Spiritual Direction - is it common?

[houston1]

CAF members,

Is it common to feel confused after meeting with your SD? What I mean by confused is, in my case, I wonder whether my SD and I are the right fit. This is my concern.

Since early December, I have met with my current SD four times. I chose this SD because he was a priest who celebrates Mass frequently and receives the Eucharist frequently, which are very important to me because I attend daily Mass and receive the Eucharist daily and I want my SD to have a similar desire. I also chose this SD because I was informed by a person close to me that he would be orthodox with Catholic teaching and would not steer me wrong as far as Church teaching goes. However, I was also informed by this same person that he had disobeyed his superiors in regards to some matter related to his parish which caused him to be reassigned. However, this person believed that he may have “learned his lesson” from this experience. So, I thought I’d give him a chance. I asked him to be my SD and he accepted.

Today when I met with him and one other time, he made use of an example of how someone’s disobedience had resulted in a good or, at least, neutral result. The example that he used today was a personal experience of his from long ago where some other seminarian had left the group (although he was required to remain with the group) to go wander around and discovered something that would have caused the death of multiple persons. I responded quoting Rom. 8:28 that God works everything for the good to those who love Him, and He even uses our sin. Then, I questioned him asking, “But, does the end justify the means?” and he quickly agreed that the end doesn’t justify the means.

Also, he recommended that I read St. Theresa’s “Interior Castle” and the “Fire Within” but when I had questions about the “castles,” he was unable to really sort through the detail as he had read them so long ago.

I know that one isn’t supposed to switch SDs but I wonder if I should look for someone else. The difficulty is that my current SD has helped give me someone to talk to about spiritual matters and has helped me sort through one particular matter that had been distressing to me. However, I am so confused because I am questioning the obedience and prayer thing. Will he help me in those areas? I am very serious about living the Gospel and want someone directing me that has that same desire.

What should I do?

Thanks for your help. I always remember the CAF members in my prayers.

houston1

 

[AlanFromWichita]

It sounds like together you are saying that according to Rom 8:28, even our past sins will work for the good of those who love the Lord, who are called to His purpose. But that doesn’t make the past sin any less sinful. Nor, would I suppose, should you rejoice that a sin was committed, but I would think rejoicing because of the result that God made is in order. I see the risk is for one to become “casual” about sin because God will find good temporal effects, but that IMO is a matter of spiritual maturity whether it’s going to be a problem. Sinning to see what the Lord will do – which is “testing” Him – would be the extreme case of this faulty tendency.

So far the things you have said in your post don’t concern me about an SD, but if you don’t like working with him, you don’t have to explain why not.

I’m curious what it might be that you desire that he may not desire – or at least be able to help you with? Why don’t you work on a brief outline of what sorts of things you’d like to do, and bring it to your next meeting? Ask him if these are things he can help you with, and if not, what is it that he can help you with? That way you are telling him good information about your own hopes and expectations, and you are deferring to him to make the final suggestion. At that point you will both have all your cards on the table. Good chance he’d love to hear where you want to go because a good SD can go with you on your individual journey and not use just a “cookie cutter” approach.

Alan

 

[houston1]

It sounds like together you are saying that according to Rom 8:28, even our past sins will work for the good of those who love the Lord, who are called to His purpose. But that doesn’t make the past sin any less sinful. Nor, would I suppose, should you rejoice that a sin was committed, but I would think rejoicing because of the result that God made is in order. I see the risk is for one to become “casual” about sin because God will find good temporal effects, but that IMO is a matter of spiritual maturity whether it’s going to be a problem. Sinning to see what the Lord will do – which is “testing” Him – would be the extreme case of this faulty tendency.

So far the things you have said in your post don’t concern me about an SD, but if you don’t like working with him, you don’t have to explain why not.

I’m curious what it might be that you desire that he may not desire – or at least be able to help you with? Why don’t you work on a brief outline of what sorts of things you’d like to do, and bring it to your next meeting? Ask him if these are things he can help you with, and if not, what is it that he can help you with? That way you are telling him good information about your own hopes and expectations, and you are deferring to him to make the final suggestion. At that point you will both have all your cards on the table. Good chance he’d love to hear where you want to go because a good SD can go with you on your individual journey and not use just a “cookie cutter” approach.

Alan

Alan,

On the Rom. 8:28, I used that as a meeting him “halfway,” i.e., I was trying to gently correct him without making a super big deal about that he condoned “sin.” I hate sin and I want to be obedient in everything to the extent that I am aware that obedience is required in a given case (that includes obedience to my SD and I have been so far). My concern is that my SD doesn’t seem to have the same attitude about obedience.

Basically, I want my SD to guide me to become a saint. With this being my goal, shouldn’t I seek to be directed by a person who desires the same for himself or herself? I am not certain that my SD desires sainthood. I base this on his examples concerning cases where persons have disobeyed. My understanding is that all the saints were obedient to their superiors. Many of them even suffered personally for their obedience - I am thinking of St. Gerard Majella for example.

Thanks for your post. I am still confused about what to do and would appreciate more advice now that I have described my goal.

houston1

 

[coachdennis]

Comments:

1. Your friend who, referred or recommended this SD “knows” a lot about this person and seems to have no qualms about sharing them. I find this, in my opinion, a bit odd. Why would someone vouch for someone’s orthodoxy, and then throw a “but” in the conversation.
2. Have you communicated your spiritual goal “to become a saint” as clearly to SD as you did in this post?
3. The relationship between an individual and their SD is unique and different for each relationship. Like any relationship there is an investigatory stage where each of you should be free to say “this is not working for me” and wak away.
4. In my opinion, the SD should be a balancing act between supporter the person and “challenging” them. A SD should not be your “yes man”.
5. The SD’s spiritual goals and challenges in their lives are THEIRS, not yours. A SD should not, in my opinion, should not bringing his or her stuff into the discussion,
6. In my opinion, I would not feel comfortable offering spiritual direction to someone who felt I was not holy enough. In the dynamic you are describing, I would be the one to tell you to find another spiritual director.

Well, you asked…

 

[jpjd]

On the Rom. 8:28, I used that as a meeting him “halfway,” i.e., I was trying to gently correct him without making a super big deal about that he condoned “sin.” I hate sin and I want to be obedient in everything to the extent that I am aware that obedience is required in a given case (that includes obedience to my SD and I have been so far). My concern is that my SD doesn’t seem to have the same attitude about obedience.

If you feel you need to correct your SD on something, then it’s time to find another one. HE is supposed to be guiding YOU, not the other way around.

There is no rule about not switching SDs. You need to find one who is a good fit. You may have some false starts before you find the right one, and there is nothing wrong with that. And your SD should not take offense at this. God Bless.

 

[houston1]

I thank you all for your posts. Good points from each of you. To clarify, my expectation is not to discuss the personal goals of my SD in our meetings. What I hope to assess is that my SD is as serious about his/her spiritual life as I am hoping to be. It seems that one should be lead by a similar minded SD. So one must make some sort of assessment based on available information.

From what I conclude from your posts, I should be direct in telling my SD my goal. Up until now, I haven’t been that clear. And, I’ll ask him if he can help me get to my goal. I’ll see where we go from there.

Thank you for answering my post. I will remember you all in my prayers.

Houston1

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I thank you all for your posts. Good points from each of you. To clarify, my expectation is not to discuss the personal goals of my SD in our meetings. What I hope to assess is that my SD is as serious about his/her spiritual life as I am hoping to be. It seems that one should be lead by a similar minded SD. So one must make some sort of assessment based on available information.

From what I conclude from your posts, I should be direct in telling my SD my goal. Up until now, I haven’t been that clear. And, I’ll ask him if he can help me get to my goal. I’ll see where we go from there.

Thank you for answering my post. I will remember you all in my prayers.

Houston1

I think that’s the biggest suggestion – be clear about your goals. You may have set the bar higher than some directees, but I am sure there are plenty of others with the same in higher goals in mind.

And I do believe that the SD should be hard core enough to take you where you want to go. And I understand the preference that the SD be similarly minded, and I think it is OK, if a bit awkward, though, to ask the SD what their goals are – although personally I can’t see myself asking that question. In general I like to see what they have to offer and how that works, and I don’t worry about their own personal beliefs. Because sometimes people are better at coaching others than they are themselves, and I have been helped in many ways by such people, both professional and not.

So yes you are free to choose, and to walk away for any reason, even if you don’t like the way he looks – like I say you don’t need a valid reason because the spirit may be guiding you at a level high enough to discern but subtle enough not to be able to explain.

That said, I don’t understand why pointing out what you accept as a lesson on Rom 8:28, and how it applies to mistakes that have been made, in condoning sin. I just don’t see that. Maybe he’s showing you that your own sinfulness is not an obstacle to your future spiritual growth? In fact, those who have many sins forgiven, love the most. (Luke 7:47) From what you’ve said, that he’s given these examples I can’t tell where he’s going with it. Do you disagree with Rom 8:28 or believe he is telling you lies about the sinfulness of the saints of old? If not, then be careful not to jump to conclusions about his motives for telling you these things. If you want to be totally honest with him, just ask him straight out, “how can we use my knowledge of these things to forward my spiritual growth?” If he can’t answer, but keeps telling the stories, then dump him. My guess is that if you do get to this level of honesty with him, you will clear things up to the point that you will find a lot of wisdom … there is no point in expecting an SD just to tell you what you already expect to hear; then you’re looking for affirmation rather than direction. Hopefully this man has knowledge and suggestions that you need, so judge his approach with caution and respect. Maybe he saw you as a bit self-righteous and you need to be cut down a notch? Who knows, except maybe him?

Alan

 

[houston1]

I think that’s the biggest suggestion – be clear about your goals. You may have set the bar higher than some directees, but I am sure there are plenty of others with the same in higher goals in mind.

And I do believe that the SD should be hard core enough to take you where you want to go. And I understand the preference that the SD be similarly minded, and I think it is OK, if a bit awkward, though, to ask the SD what their goals are – although personally I can’t see myself asking that question. In general I like to see what they have to offer and how that works, and I don’t worry about their own personal beliefs. Because sometimes people are better at coaching others than they are themselves, and I have been helped in many ways by such people, both professional and not.

So yes you are free to choose, and to walk away for any reason, even if you don’t like the way he looks – like I say you don’t need a valid reason because the spirit may be guiding you at a level high enough to discern but subtle enough not to be able to explain.

That said, I don’t understand why pointing out what you accept as a lesson on Rom 8:28, and how it applies to mistakes that have been made, in condoning sin. I just don’t see that. Maybe he’s showing you that your own sinfulness is not an obstacle to your future spiritual growth? In fact, those who have many sins forgiven, love the most. (Luke 7:47) From what you’ve said, that he’s given these examples I can’t tell where he’s going with it. Do you disagree with Rom 8:28 or believe he is telling you lies about the sinfulness of the saints of old? If not, then be careful not to jump to conclusions about his motives for telling you these things. If you want to be totally honest with him, just ask him straight out, “how can we use my knowledge of these things to forward my spiritual growth?” If he can’t answer, but keeps telling the stories, then dump him. My guess is that if you do get to this level of honesty with him, you will clear things up to the point that you will find a lot of wisdom … there is no point in expecting an SD just to tell you what you already expect to hear; then you’re looking for affirmation rather than direction. Hopefully this man has knowledge and suggestions that you need, so judge his approach with caution and respect. Maybe he saw you as a bit self-righteous and you need to be cut down a notch? Who knows, except maybe him?

Alan

Alan, thanks for your reply. I would really like for my current SD to work for me. As I have said, he has helped me tremendously in one particular area. I do believe God lead me to him so that he could help me with that issue. That is why I am confused by these other things that seem to be possible red flags.

As you said, his motive in using the “disobedient” examples may be more a message of hope than of condoning sin. I seem to recall that we had just been discussing my parenting of my strong-willed son who frequently fails to comply with rules at home and at school. He had advised me to encourage my son’s willful nature toward the good since his assertive nature can be great in accomplishing things. That may have been his motive. Also, the story my SD shared about the “disobedient” seminarian had personally impacted him because he would have in all likelihood died along with many other seminarians at the time had the “disobedient” seminarian not been at the right place at the right time to discover the problem. I am sure my SD will never forget that moment. Perhaps, he just wanted to share the story. Okay - so, perhaps I am needlessly worrying here on this.

Yet, here is another concern which I failed to mention in my original post. This is of more concern to me. As I said, my SD recommended that I read St. Theresa of Avila’s “Interior Castle” along with the “Fire Within” by the late Fr. Thomas Dubay (this book analyzes the prayer experiences of St. Theresa and St. John of the Cross). I’ve made good progress in reading the “Fire Within” and when I asked my SD about how to apply detachment to my life and of removing unnecessary things from my life, he said that St. Theresa’s spirituality may not be for everyone and that I may be called to be an Epicurean. I didn’t know what he meant at the time. I asked for clarification and he said something else that I didn’t understand. When I got home, I researched the meaning of “Epicurean” and discovered that it meant devoted to sensual pleasure. I know that I am a layperson, a mother, and a wife. And, he may be exaggerating in his use the word, epicurean. However, I thought we are all called to “renounce all that we have” to be disciples of Christ (see Lk. 14:33). We are all called to be holy. Am I overthinking this? Is this concern legitimate?

Lastly, I do not intend to ask him about his personal goals. I just want to ask him if he believes he can lead me to mine. I know that the pursuit of sainthood is an ambitious goal. However, I know that “all things are possible with God” and that He is eager to give "good things to those who ask him! " (see Mt. 19:26 and Mt. 7:11) Isn’t God, Himself, the greatest gift? And, shouldn’t everyone want to see God immediately upon death without having to be apart from His presence for one moment?

I will plan to discuss this goal with my SD the next time I meet with him. I would appreciate any additional thoughts any of you may have especially on the Epicurean comment. I may be overanalyzing this. Your comments have been very helpful.

houston1

 

[AlanFromWichita]

He had advised me to encourage my son’s willful nature toward the good since his assertive nature can be great in accomplishing things.

So in essence instead of trying to squash his will and passion, you’re trying to entice it into committing to things that are still attractive to him but yield better fruit than what he’s doing now?

I am sure my SD will never forget that moment. Perhaps, he just wanted to share the story. Okay - so, perhaps I am needlessly worrying here on this.

Please don’t take this as the final word, because it’s just a hunch. I’m wondering if, in your desire to be completely orthodox, that you have inadvertently also come to embrace a way of “rating” people according to their orthodoxy? After all, if you want to be the most of anything, one way is to measure it, and then try to control it? (hmm… “control.” )

To me it sounds like he’s trying to move you beyond the first half of your spiritual journey, where your primary concerns are about “the law of sin and death” as Paul refers to it, and whether we are right or wrong, in state of grace or not, and other dualistic considerations. You know, self-control issues. You may have that down already.

He’s trying to move you toward being a mystic “seer,” who sees things as they are and not just as they appear to the worldly mind. Like introducing Mary to Martha, with the idea that eventually the two will cooperate perfectly to make you completely balanced. If you’re expecting him to help you increase your will power so you may be behave better, he may substitute a totally different strategy that involves instead surrendering your will and even your thoughts to the Holy Spirit, for example through contemplative prayer (see CCC 2700-2724) and other means. He is trying to make you something IMO even beyond what you’re asking for; instead of having a better worldly understanding, he is trying to cross you over into your second half of the journey. From what you’ve said, I’d say stick close to this guy, and trust he’s pointing you toward places that you and the Lord would both love to see you.

And, he may be exaggerating in his use the word, epicurean. However, I thought we are all called to “renounce all that we have” to be disciples of Christ (see Lk. 14:33). We are all called to be holy. Am I overthinking this? Is this concern legitimate?

I don’t know what he meant, either. Just brainstorming here … I’m thinking maybe the concern is that your beliefs are based on sensual (from the senses) (name removed by moderator)ut: what you can see, smell, hear, touch, taste. (Note the Mass involves all five senses.) Sort of a “I’ll believe it when I see it” doubting Thomas sort of situation. Perhaps your anxiety over whether he is right for you, is showing itself to him in some way? Like I say just brainstorming here … but some say that the worldly mind says “I’ll believe is when I see it,” and the faith mind says, “I’ll see it when I believe it.” If you can adopt the latter mentality, I’d be interested in whether he’d see improvement on this “epicurean” thing. Or maybe he caught the vibes that you were wary of his approach?

Isn’t God, Himself, the greatest gift? And, shouldn’t everyone want to see God immediately upon death without having to be apart from His presence for one moment?

Yes, exactly. God Himself is the greatest gift, and that’s what he’s pointing you toward with the mystical literature. He wishes for you that you undergo Transforming Union – which is much more profound change than just learning something new or getting better at something else – until you experience Divine Union. This is they type of union talked about in the Catechism section I mentioned above about contemplative prayer. Transforming Union is a healing and renewing that takes place via the Holy Spirit, aka the Divine Therapist.

If you build up your will power against sin, then IMO you have but strengthened your will. If you instead surrender the whole matter to the Holy Spirit, then He will guide you in ways that will change you so that you are not even oriented toward doing sin any more. It’s like gravity reverses and now lifts you up instead of holding you down.

I will plan to discuss this goal with my SD the next time I meet with him. I would appreciate any additional thoughts any of you may have especially on the Epicurean comment. I may be overanalyzing this. Your comments have been very helpful.

Yes, I’m still not sure about the epicurean, but so far I really like this guy and think you may have found a winner. My SD started me in 2001 (at age 42 – first time I’d ever heard of such a thing as SD) in contemplative prayer aka “resting in God,” and it took me at a critical point in my life where I had just begun an 11 year psychotic episode and lost my job just a month before, into total healing in the year 2012. So basically I went nuts and plunged into my Dark Night of the Soul, and then a month later I was introduced to “real” spiritual growth by my SD. It sounds like you don’t have any problems with conscience, so that may be why he doesn’t speak more of developing it with you?

Well maybe I’m fooled but so far I’m encouraged. I’m anxious to hear what you think of the literature he recommended, and what he tells you to do next.,

Oh, and maybe if you are Epicurean you’d like to hear the assignment my SD gave me on my first meeting. He told me I should read it because I have a “technical” mind that thinks it needs to understand everything: read Job 38-42

Alan

 

[houston1]

Alan,

Thanks so much for responding to my questions again. After reading your response, my soul has come to peace on this. I believe that the Holy Spirit has spoken through you.

On your comment about my son, yes, I believe that that is what my SD meant in having me encourage my son’s willful nature toward the good.

On your comment about my desire that my SD be orthodox and that I may have been implicitly “rating” people according to that measure, you hit the nail on the head - as I now have come to see. I admit that I have a preconceived notion of what I think spiritual direction should be. I base this judgment on the limited spiritual reading that I have done and on what I believe to be what the saints have done. Yes, I am guilty here. I suppose that I should apply Luke 14:33 even further to my life and “renounce” the bias that I have about spiritual direction.

You are also correct on your insight that my SD may be trying to move me past the “law of sin and death.” I have spent significant time and prayer to avoid all sin to the extent that the Holy Spirit has revealed my sins to me. I know that I really need to “let go, and let God” take me further to embrace the law of love.

And, yes, I am more natured as a Martha. I am a CPA who now stays at home raising my son. I have a very regimented mindset. This is partly why St. Ignatius of Loyola’s spiritual discernment rules have worked so well for me up to this point. St. Theresa and St. John of the Cross are less intuitive to me. It has only been recently that I’ve tried to study them and tried to become more like Mary. This will require a special work of grace in me as I know that I cannot do this without God’s help.

On the epicurean thing, I’ll ask my SD to elaborate. What you say sounds reasonable. In honesty, I always ask God and the saints for “signs.” Yes, my mindset has been “I’ll believe it when I see it.” Yet, I also beg God to change me and that I trust that He will do so in His time. This is where my faith comes in because I don’t know how He’s going to accomplish this work in me. However, I am absolutely certain that He will do it.

On your comment about surrendering to the Holy Spirit, yes, I believe that, too. The HS has already done much for me in breaking attachments to certain things that, before, I didn’t even think possible. I am certainly moving more toward living the “abundant life.”

Thanks for sharing your personal story. It certainly helps to hear what others have experienced in their walk with God. I am 41 now. We’ll see where I’ll be in 11 years. . .

On matters of conscience, I have spent the last 7 years since I’ve been Catholic studying moral theology - i.e., what is sin, mortal verses venial sin, what is consent, what is temptation verses sin, etc. I am only now starting to lose the servile fear of God.

After I finish the Interior Castle, I plan to read St. John’s, Dark Night of the Soul. I look forward to it.

I’ve read the book of Job and I reread the chapters you just mentioned again to refresh my memory. Good stuff to remember and apropo for Lent. Who am I that I think that I know the mind of God?

So, thank you, thank you, thank you. I feel affirmed in keeping my SD.

houston1

 

[LilyPearls]

CAF members,

Is it common to feel confused after meeting with your SD? What I mean by confused is, in my case, I wonder whether my SD and I are the right fit. This is my concern.

Since early December, I have met with my current SD four times. I chose this SD because he was a priest who celebrates Mass frequently and receives the Eucharist frequently, which are very important to me because I attend daily Mass and receive the Eucharist daily and I want my SD to have a similar desire. I also chose this SD because I was informed by a person close to me that he would be orthodox with Catholic teaching and would not steer me wrong as far as Church teaching goes. However, I was also informed by this same person that he had disobeyed his superiors in regards to some matter related to his parish which caused him to be reassigned. However, this person believed that he may have “learned his lesson” from this experience. So, I thought I’d give him a chance. I asked him to be my SD and he accepted.

Today when I met with him and one other time, he made use of an example of how someone’s disobedience had resulted in a good or, at least, neutral result. The example that he used today was a personal experience of his from long ago where some other seminarian had left the group (although he was required to remain with the group) to go wander around and discovered something that would have caused the death of multiple persons. I responded quoting Rom. 8:28 that God works everything for the good to those who love Him, and He even uses our sin. Then, I questioned him asking, “But, does the end justify the means?” and he quickly agreed that the end doesn’t justify the means.

Also, he recommended that I read St. Theresa’s “Interior Castle” and the “Fire Within” but when I had questions about the “castles,” he was unable to really sort through the detail as he had read them so long ago.

I know that one isn’t supposed to switch SDs but I wonder if I should look for someone else. The difficulty is that my current SD has helped give me someone to talk to about spiritual matters and has helped me sort through one particular matter that had been distressing to me. However, I am so confused because I am questioning the obedience and prayer thing. Will he help me in those areas? I am very serious about living the Gospel and want someone directing me that has that same desire.

What should I do?

Thanks for your help. I always remember the CAF members in my prayers.

houston1

Your spiritual director could be like you in his spirituality or he could be totally different, but I don’t really think that matters. What matters is that he’s striving for holiness and that God wants you under his direction. If you know that this is where God wants you to be, then stay. My own spiritual director is very different than I am. At first I truly believed God had his hand on our relationship, and I was very excited about it. Then during our first few sessions I started to think of my director as a little kooky, and I was pretty uncomfortable. I was very honest about my feelings, trying not to be judgemental. I stuck with it and a few weeks later I realized that my director isn’t kooky, I was being closed minded. We’re very different people, and because of that my spiritual life has been opened to new areas of Catholic spirituality that I was closed off to before. My life has been completely enriched as my director and I run to Jesus together. It’s a beautiful relationship, even though (or maybe because?) we both know we’re quite different from each other. Pray about it, be humble about it, receive the sacraments, run to Jesus. God will help you!

 

[houston1]

Your spiritual director could be like you in his spirituality or he could be totally different, but I don’t really think that matters. What matters is that he’s striving for holiness and that God wants you under his direction. If you know that this is where God wants you to be, then stay. My own spiritual director is very different than I am. At first I truly believed God had his hand on our relationship, and I was very excited about it. Then during our first few sessions I started to think of my director as a little kooky, and I was pretty uncomfortable. I was very honest about my feelings, trying not to be judgemental. I stuck with it and a few weeks later I realized that my director isn’t kooky, I was being closed minded. We’re very different people, and because of that my spiritual life has been opened to new areas of Catholic spirituality that I was closed off to before. My life has been completely enriched as my director and I run to Jesus together. It’s a beautiful relationship, even though (or maybe because?) we both know we’re quite different from each other. Pray about it, be humble about it, receive the sacraments, run to Jesus. God will help you!

Lily Pearls,

Thanks for your thoughts. After reviewing all the responses to my post, I plan to continue receiving spiritual direction from my current SD. Hearing what others have to say about my situation has been helpful.

Thanks again and may God bless you.

houston1