back to my seat to kneel. I was just hesitant about moving the consecrated species, but I ended up doing that. Everything was fine after that.
 
Thanks for the replies, everyone. This is the first time something like this has happened in my presence at Mass, so it was a new experience. I think I’m going to ask my pastor what he would like me to do if a situation like this should happen again. These situations are tricky, however, because each priest has his own preferences on what should be done. Thanks!
 
This is when it happened - he had to go and retrieve the reserved hosts in the tabernacle, so I asked him if he wanted a clean corporal, and he said yes, so I took away the soiled linens and placed the clean ones on the altar and went back to my seat to kneel. I was just hesitant about moving the consecrated species, but I ended up do that. Everything was fine after that.
Based on what you described, that is what I assumed had to be the case. We don’t have a lot of time at that moment to accomplish the task at hand, of retrieving the ciboria from the tabernacle. Since he has to go to the tabernacle in the current disposition, asking you to help as he did was the most logical and rational solution.

I compliment you that you saw the situation and helped him in his need. Depending upon the amount of wine, it can be a problem. Thanks be to God, it happened before the consecration and he could positively the spilled wine from his intention.

When one is visiting a parish, especially if you have not been before, a priest does not know who to turn to that will know both what he is asking for and, even more importantly, where it can be found.

You should be at peace…you did the right thing to help and you did nothing wrong relative to the sacred vessels. I have had more extraordinary things than having to ask a Reader to move the chalice when I have offered Mass.
 
I don’t understand this thread and the line of conversation.

The OP did not say that the priest asked them to bring linens. The OP said that they took it upon themself to bring linens to the priest.

The only time I ever have a problem as a server doing anything is when priest or deacon whispers, or mumbles, or points or nods their head and expects me to know what they want. If I am given a clear command, I comply.

No one is talking about arguing with a priest at the altar. I have no idea where that came from.
 
I have been a visiting priest in parishes where I turned to ask the altar server for something and s/he was unable to help…s/he didn’t know what I was talking about. The Reader did precisely the right thing in intervening since the Reader knew where the necessary linens were kept. One can never presume that people actually know or remember where such things are kept since they typically do not concern them.
This goes double for parishes that keep young altar servers. At my current parish altar servers may be as young as 8 years old - hardly likely for an 8 year old to remember where things were kept.
 
I don’t understand this thread and the line of conversation.

The OP did not say that the priest asked them to bring linens. The OP said that they took it upon themself to bring linens to the priest.

The only time I ever have a problem as a server doing anything is when priest or deacon whispers, or mumbles, or points or nods their head and expects me to know what they want. If I am given a clear command, I comply.

No one is talking about arguing with a priest at the altar. I have no idea where that came from.
The OP indicated that someone else accused him/her of wrong doing after Mass by touching the vessels, but Father had directed OP to do so. That is what I perceived the crux of this thread to be.
 
I don’t understand this thread and the line of conversation.

The OP did not say that the priest asked them to bring linens. The OP said that they took it upon themself to bring linens to the priest.

The only time I ever have a problem as a server doing anything is when priest or deacon whispers, or mumbles, or points or nods their head and expects me to know what they want. If I am given a clear command, I comply.

No one is talking about arguing with a priest at the altar. I have no idea where that came from.
I am happy to clarify.

The Reader brought the linens at the Reader’s own initiative, which as a priest I compliment. S/he saw the situation and responded. I would have been grateful, as a visiting priest in that parish. If, perchance, I had not needed the linen, I would have simply left it aside. That we are talking about an extra corporal and more than one purificator indicates that we are talking about a not insignificant quantity of spilled wine – indeed there was a need. And the priest, in fact, had the Reader deploy the linen.

As a priest, I have said Mass with servers ranging from installed acolytes to seminarians to candidates for the diaconate to adults to children ranging down to age 7. I famously remember, and have related, one occasion where I was a visiting priest and, at the offertory, discovered that there was no corporal…neither on the altar nor on top of the chalice. I leaned over to the young server and “Please go to the sacristy and get a corporal”. The server looked at me and said “Father, I have no idea what you are even talking about!” So I said Mass without a corporal. I couldn’t leave the altar and I had no idea if anyone in the congregation had ever even been in the sacristy. Nothing to do.

I am happy for you and your parish if you are a knowledgeable server.

I will add, however, that as a priest, I make a judgment as to whom I turn to if I need something in the midst of the Mass. It may be the deacon. It may be the server…but I may judge that I am better off motioning to approach the Presider’s chair either the Reader or an Extraordinary Minister, particularly if I know one of them better knows the sacristy than the server does. The decision is properly mine, as the Presider.

As for your question: “No one is talking about arguing with a priest at the altar. I have no idea where that came from”…it derives from the poster saying “My problem is that I felt that it was inappropriate for me to move the chalices and ciborium to remove the dirty corporal and place the new one on the altar. What is the proper thing to do? Someone told me after Mass that he should’ve moved them himself, so I feel bad.” The Reader related though what happened and please note what the priest said: “At the sign of peace, I took him a clean corporal and clean purificators. I asked him what he wanted me to do, and he told me to place it on the altar and take the dirty one.”

In other words, the lay person who criticised the Reader was wholly in the wrong. If the priest said to do it, it is wrong to say to the priest that he should do it himself, as the critical lay person said; it is not appropriate at the altar to begin questioning the propriety of fulfilling the Presider’s explicit instruction. That is completely inappropriate.

Had the lay person who criticised the Reader have said that to me, had I been the Presider when I directed that person to change the linen while I retrieved the reserved sacrament…in other words, and to be clear, for someone to presume to say to me that “no, it is for you as the priest to change the linen,” I would have indeed said what I wrote: “Comply with what I instructed you or be gone.”

Which is why I reassured the Reader that what the Reader did was, in fact, completely proper.
 
15 posts on much ado over nothing. Good night, all!
The original poster had a concern. The concern has been addressed. You may find that it is “much ado over nothing” but I dare say the Reader who is the original poster would not agree that the concern was “much ado over nothing.” And it is the Reader’s thread, as the original poster. They have the right to have their concern addressed and, as appropriate, assuaged.
 
This goes double for parishes that keep young altar servers. At my current parish altar servers may be as young as 8 years old - hardly likely for an 8 year old to remember where things were kept.
This is one of several reasons why I much prefer the move from children to older people assisting in the sanctuary.
 
The original poster had a concern. The concern has been addressed. You may find that it is “much ado over nothing” but I dare say the Reader who is the original poster would not agree that the concern was “much ado over nothing.” And it is the Reader’s thread, as the original poster. They have the right to have their concern addressed and, as appropriate, assuaged.
Agreed.

My intent was not to downplay the concern of the OP, but like so many threads the problem was addressed early and then morphed into near ugliness, with petty disagreement between other posters.

In fairness, my post should probably reduced the number of arguably unneeded posts by perhaps 2 or 3, and perhaps expounded upon the reason for my angst, which clearly was not with the OP.
 
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