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Elzee
Guest
Our priest makes ths distinction time - he admires ‘spiritual’ people but not ‘religious’ people.
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jmcrae
Guest
“I want people to say nice things about me at my funeral, but I’m too lazy/confused to really figure out what it is that I believe in, or to commit to anything that might require that I recover from my addictions, or take the initiative to reconcile with estranged friends and family members.”
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Oscarthecat
Guest
This doesn’t make sense to me-
When you say that you admire “spiritual” people, but not “religious” people, you are implying that people who are religious are not spiritual. If you say someone is “religious but not spiritual” you are really saying that they are practicing a religion without faith or devotion, and so that differentiation is impossible.
If they are going through the motions of a religious action, that doesn’t make them religious-it makes them tired.
I think that the role of spirituality in one’s sense of their own religious identity is underemphasized. A religious person must, by definition (see the Catholic Dictionary by Hardon) operate according to a defined spirituality.
To say someone is religious but not spiritual is to say that they fly the flag, march in parades, etc, but are not patriotic.
To say someone is spiritual but not religious is to say that they are patriotic, but they do not have a residence in or even citizenship in any country-effectively leaving their patriotism meaningless and empty.
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Teakafrog
Guest
Yup. 100%. I know, because I used to say it. When I didn’t want to get out of bed to go to church in the morning. Or when I wanted to make my own choices, knowing good and well that the bible said ‘no’. Or when I felt guilty because I wasn’t even living up to my own expectations, let alone anyone else’s.
Man, I do NOT miss those days! I have so much more peace in my life now that I’m ‘religious’, I would never go back. It’s a cop out plain and simple for those of us too lazy to do anything about our spiritual lives. Glad I left that behind 10 yrs ago.
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puzzleannie
Guest
being spiritual in its broadest sense that even a new-ager can understand means being attuned to movements of the Spirit within oneself and aware of one’s spiritual needs, beyond the wordly bodily needs. Being religious means awareness and acceptance of the Source of the Spirit, seeking knowledge of that Source, and ultimately loving Him. Religion in all its manifestations is rendering to God what is owed to Him–worship, praise, thanks, contrition, adoration, obedience.
someone who claims to be spiritual but not religious is fooling themselves, because they refuse to acknowledge the origins of spiritual impulses, and yes they do have a religion, they worship their own egos, senses, emotions and gratifications of the spiritual impulse without rendering any duty to God.
someone who claims to be spiritual but not religious is fooling themselves, because they refuse to acknowledge the origins of spiritual impulses, and yes they do have a religion, they worship their own egos, senses, emotions and gratifications of the spiritual impulse without rendering any duty to God.
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DaughterSorrow
Guest
The term “religious” to “spiritual” people sometimes has as negative connotation. Think of the Pharisees - they knew the letter of the law, but they didn’t know the spirit of the law.
I used to be one of those “spiritual” lapsed Catholics who thought 'religious" people were judgmental. I was spiritual in the sense that I prayed, I meditated, I was thankful to the Creator for my blessings, but I did not want to associate myself with organized religion.
Those were my old perceptions.
Thankfully, I came home and can be spiritual in my religion. I would think a spiritual person would be someone who relies on, thanks, and exudes the presence of God. Sometimes, there can be someone who does this that has not found his/her church. I can say from experience that I have never felt MORE spiritual than I have while embracing Catholicism.
In His Peace,
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blessedtoo
Guest
I could not agree more! In fact, when one claims to believe in a “force”, or “higher being”, or “energy”, I have to wonder what kind of personal relationship they could have with this “entity” that doesn’t even have a name? I could hardly feel secure about “energy” presenting the truth of life or the guidelines of existence. In my own personal experience, claiming “spirituality” without religion is usually a way to escape the truth while still claiming some transcendent experience. puzzleannie is right: their religion is the worship of self.
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Andruschak
Guest
Oh my. What memories. Since I came into AA over 22 years ago, I have heard lots of “AA is a spiritual program, but not a religious program. AA is not allied with any sect or denomination” But they say the CHRISTIAN Lord’s Prayer at meetings, and the Protestant version at that. (Most of early AA were Protestants.)
Which explains why I also hear a lot of “I am spiritual, but not religious” at AA meetings. My own take (this is only an opinion, not endorsed by my 3 cats) that most refer to living a life of “Love and Service” based on working the 12 steps.
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jmcrae
Guest
I think for a lot of people in AA, AA itself is their religion.
I suppose one could do worse, all things considered.
I suppose one could do worse, all things considered.
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Peter_DiMitri
Guest
It’s an expression of Shlepitude (assuming I’ve spelled that correctly).
We live in a country of Shleps, as Father Groeschel aptly points out. Large groups of people can’t commit to, well… anything. Nothing holds our attention for more than a few minutes, nothing outrages or motivates us. We have a country where a “BIG” turnout for election is 50% of registered voters.
Religion is tough. It has rules, it has standards. It speaks of spiritual reward but also spiritual punishment. It specifically calls us to understand that there are tangible things that we must do to get closer to God (receive Sacraments, pray, read scripture, etc.).
A “Spiritual but not Religious” person knows there is a God. But he or she simply cannot be bothered to commit to God in any inconvient way. And that’s basically what a shlep is: unable to really commit to anything that takes effort outside of gratification of some sort.
We live in a country of Shleps, as Father Groeschel aptly points out. Large groups of people can’t commit to, well… anything. Nothing holds our attention for more than a few minutes, nothing outrages or motivates us. We have a country where a “BIG” turnout for election is 50% of registered voters.
Religion is tough. It has rules, it has standards. It speaks of spiritual reward but also spiritual punishment. It specifically calls us to understand that there are tangible things that we must do to get closer to God (receive Sacraments, pray, read scripture, etc.).
A “Spiritual but not Religious” person knows there is a God. But he or she simply cannot be bothered to commit to God in any inconvient way. And that’s basically what a shlep is: unable to really commit to anything that takes effort outside of gratification of some sort.
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Andruschak
Guest
There is an EXCLENT pamphlet put out by AA titled “A Member’s Eye View of AA”. It gives a superb overview of the AA program as it should be, and as it sometimes lapses. Including trying to make AA a sort of spiritual ghetto. If you have an AA Central Office in your area, you can pick up copies there. Otherwise, try an open AA meeting.
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PseudoHermit_22
Guest
For most of those people it is Pride and Sloth.
I am sure there are some with authentic spirituality but most of the time people who say this are the ones that don’t want to “be told by someone else how to live their lives” and don’t want to get out of bed on Sunday morning to go to church.
(Now i am not saying they are bad people and are going to hell, etc – not judging the people, just categorizing the behavior as something to be avoided.)
Father Groeschel’s “Schleppitude” theory is great – I think I saw the episode where he refers to this saying
I am sure there are some with authentic spirituality but most of the time people who say this are the ones that don’t want to “be told by someone else how to live their lives” and don’t want to get out of bed on Sunday morning to go to church.
(Now i am not saying they are bad people and are going to hell, etc – not judging the people, just categorizing the behavior as something to be avoided.)
Father Groeschel’s “Schleppitude” theory is great – I think I saw the episode where he refers to this saying
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DonProfondo
Guest
That was a couple of weeks ago. I remember thinking, “I wish I had thought of that!”Father Groeschel’s “Schleppitude” theory is great – I think I saw the episode where he refers to this saying
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Steadfast_love
Guest
Ooh! This thread makes me so mad! If someone is spiritual but not religious, why call them names and make assumptions about their vices? The Catholic religion is True and Authentic. It should be preached to anyone who says “I have spirituality but no religion.”
First preach – then kick the dust of your sandles. Not the other way 'round.
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PseudoHermit_22
Guest
I agree. I was a little harsh but here in Los Angeles the people that say this are the same ones that bash “organized religion” and view Catholicism as archaic and out of touch and often have very low opinions of us personally. I do have a lot of bitterness but I have been through the mill here – it is something I am working on.
If someone is spiritual but not religious, why call them names and make assumptions about their vices? The Catholic religion is True and Authentic. It should be preached to anyone who says “I have spirituality but no religion.”
First preach – then kick the dust of your sandles. Not the other way 'round.
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Pilgrim525
Guest
I think probably what the priest meant was ‘spiritual’ people are those who have a deep and personal relationship with God and we see them living their faith as faithfully as they should. They are the people who hears the word of God and act on it. ‘Religious’ people would be those who would probably tend to ‘show-off’ their piety and devotional practices but do not practice the teachings of her religion in real life.There are so many of this ‘religious’ kind in parishes. They are actively involved for instance in charitable outreaches but when you enter their homes they do not treat their househelp charitably. Maybe the priest was referring to these kind of people.
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Liberalsaved
Guest
I think the writers of the Bible did a lot of that, since not everything noted as pertaining to God was ever actually stated by God through prophets, or by Jesus.
To me, it simply means you are more capable of using a divinely inspired/created mind in personal ways to try and understand the divine. I can’t imagine an all-powerful deity would give us the most powerful minds on the planet, and desire us to use them to blindly accept everything we are told about Him/Her/It. That would seem a little like God was playing with us.
Just because there is a set of characteristics in place, doesn’t mean they do or are meant to explain everything. Since, by the Christian conception, God is going to give followers what amounts to perfect knowledge of the nature of God once in Heaven, it seems kind of pointless to expect them to totally accept a conception that can not possibly be wholly accurate on Earth.
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LilyM
Guest
But why would God leave his imperfect and very limited creatures to stumble around blindly relying on their own tiny faculties? Don’t you think he’d give us a bit of special guidance? Like, say, through the prophets and His own Son?
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timcath
Guest
I think the statement “I’m spiritual but not religious” is not really the correct question because they are two attributes that are not exclusive. They are not really in opposition to each other.
You can be more or less spiritual i.e. having a greater sense of connection with God/creator/higher being etc, and more or less religious i.e. utilizing different structures and methods that are organized for belief and communities of believers.
They are just ranges of different attributes, so you can have a person that is very religious and very spiritual because they do everything that a particular religion expects of a believer, as well as deriving a spiritual benefit and connection. You can also have a person that does everything that a religion requires but is doing it for other reasons and is not spiritual.
Therefore you can also have a person that is spiritual but is not involved in the particular practices of any religion. They may believe in God and Christ, but not involve themselves in community or overt practice that would be considered as religion. It may be private prayer and prayer through work and other acts, without any organisation, dogma or rules, but a life led with God and His creation as their teacher and example rather than other people or books. Whether that is a valid way to be a Christian or a Catholic is probably the real question.
Tim
You can be more or less spiritual i.e. having a greater sense of connection with God/creator/higher being etc, and more or less religious i.e. utilizing different structures and methods that are organized for belief and communities of believers.
They are just ranges of different attributes, so you can have a person that is very religious and very spiritual because they do everything that a particular religion expects of a believer, as well as deriving a spiritual benefit and connection. You can also have a person that does everything that a religion requires but is doing it for other reasons and is not spiritual.
Therefore you can also have a person that is spiritual but is not involved in the particular practices of any religion. They may believe in God and Christ, but not involve themselves in community or overt practice that would be considered as religion. It may be private prayer and prayer through work and other acts, without any organisation, dogma or rules, but a life led with God and His creation as their teacher and example rather than other people or books. Whether that is a valid way to be a Christian or a Catholic is probably the real question.
Tim
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fix
Guest
The OP said:
Those are my ideas.
As to your question I guess it comes down to definitions. Plenty of people I know claim to be spiritual, yet reject organized religion. Are they spiritual? Well, in many cases if we define that to mean one who thinks a higher power exists and one should attempt to be a “good” person as one self defines then I would say one could be spiritual and not religious.
Of course, I think the definitions they use are inaccurate.
Also, I think someone mentioned Oprah as an example. I agree that is a pefect example for many of these cases.
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