Spiritual and material souls - an explanation please

[Snerticus]

Hi everyone. I have always wondered about animal souls and what happens to them when they die. I know they do not go to heaven - at least not like us - or else Jesus would have died for them too. Since He did not, (but obviously animals can play a very important role in human lives - sometimes even taking the place of another human in the case of lonely people who have no one else) I asked a question on the “ask an apologist” section about a month ago about this. I had just joined and I apparently did not use either the proper method to ask the question or the question was not exciting enough to answer.

Whatever the case, several questions have come up on the “ask an apologist” section and almost all are given the answer that there are two types of sous; material and spiritual.

My question is this: where in Church literature does it discuss these two types of souls? I’d like to learn a bit more about them if I could. The apologist never put any quotations about where this belief comes from, so I’m at a loss as to where they got it from. I’d never heard this myself.

Since soul to me means spirit, how can an animal have a material soul? It sounds like an oxymoron, like *jumbo shrimp. *

Can anyone point me to any Church documents on this matter? Of course, the more in-depth the better!

Thanks and God Bless,
Snert

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Briefly, no, I can’t point you to documents. But I will say that the distinction among soul-types is longstanding in Catholic tradition. Thomas Aquinas draws on what I believe is the Aristotelian distinction among vegetable, animal, and rational souls. The breakdown between spiritual and material souls would presumably be between those which simply animate matter and those which are created for communion with God (and are thus eternal, i.e. human and angelic souls).

 

[CradleCath]

Hi everyone. I have always wondered about animal souls and what happens to them when they die. I know they do not go to heaven - at least not like us - or else Jesus would have died for them too. Since He did not, (but obviously animals can play a very important role in human lives - sometimes even taking the place of another human in the case of lonely people who have no one else) I asked a question on the “ask an apologist” section about a month ago about this. I had just joined and I apparently did not use either the proper method to ask the question or the question was not exciting enough to answer.

Whatever the case, several questions have come up on the “ask an apologist” section and almost all are given the answer that there are two types of sous; material and spiritual.

My question is this: where in Church literature does it discuss these two types of souls? I’d like to learn a bit more about them if I could. The apologist never put any quotations about where this belief comes from, so I’m at a loss as to where they got it from. I’d never heard this myself.

Since soul to me means spirit, how can an animal have a material soul? It sounds like an oxymoron, like *jumbo shrimp. *

Can anyone point me to any Church documents on this matter? Of course, the more in-depth the better!

Thanks and God Bless,
Snert

While I cannot answer your question about material/spiritual souls (& I agree that Material soul sounds like an oxymoron), I’ve come to believe that my 2 black Labrador Retrievers who have died after long years of devotion & service to both me & my family, they will be in heaven for **MY **sake.

Now, we have Ben…our third black Lab. While he doesn’t need to do the farm work & protect the children (as they are grown with dogs of their own ), he brings much joy to my husband & myself. The children, after I’d lost my 2nd Lab, gave Ben to me when he was just a few weeks old…in a basket…for Mother’s Day. God will bring him Home to be with us someday.

I know that this is not what the Church says. However, since it’s the ONLY place that I deviate from Church teachings, I think it’s O.K. I think that God will understand, since I thank Him so often for these wonderful creatures He’s given to us that have brought so much into our lives.

(And it can’t hurt that my latest dog carries the name of Pope Benedict.)

 

[CristusRex]

I know that this is not what the Church says. However, since it’s the ONLY place that I deviate from Church teachings, I think it’s O.K. I think that God will understand,

Indeed, I think it is not a sin to hope, even against the church teaching. For it is not a sin to hope an unbaptized child will get his place in heaven, neither is to hope for the salvation of mankind as a whole.

 

[Snerticus]

Thanks for your responses. I was wondering because for some reason, God gave me a keen fondness for animals in general. One of my dogs, a chihuahua, had a very bad heart and for the last 6 years of her life I took care of her like she was my child. She needed medication, took seizures frequently, turned blue and fainted (in my opinion had heart attacks) frequently in the last few years, and had a constant loud cough always. Her abdomen had grown large from fluid retention and I was the only one she was comfortable with. I paid extra attention to her because I knew it would ease her suffering if I did. For the first 6 years of her life, I just “put up with her” becuase she was just so scared and unresponsive. But after I started treating her for her bad heart, she warmed up and relied on me for support, much like a human. I grew close to her those last 6 years and it was like taking care of a sick child or elderly relative. During that time, she was so beautiful to me, much more so than she was when she was young and healthy.

I had her put to sleep on New Year’s Eve, 2007 becuase she had turned blue, could not stop coughing, and just sat there. She was ALWAYS interested in food, even when sick, but this time for about 24 hours she did nothing but cough and sit in the same spot. No interest in food, and her tongue hung out of her mouth and was bluish purple. I knew it was time. No more suffering for her.

I still miss that lil’ gal. I dream of her occasionally, but what really struck me was the last dream I had of her - it was so real. She was back laying on my bed and I was rubbing her big fat tummy and I asked why she still has a big belly because now that she’s gone, she should be normal to me again. I put my hand around her belly and it felt exactly like it did when she was alive. I was just glad she was back with me in that dream, and yes, I knew it was a dream even as I was talking to her. She panted and stared at me and wiggled her little tail like it was good to be back home…I woke up happy that morning.

After I woke up, I had to stop and think… if God just “poofed” her out of existence, then why would I have a dream like that? I don’t think of her often anymore, so dreams like that really stick out when I have them. There has to be a reason for it. I know God does something with animals - especially the ones who have helped us immensely during our lives. I just think that it’s a mystery as to what He does with them after they die. Whether we will see them again as we did here or as something else in the life to come…

Maybe those special animals in our lives will be there in some way for us, even if they look nothing like what they did here on earth.

God Bless,
Snert

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think that a spiritual soul is immortal and unique to the individual; it cannot be recreated or duplicated. I would suggest that if if an animal has only a material soul there is no reason God cannot recreate it in the new earth. If we want them we will have them.

 

[NeedImprovement]

For Snerticus:

• The wording varies a little with each translation/version, but the sentiment is the same:

Proverbs 12:10 (New International Version)

10 A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal,
but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.



(Thanks for sharing that).

 

[Shin]

cts.org.au/2000/soulsandspirits.htm

"Material Soul

The material soul is called material not because it is made of matter but because it is dependent upon matter for its be and for its do. The material soul is the principle of life of a creature which will cease to exist at death, namely, the plant or the brute animal. While the body depends for its life upon its soul, the material soul depends upon a suitable organization of the body for it to be able to maintain its own existence and its vivifying influence. For the material soul is not created i.e. made out of nothing, but is educed from the potency of the matter and returns to the potency of matter when the body through age or disease or injury is no longer able to support the soul. We do not say that life comes from non-life but that actual life can come from virtual life. For example an apple seed is not actually an apple tree but contains one virtually. If the seed is planted and the right conditions exist then the matter will become sufficiently disposed for the soul to arise and actually (rather than virtually) give life and order to the beginnings of an actual (rather than a virtual) apple tree. The material soul is not a thing in its own right but the principle of a thing. It cannot exist by itself but only as the form of the living body."

 

[Snerticus]

Thanks for that link! I thought that the only references I could find on this was from St. Thomas Aquinas.

So, I guess what I need to ask here is, this is basically only Thomist philosophy? It’s not found anywhere else? Does this mean that the Church accepts this as dogma or doctrine or are we free to question it and/or enlarge upon it by reflection and contemplation?

So many questions, so little time…