Spirit-body and NDE?

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Layp3rs0n

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I have heard many an account of near death experiences, some more believable than others. My question here is not whether they happen to some (because I think most of us do believe that they can and do happen from time to time), but some of the logistics therein.

A common theme, even in Catholic NDE’s, even in ones promoted by the Church is the fact that so many people who have them experience receiving judgment in a body. Aren’t we mere soul after death, will, and intellect devoid of our bodies? Yes I know we get a new body at the general Ressurction. But for example, those who experience hell, even Saints, describe having a body that can be tortured, or moving down a dark tunnel, walking, being put in holes in walls, etc. Prominent Catholic speaker Marino Restrepo said he experienced judgment standing “waist deep in a lake” in front of God. How does he have a waist if he is out of body?? Does the soul have a shape? Is it a spirit-body of sorts? Why the common theme of physicality?
 
I’m not sure anyone can give you any answers or guidance… no one really knows.

I’m also not sure if it pays to look into topics like this, just because no one knows. I suppose it could be chalked up to the phrase God’s ways are so far above our ways… we’re not going to know or understand. When I think of the vast number of experiences people can have on this earth, I shudder to try and understand, but I can’t. There’s no way.

Just the other day I was watching a show about how some people have claimed to have seen gnomes, fairies and other ‘fae’ life here on earth… weird things like tiny airplanes with gnome people inside and aborigine-like 3 foot tall people jumping out at them in the woods… like really strange and obscure things that make you think you just might not know all that you think you know! … that is, if you take it seriously… which I do because I’ve been around people who talked about such things (not fairy, but weird and strange obscure things happening to them). There is no reason for them to lie and they are sane people.

I know there are some who will lie, and there are some who hallucinated or made things up in their mind, but still, there is always those people who were convinced as to what happened to them. I don’t believe everything can be dismissed as brain malfunction or erroneous thinking, or dreams hallucinations and what have you- like how society always seems to downplay these things. To do this eradicates all of the spiritual… I mean, why stop there? If there is nothing of that realm, then going to church and spiritually is just a social club or a nice idea you can try out here and there whenever you feel like it. (and for many it is anyway.)

You want to speak logistics with spirituality, I think you can’t. Since spirituality has to do with the soul and soul has to deal with the core being of life- feelings, senses, understandings… all pertaining to that one core being (not another), that’s how one can’t map it… its too subjective and only a Father that created that soul can understand that soul enough to speak spiritually to that soul through that event. I think this is why Mary kept and pondered all that was said to her spiritually in her heart… You just can’t share this stuff with others. They couldn’t understand, because if its truly spiritual, and if its truly God, then God is ‘talking’ with them through what only they know and understand- meanings, if you will that only that soul, in the way it works and how it was ‘knitted’ by The Father, knows.

Perhaps what I just said is too subjective?! I dunno. But it just seems to me that if the guy who had the NDE said he was standing waist high in water, then he was, by his soul’s understanding. I would then fathom, if its really true, that then yes, our souls have a sort of spirit body. I thought similarly when I heard about the story of St. Benedict watching the soul of St. Scholastica ascend into heaven. Same with the passage in Scripture of Jesus ascending into heaven… what for? What meaning? How could that be and why go that way? He could have just faded from sight or disappeared. At that time the sky and going up into the sky was associated with going to heaven, though today due to space programs and such I’m not sure many people associate going up with heaven, but rather outer space.

SO, not sure if this was the type of response you were looking for, but its how I responded none-the-less.
 
I can understand that. Like perhaps these are visions God gives to the souls while out of body, the perception of having dimensions, so that the soul can have a greater sense if understanding? Souls don’t have eyes but many report to see their own body below them as they die. Perhaps it is a vision imposed on the soul.
 
Layp3rs0n said:
I can understand that. Like perhaps these are visions God gives to the souls while out of body, the perception of having dimensions, so that the soul can have a greater sense if understanding? Souls don’t have eyes but many report to see their own body below them as they die. Perhaps it is a vision imposed on the soul.
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Yeah, I guess that is what I mean!

Not sure if this was what you were looking for or not. Or were you just trying to start a discussion on the topic? (It is an interesting topic by the way)
 
I really was just merely curious. I am under the impression that the soul “is in the form of the body” but not that this means shape. I need to brush up on my Thomastic vocabulary. I still believe the soul has no shape.
 
All I can think of to say is that our Catholic faith has a bottomless treasure chest about prayer and the sacraments that can give us everything we need.

To look too closely at details in the experiences of others can sidetrack us from focusing on the Lord.

Peace,

Dorothy
 
Assuming that NDE happens at all, and is not just the human head faltering from lack of breath, then:

Methinks the difficulty lies in our use of the term “body.”

“Body” in common usage refers to the biological, solid form of a human being, which becomes an inanimate object upon death. It would be true that no-one’s NDE or afterlife involves or uses the “body” so understood.

But a purely spiritual existence would be dark, silent, still and even mindless. Eyes, ears, and limbs are all body-parts.. So for that matter, is our head, without which there is no thinking, perceiving, knowing or remembering.

So if NDE occurs, is not a breathless dream, and recipients are able to see, hear, move and know, then they must have the use of an equivalent embodiment, even though not the “body” we know from human life.

While the term “spirit-body” is rather confusing, it is often used because our language is inadequate to the other life.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA!
 
A spiritual body, like a ghost looks human but is transparent and can walk through walls.
 
GEddie said:
Assuming that NDE happens at all, and is not just the human head faltering from lack of breath, then:

Methinks the difficulty lies in our use of the term “body.”

“Body” in common usage refers to the biological, solid form of a human being, which becomes an inanimate object upon death. It would be true that no-one’s NDE or afterlife involves or uses the “body” so understood.

But a purely spiritual existence would be dark, silent, still and even mindless. Eyes, ears, and limbs are all body-parts.. So for that matter, is our head, without which there is no thinking, perceiving, knowing or remembering.

So if NDE occurs, is not a breathless dream, and recipients are able to see, hear, move and know, then they must have the use of an equivalent embodiment, even though not the “body” we know from human life.

While the term “spirit-body” is rather confusing, it is often used because our language is inadequate to the other life.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA!
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What you are describing sounds like ‘the void’, Ive read many many NDEs with people talking about the void, some call it peaceful, others say it is terrifying, imo, it would drive me to panic state in about 2 minutes…

The void is described as being a total blackness, no light at all, nothing there, but YOU, are there, your mind is functioning just like it did when you were alive, you still have the same thoughts and are still aware, but you have no body, no arms, or fingers to move, its almost like being totally paralyzed, lying there and closing your eyes, you are just there with your own thoughts, for who knows how long?!!! I guess until we get glorified bodies?

Some of the people that experienced this, said after awhile, they began to question whether their earthly life was even real or if it was just their mind (in the void), creating a false world/ existence…this literally terrifies me!
 
mikekle said:
What you are describing sounds like ‘the void’, Ive read many many NDEs with people talking about the void, some call it peaceful, others say it is terrifying, imo, it would drive me to panic state in about 2 minutes…

The void is described as being a total blackness, no light at all, nothing there, but YOU, are there, your mind is functioning just like it did when you were alive, you still have the same thoughts and are still aware, but you have no body, no arms, or fingers to move, its almost like being totally paralyzed, lying there and closing your eyes, you are just there with your own thoughts, for who knows how long?!!! I guess until we get glorified bodies?

Some of the people that experienced this, said after awhile, they began to question whether their earthly life was even real or if it was just their mind (in the void), creating a false world/ existence…this literally terrifies me!
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No kidding. I had to deal with sense deprivation once as a child and the possibility that that may face me in death is why death terrifies me.

On the other hand, some NDE recipients seem to go directly from “body to body,” even if the “new” one doesn’t correspond directly to their human soma; so there is hope. 🙂

ICXC NIKA
 
mikekle said:
What you are describing sounds like ‘the void’, Ive read many many NDEs with people talking about the void, some call it peaceful, others say it is terrifying, imo, it would drive me to panic state in about 2 minutes…

The void is described as being a total blackness, no light at all, nothing there, but YOU, are there, your mind is functioning just like it did when you were alive, you still have the same thoughts and are still aware, but you have no body, no arms, or fingers to move, its almost like being totally paralyzed, lying there and closing your eyes, you are just there with your own thoughts, for who knows how long?!!! I guess until we get glorified bodies?

Some of the people that experienced this, said after awhile, they began to question whether their earthly life was even real or if it was just their mind (in the void), creating a false world/ existence…this literally terrifies me!
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NDEs are so subjective. Some seem to have a positive experience on people, although they can be misleading.

So many times in scripture we read “do not be afraid”, “fear not”.

Sacred Scripture, and meditating on it, brings us to a deeper understanding of God’s love. Silent listening to the Lord and sharing about the Word is very enlightening.

May the peace of Jesus be with us all,

Dorothy
 
Dorothy said:
NDEs are so subjective. Some seem to have a positive experience on people, although they can be misleading.

So many times in scripture we read “do not be afraid”, “fear not”.

Sacred Scripture, and meditating on it, brings us to a deeper understanding of God’s love. Silent listening to the Lord and sharing about the Word is very enlightening.

May the peace of Jesus be with us all,

Dorothy
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^ what Dorothy said… 100% No need to be afraid of judgement if we are truly living out our lives for God.

I also second that NDE’s differ wildly from each other, so it can’t be said that we can gather any information about how its going to be like when we go. Jesus said that eye has not seen what God has prepared for those who love Him. Of course He’s talking about when one is in heaven and not what its like on the way there, but the phrase “what God has prepared” seems to mean the process is individualized to each soul.

Being alone in your own thoughts is what you are supposed to be doing when you pray. Every night you should be sitting before the Lord in quiet meditation, preparing for your judgement, going through your day, what you did, what you failed to do, listening for the guidance of the Holy Spirit on those matters. I have heard people say they are afraid of this silence, that it can get to them when they stay in monasteries, but really once through the ‘storm’ of it, its very peaceful and to go back into the world is very uncomfortable!
 
AnneElizabeth said:
^ what Dorothy said… 100% No need to be afraid of judgement if we are truly living out our lives for God.

, but the phrase “what God has prepared” seems to mean the process is individualized to each soul.

!
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Its one thing not to be afraid of this judgement, but another thing to remember that God said there will be many people who think they are OK with him and are living according to his rules, but they will be rejected by God…this is not too reassuring!

The second sentence above, Ive wondered this myself, if our ‘hell’ is actually something we create with our own minds and then live it out in eternity, everyone has their own version of what would be hell for them (the worst possible scenario)…if this is true, Im in trouble!!
 
mikekle said:
Its one thing not to be afraid of this judgement, but another thing to remember that God said there will be many people who think they are OK with him and are living according to his rules, but they will be rejected by God…this is not too reassuring!

The second sentence above, Ive wondered this myself, if our ‘hell’ is actually something we create with our own minds and then live it out in eternity, everyone has their own version of what would be hell for them (the worst possible scenario)…if this is true, Im in trouble!!
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Someone once said that “Hell is a nightmare from which there is no awakening; Heaven is an awakening from which there is no more need for sleep.”

I imagine we awaken when we receive our first inhale in our spiritual bodies!

ICXC NIKA!
 
mikekle said:
Its one thing not to be afraid of this judgement, but another thing to remember that God said there will be many people who think they are OK with him and are living according to his rules, but they will be rejected by God…this is not too reassuring!

The second sentence above, Ive wondered this myself, if our ‘hell’ is actually something we create with our own minds and then live it out in eternity, everyone has their own version of what would be hell for them (the worst possible scenario)…if this is true, Im in trouble!!
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Glad you brought that up, because there is a major difference between the soul that believes they are doing everything right, what they should be doing according to ‘the script’ (rules) laid out before them… and that soul that seriously all the time strives out of love for God’s sake to do everything right. Major huge difference, but you are right to note about what Scripture says about those thinking they are ‘ok’ under God (by the way, “ok” is lukewarmness, which God hates and says he’d rather a person COLD)

I’d also think hell would also be fit and apropos to that specific soul. God is just. In the opposite way it is said in Scripture that God designs (prepares) our room in heaven, our ‘house’ specifically for us. God knows us better than we know ourselves!

2 Corinthians 5:1 ESV / 48 helpful votes

For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens
 
AnneElizabeth said:
Glad you brought that up, because there is a major difference between the soul that believes they are doing everything right, what they should be doing according to ‘the script’ (rules) laid out before them… and that soul that seriously all the time strives out of love for God’s sake to do everything right. Major huge difference, but you are right to note about what Scripture says about those thinking they are ‘ok’ under God (by the way, “ok” is lukewarmness, which God hates and says he’d rather a person COLD)

I’d also think hell would also be fit and apropos to that specific soul. God is just. In the opposite way it is said in Scripture that God designs (prepares) our room in heaven, our ‘house’ specifically for us. God knows us better than we know ourselves!

2 Corinthians 5:1 ESV / 48 helpful votes

For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens
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This does make sense, our heaven or hell would be made up of things we prefer or fear.

I once read an NDE from a early 20s guy who was living a secular life, womanizing, drugs, parties, etc. he and his friend died in a car crash, and he said they must have died pretty quick, he did not remember anything, but then realizing he was in a dark place, he saw his friend there, on a cross, being tormented by demons, he said they looked like humanoid dinosaurs, he saw many other people there, and said some of the demons were ripping people apart, limb from limb and the people were screaming for help…he was eventually brought back to life, and I believe he was only dead for a few minutes, but said it felt like hours, his friend did not make it, he worried afterwards, that his friend was still in that terrible place.

But we have no way of knowing if that was truly his friend, it could have been his mind creating it, although if you are there experiencing it, that wouldnt matter too much, as it would be very real for you.

On the other hand, majority of the NDEs Ive read, even some of the bad ones, the people seem to agree death is not something to be afraid of, that sort of reassures me, but ‘waking up’ in a hellish place and realizing you are going to be there forever must be terrible in itself.
 
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