Spiritual but not religious

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What do you say to someone (especially if it’s a family member) who believes that religion and church are a waste of time because of hypocritical church members and that once they pray to God and believe in him and do good works that that’s enough?
 
allana said:
What do you say to someone (especially if it’s a family member) who believes that religion and church are a waste of time because of hypocritical church members and that once they pray to God and believe in him and do good works that that’s enough?
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Firstly, I like to start out with saying something like, "Jesus gathered 12 apostles around Him who traveled with Him, ministered with Him, preached the Gospel with Him, and one of those twelve betrayed Him. If Jesus had someone who was in His closest circle of friends who betrayed Him it should not surprise us nor create a sense of contradiction in us that the Church still has people in Her that know the truth yet choose to live in a way that contradicts it.

Secondly, I would say that, Jesus said from His own mouth that He came not for the righteous but for sinners, just as the physician does not minister to those that are well but to those that are sick. (paraphrase)

Thirdly, I would point out the fact that there are many people who believe in God and a Spiritual, yet, very many of them differ in great and small way concerning what is truth. This is pure subjectivism or relativism. One cannot have multiple versions of “the truth”. If there is truth then there must be only one truth if truth is to be true truth (that’s a lot of truths  ). If that is the case than if God exists and he desires to be known then he would provide a way for us to know that truth, and the whole unadulterated truth at that. We see this through the OT leading to Jesus the fullness of the Truth, and we see this in the commissioning of Peter in Matthew 16 and in 2 Tim. 3:15 where Paul says that the Church is the pillar and foundation (Bulwark/Guardian) of the Truth. Truth is a very important thing, for Christ say that “I am the way the TRUTH and the life, no one comes to the Father except by Me.” (I forget the Ch. Vs. sorry) Truth, therefore, is a very important thing, not to be left up to ones own subjective opinion, “what feels right”. Hope this helps.
 
“I’m spiritual, but not religious…” I get that one all the time. Religion has become almost a dirty word in evangelical protestantism and even some Catholic circles.

I think a lot of people say it like it’s a cliche-- without even really knowing what they’re saying, you know what I mean? Sometimes I’ll just ask them why they think that way, and where it’s supported in the Bible. Hypocrites are condemned in scripture but religion is not. Also you could point to the rituals of prayer and Eucharist in the early church…examples are all throughout the NT, esp. Acts and 1 & 2 Corinthians.

Just try and make them think about what they’re saying, if you can.
 
Acknowledge that there are hypocrites. Yes, there are sinners in church. Someone once said if that weren’t the case, all the churches would be empty. Does this person avoid other places where people don’t behave as they should (school, grocery store, DMV, etc.)? How many people really fit the description she gave? If there were no hypocrites, would they go to church? My guess is it’s something else, and the “hypocrite” statement is just an easy excuse.

Share your experience with church. Why do you go even though the people there are imperfect? What do you gain from being in church? I almost hesitate to write that because we should not attend church because of what it does for us but because we want to honor God with our time and sacrifice. I also know that I feel great after church, and I am so blessed by the wonderful Christians in my church family.

Suggest that the Bible talked about faith communities. We are supposed to work with others in Christ. And those others can build us up when we are weak. Find a few people who truly live a Christian life and focus on them, not on those who are having difficulty overcoming their sins.

Suggest that she not attend a church service, but sacrifice time to sit with God - in His presence. Maybe at Adoration or just in the middle of the day. Show God that you are going out of your way for Him.

My sister had been out of the church for many years and then returned. About a year after she went back to church, her son was in a serious car accident with 6 of his friends. She knows that she could not have made it through that experience if God had not called her back to church. She drew great strength from her faith.

Maybe you can interest her in studying the Bible with you. When we really get into the Bible, it draws us closer to God and we want to spend more time with Him and with others of like minds.
 
I would urge, “You should come on back to the Church. No matter how full it is of hypocrites, there’s always room for one more.”
 
allana said:
What do you say to someone (especially if it’s a family member) who believes that religion and church are a waste of time because of hypocritical church members and that once they pray to God and believe in him and do good works that that’s enough?
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You could tell them there’s always room for one more…hypocrite that is!👍
 
Cluny said:
I would urge, “You should come on back to the Church. No matter how full it is of hypocrites, there’s always room for one more.”
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:doh2:Oops! Didn’t read your post before I put in my two cents! Well there you go…here’s your answer! :tiphat: Great minds think alike
 
I tend to find that those who claim that they are spiritual, but not religious, are really neither. How can you meditate on a spirit when you have no religion to base it on? What do they ponder, clouds, streetsweepers?

Speaking as someone who suffered from aridity of spirit for nearly a decade, I held to my religion, knowing my spirit would fall into line when the time came. Without religion, how is this possible? Gosh, how do you even know what “spiritual” is?

In my opinion, this is an irrational position. One cannot acknowledge a spirit and have nothing to base it on. It is like saying I am intellectual but never study. If I am in the Church, I can commune with the God of Faith, even if only mentally. But outside of it, with no guide, even this is not possible. The only possible thing you can venerate is personal emotion, which is not spiritual at all. I guess they could be emotionalists. :rolleyes:
 
I think ‘there’s always room for one more hypocrite’ is the best retort. I might try to use it myself on strayed relatives whose tirades against holy mother Church include phrases such as the ones you wrote in your comment.

Prayer is always a good remedy. Don’t lose your own faith; remember St. Monica and how long and hard she prayed for her son’s conversion. It finally came about in a spectacular way.
 
I am not sure there is anything that you can say that will make them understand. I was that same person for most of my adult life. I made all the same comments and the reality was that I had committed sins that I did not think could ever be forgiven. So, instead of even attempting to go back to the Church, I had to convince myself that I did not need the Church and then find reasons why the Church was not necessary in my life.

Pray, pray, pray. That is all I can say. The prayers that were said for me and the help of the Blessed Mother brought me to her son and He brought me back into His arms. I was out of the Church for 34 years. It is never too late. Show just by your actions the joy and love and peace that God and the Church bring you.

If you can get the family member to Divine Mercy Sunday or even to confession, it could make a big difference. My sister got me to confession in 2002, Divine Mercy Sunday in 2006 and it was in March of 2007 that I had my conversion in Medjugorje. Now, together we pray for other members of our family and for all sinners. 🙂
 
The last time someone said that to me I was in a bad mood. So I told them to go and tell that to someone with as little knowledge as they had.

Anyway. I would advise not to say that.
  1. Do they truly believe that all church members are hypocritical?
  2. What is wrong with those people who go to church that are not hypocritical?
Once you have them thinking on those lines they will see that their position is basically a bad one.

After that if they believe in God you can then start to point out the reasons we should be going to church.

Paul
 
So the opposite must be true…to be religious but not spiritual? Is that the norm?
Speaking only in Catholic terms, many Catholics are spiritual but not religious. In other words, they are Catholic through and through but have little affection for the insitution. And at times the Church feeds this notion. What I mean is that, at times, the Church is interested in attendance and membership rather than identity and discipleship. I think that what some Catholics mean when they say they are spiritual but not religious.
 
Mark 8:34-35
*If any man will follow me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel, shall save it. *

To live life with the Lord is an action verb. It means sometimes doing things we don’t want to do-- which in this case, includes going to church.

Much of the world today is lost in a quagmire of Moralistic Theraputic Deism (google.com/search?hl=en&q=moralistic+therapeutic+deism). That’s what it means to be “spiritual but not religious”. And it’s a sad, doomed path.
 
I always tell people that as soon as they find a perfect church, join it. And the second they join it, it will cease to be perfect (though I heard that from someone else).

We are called to hypocrisy. It’s part of being Christian. We are called to preach what is pure and honest, good and holy; but none of us can live up to our own standards. This isn’t a point for despair, its the point for rejoicing because it shows us our weakness and makes us rely on God’s infinite mercy and compassion. In other words, thanks be to God that we are all hypocrites.
 
I don’t agree that we are all hypocrites. I believe that we are all sinners and to some, our actions may appear to say that we are hypocrites. We profess to live by the doctrines of the church, but we do not always do so. That doesn’t mean we are hypocrites, it means we are sinners. The key is that we keep trying. Those who hold up their faith as a badge and then live as someone without faith is definitely a hypocrite if they don’t even try to live a holy life.

I know so many people who say they believe in God and who do not go to church and they think they are good people and that because they are good, they will go to heaven. The problem is that they still live a life of sin and they never repent nor atone for it, nor do they even recognize it. They do things that are wrong and they always justify it. They cheat on their taxes or make a deal with the guy fixing their roof to up the estimate so they get a little out of the insurance company. They have casual sexual relationships, they lie and they live their life in thrall to material possessions. I know so many people who do these things, which are mortal sins, and they think they are following God.
I do pray that if they have not converted before they die, that the Lord will be there to give them a chance at that moment to choose him above all else.

We can live up to the standards that Jesus gave us. We will fall often, but he is waiting with open arms to receive our contrite confession and take us back. The center of the Catholic Faith and the Church is the Eucharist. People need to start receiving it daily and worthily and the Grace of God will flow and it gives us what we need to resist sin and to live our lives as Christ wants us to.
The tradition of the Catholic Church and the practice of it is our religion. The only spirituality we will have will come to us from the Holy Spirit. If it is not of God, it is of Satan. Unfortunately the evil one has convinced so many that he does not exist. 🙂
 
allana said:
What do you say to someone (especially if it’s a family member) who believes that religion and church are a waste of time because of hypocritical church members and that once they pray to God and believe in him and do good works that that’s enough?
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Hi, well I’d say that there’s nothing “unspiritual” about religion, and that actually church has brought me closer to God, not further from Him 🙂 especially the Sacraments! A person who would say this, probably doesn’t believe in the Sacraments.

I’d also say that church and the Sacraments give us the grace to do all these things - to pray, believe, and do good works - more effectively! 🙂 just look at the Saints! maybe it would help this person to learn more about them?

As for hypocritical church members… this isn’t the fault of the Church. It’s just human nature. In fact, it proves that we need a Savior, and need help… I think someone once said, that the Church is a hospital for sinners. So we shouldn’t be surprised to find sinners there. 😉 and there are hypocritical people everywhere… in every religion, even in atheism. We can’t escape this. The only thing we can do is not be hypocrites ourselves. And if we see a problem in the Church, all the more reason to belong to it, to help solve the problem!

hope that helps…

God bless!
 
I don’t think anyone goes to church because he’s perfect. He goes to become better.

What’s wrong with that?

Maybe the real question is, Are people any better for going to church? Well, some are (most, I would say), some aren’t (the vast minority). Not really a reason to condemn the whole thing, though.

Really, if someone were to study Catholicism in any depth at all, he’d find that so many of these “spiritual” questions have already been debated, analyzed, hypothesized, assessed, fought over, and finally resolved by the Catholic church–probably over a thousand years ago. The rest has just been re-learning.
 
srlucado said:
I don’t think anyone goes to church because he’s perfect. He goes to become better.
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Agreed. People outside the Church often look at Catholicism as the religion of the “perfect” and think that we’re all sinless and pure. Ha. Would that it were! Catholicism is a religion of sinners, feeble and broken losers. All trying to get our lives straight. It’s not that we’re hypocrites. We’re all trying to STOP being hypocrites.

Remember the words of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in Mark 2:17:
Jesus hearing this, saith to them: They that are well have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. For I came not to call the just, but sinners.
 
EnchantedEve said:
I tend to find that those who claim that they are spiritual, but not religious, are really neither. How can you meditate on a spirit when you have no religion to base it on? What do they ponder, clouds, streetsweepers?

Speaking as someone who suffered from aridity of spirit for nearly a decade, I held to my religion, knowing my spirit would fall into line when the time came. Without religion, how is this possible? Gosh, how do you even know what “spiritual” is?

In my opinion, this is an irrational position. One cannot acknowledge a spirit and have nothing to base it on. It is like saying I am intellectual but never study. If I am in the Church, I can commune with the God of Faith, even if only mentally. But outside of it, with no guide, even this is not possible. The only possible thing you can venerate is personal emotion, which is not spiritual at all. I guess they could be emotionalists. :rolleyes:
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I think you are way off base. Most people I know who started out athiest/agnostic, on their path to the church, went through a phase of “spiritual”. I have come to believe it is the Holy Spirit softly reminding them to seek a possibility they’d been denying. Oftentimes, they just can’t put their finger on what it is. Hence “spiritual”, not religious, as there is (not yet) a corresponding religion/structure to explain the feeling.

This sort of dismissive attitude doesn’t help people find their faith 😦
 
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