Spiritual visions

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I know of a person from my parish who is claiming to be receiving visions of Jesus. The associate pastor, when questioned directly about the matter by someone I know well, apparently claimed that they are “true”. What is the proper protocol for verifying issues of this nature? I have been personally told by a reputable, trustworthy source not to put stock in the authenticity of these particular visions but am concerned that they be properly dealt with by all licit channels of authority as there are several fellow parishioners who are confused and worried about what to believe. The message being revealed in the visions concerns predictions of upcoming calamity in the near future. Just trying to get information about what direction to point friends to who are confused about whether or not to act on the warnings being given in the visions.
 
Strong topic this truly is. As a Catholic, my initial belief is to verify that the visions are indeed from the Lord. Make sure the person having the visions is a faithful and loving Catholic with full reception of the Seven Sacraments of Baptism, Penance, Holy Eucharist, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Matrimony and Anointing of the Sick. I would advise the person to definitely go to Penance. Make sure that they are receiving Holy Eucharist and attending Mass. That being said, pray to the Lord for blessed wisdom, understanding and knowledge. If this is foreseeable, this person receiving visions is blessed indeed. Make sure the visions are not of a lacking source such as the angel of light masquerading as an angel and messenger from God. It is also important to note that God is permitting such visions. Thus, the thought that they are simply a product of the imagination may be more clearly defined.
 
I would think the fellow parishioners should manage their thinking by believing what they know to be true. They can’t control what this other person is experiencing and just because that person says its visions from Jesus doesn’t make it fact.

As far as approval and licit channels - I don’t know how that works. If it becomes a distraction in the parish, wouldn’t the pastor get involved?

and I would hope the person claiming the visions would be seeking counsel - from a Catholic spiritual adviser and maybe even pscyhological if guided by said spiritual adviser.
 
In general, nobody is obliged to believe in any private revelation whatsoever. Even if they are true and approved, they are optional supplements and helps, not mandatory to follow.

If someone is having a vision sort of religious experience, it can be:
  1. A sort of devotional image which God influences, but which is mostly your own brain and imagination. Nothing wrong with that. Many people see pictures because they think visually, just like some people think up songs or sayings that come to them.
  2. Something sent by God, but still mostly a mental image.
  3. An outward vision, but something only the visionary can see.
  4. An outward vision that everybody around the visionary can see.
  5. An outward vision accompanied by physical manifestations and effects. (Like the Miracle of the Sun.)
However, you can also have non-religious experiences that resemble these things:
  1. Bad or un-useful imagination pictures that tend to go against true devotion to God.
  2. Hallucinations caused by drugs, toxins, fever, and other physical conditions.
  3. Mental delusions caused by mental illness.
  4. Pseudo-visions presented to the person’s brain or senses by the devil.
Discerning which is which is a job for an experienced spiritual director. Anything that goes against church teaching, or tends to make people despair, or is associated with the visionary getting more sinful instead of more virtuous, is generally not from God.

Beyond that, it would be the pastor and the bishop’s job to “test the spirits” and approve the visions or not. Usually it never gets to this point, because even true visions are fairly common and not usually in need of being distributed as news. The point of most visions is just to enrich the spiritual life of the person receiving them and those around him/her, by helping them become better persons. So really, it’s one of those things you should wait and see about.

If you’re interested in the principles of discernment, there are a lot of good books about it. Here are some:

The Ascent of Mount Carmel by St. John of the Cross.
The Spiritual Exercises by St. Ignatius of Loyola.
St. Teresa’s books, like The Interior Castle.
 
I’ve had a fair number of spiritual experiences over the years, but I’m still wary of their source.

I don’t have much trouble accepting that there may be “upcoming calamity in the near future”, just going on recent events alone.

I’ve often said that the night my own father died, he appeared in my room. He made some predictions, and some of them were pretty dire. I’ve written a narrative, which I’ve posted in instalment form in this forum in the past, but I left those particular predictions out, for political and religious reasons. And after all, it was a private revelation that no-one else has to believe anyway.

They concerned Moslems flying a couple of planes into a couple of buildings, a war for Australia in which we’ll lose a lot of people, a couple of nuclear wars and so on.

But he made those comments way back in January 1979 when he died. He appeared in my room on the night he died, not a day before or a day after, most likely at the very time he died, and I haven’t heard boo from him since. I think he’s in hell anyway, going by the terrifying scream just before he disappeared again.

I have had about three or four brief visions by my old pastor since he died, but they’ve usually be one line visions eg. “The Catholic Church is closest to the truth”. Then he just disappears again. Bear in mind he was a Protestant pastor himself.

I suppose I’m still a bit Protestant in my thinking, but I remember my conservative, wise old (Presbyterian, Methodist trained) pastor (the same one I mentioned above) making a couple of comments about judgement -

“If we keep going the way we are, I see nothing ahead of us but judgement.”

“The church is asleep” (regarding the possibility of God’s judgement).

“I think they (Catholics) soft pedal judgement. I think they do anyway.”

Then the term in a sermon “God’s formidable wrath…”

As to whether this person is getting visions and warnings from Christ however I’m not going to hazard a guess, because I don’t know But I’m pretty sure a well trained spiritual mentor could work out if they are or not. But they’d need to talk to the person themselves and draw them out.
 
As for upcoming calamities, let’s get on with it already – how much longer is God going to wait to end this miserable planet?

As for “what to do about it”, you should already have the answer to that question: Live life as a devout Christian, same as every day (since any day could be our last).
 
(disclaimer: ALWAYS wait for church approval before putting even the least bit of faith into supposed apparitions or visions) however in my personal opinion there are ways you can verify for yourself wether a person claiming to receive visions or messages is telling the truth or making it up. when you talk to them have them explain their version of events, but then repeat it to them and slightly alter certain details, if they try to adapt their explanation to yours then they are lying. however if they stick to their original version then that’s an indication that they may be telling the truth. police officers use this trick al the time, when they question someone they sometimes ask the same questions twice to see if the suspect will give the same answer or a different one. example:
COP: so you said you were a your friends house on the 29th?
SUSPECT: yes
(a few more questions later)
COP: so you said you were at your mothers house on the 29th?
SUSPECT: yes
liar! so to use an example with a so called mystic:
MYSTIC: I saws peter with a silver key in his hands and he told me this and that
you should test him/her a little later by asking: so you saw st peter with a golden key in his hands?
if the alledged mystic says yes then he fails the test and thus is a liar.
 
This person is indeed from an extremely devout family, is a daily communicant, an altar serves every day at daily mass. However, he has not received all the sacraments as he is a child and not old enough yet for confirmation. As far as I have been told he is receiving spiritual direction from the associate pastor. The messages he is receiving concern specific details about ISIS in America which has caused a fair amount of worry among parishioners who know what is going on. The messages also contains specific dates about when events will take place, which I have been told is an indication of demonic trickery rather than an authentic message from God. Can anyone shed any light on that?
 
Amanda_B said:
This person is indeed from an extremely devout family, is a daily communicant, an altar serves every day at daily mass. However, he has not received all the sacraments as he is a child and not old enough yet for confirmation. As far as I have been told he is receiving spiritual direction from the associate pastor. The messages he is receiving concern specific details about ISIS in America which has caused a fair amount of worry among parishioners who know what is going on. The messages also contains specific dates about when events will take place, which I have been told is an indication of demonic trickery rather than an authentic message from God. Can anyone shed any light on that?
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The same wise old pastor I mentioned in my post above (no. 5) was prophetic. He said several things that happened. Note that he would have said these things circa 1990 / 91, since he died himself in 1992. I’ll give a few examples -
  1. “I think there’ll be a second Gulf War. The Americans will have had enough of Saddam Hussein, and they’ll get rid of him. But I think they’ll lose a few men next time.(compared to the very low allied casualties in Gulf War I)…” The way he said “few”, it was quite clear he meant more than a few. Second Gulf War 2003, Saddam Hussein executed 2006, more than 4000 Americans killed.
  2. “I don’t think your (my) sister will live very long.” I think he also mentioned leukemia. My sister died aged 45 in 2005, of leukemia.
  3. “I think my (his) eldest son will have a major health breakdown…” He had a stroke in 1996 or 1997 and hasn’t worked since in any real sense. A very capable man before that.
  4. “I think there’ll be a bit of a conspiracy against you and you’ll lose your job…” I lost my then job in 1995.
  5. “I think you’ll become Catholic…” I became Catholic in 1996.
  6. The one that I always find a bit strange - “I think you’ll be doing a cleaning job for a while. You won’t like it much, and you won’t be doing it for long, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost…” I’ve related this one before elsewhere, so I’m not going into that here, but it happened in 2006. It even had a bearing on Catholic Answers Forums.
Etc.

But not once did he attempt to put a date to any of his predictions. And there was always that element of vagueness eg. “I think …” or “It seems to me…”

Now I’m not saying that this young person is being deceptive, or being deceived, but once I hear someone is putting specific dates on predictions, I get a bit wary.

My advice would be to leave this to your pastor, and make notes of the alleged events which are supposed to occur, and the alleged dates. Then if they happen, or don’t happen, you’ll know if they were bona fide or not.
 
Amanda_B said:
I know of a person from my parish who is claiming to be receiving visions of Jesus. The associate pastor, when questioned directly about the matter by someone I know well, apparently claimed that they are “true”. What is the proper protocol for verifying issues of this nature? I have been personally told by a reputable, trustworthy source not to put stock in the authenticity of these particular visions but am concerned that they be properly dealt with by all licit channels of authority as there are several fellow parishioners who are confused and worried about what to believe. The message being revealed in the visions concerns predictions of upcoming calamity in the near future. Just trying to get information about what direction to point friends to who are confused about whether or not to act on the warnings being given in the visions.
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Anyone claiming to have visions, messages etc should talk to their priest. It is up to him to decide if there may or may not be anything to them. If he says no then obey him. If he thinks there might be then he will take it up with the Bishop. If the Bishop says there is nothing then that must be obeyed. If the Bishop thinks there might be then he will set up a Commission to investigate. A Commission will at some stage make one of three decisions - yes the revelations are supernatural, no they are not supernatural, or no evidence of anything supernatural.

As another poster has said even if the Church declares the revelations to be supernatural Catholics do not have to believe them.

By the way there are all kinds upcoming calamities every day of the year! Nothing new or significant about that.
 
Amanda_B said:
This person is indeed from an extremely devout family, is a daily communicant, an altar serves every day at daily mass. However, he has not received all the sacraments as he is a child and not old enough yet for confirmation. As far as I have been told he is receiving spiritual direction from the associate pastor. The messages he is receiving concern specific details about ISIS in America which has caused a fair amount of worry among parishioners who know what is going on. The messages also contains specific dates about when events will take place, which I have been told is an indication of demonic trickery rather than an authentic message from God. Can anyone shed any light on that?
Click to expand...
If the messages lack hope for those who turn to God, then they’re probably not true.

Being devote doesn’t make one holy. The boy may be conditioned and prompted by his parents to behave in this way, and he’s conforming to their wishes.

Also, the child may be attached to the attention he’s receiving, but I would avoid judging on this.

St John of the Cross was asked to speak with a nun about visions she claimed to be having from Jesus.

After speaking with her, he concluded the visions were not real and she later admitted so.

One of the items I recall St John using to discern a true apparition, is that the person will transform from ordinary to holy and that holiness requires humility.

St Bernadette herself chose to take the long way to the grotto, in order to avoid attention that the crowds were giving her. She stayed out of sight in between apparitions, so as not to draw attention to herself.

Also, predictions of catastrophes, I can tell you right now, we have catastrophes coming, and I’m not receiving any locutions to warn you. It’s just common sense based on the events we see in the world, and the realization that no generation has ever gone without seeing hardships, wars, economic downfalls, natural disasters, etc. There is nothing surprising when some one predicts such things.

However, as I said before, if the apparitions are true, God will include a message of hope for the faithful, and a call for all to turn to him.

So the bottom line is, devote yourself to God and take these alleged apparitions with a grain of salt. If they’re real, well you’re doing what your suppose to anyway. If they are false, you’re still doing what you’re suppose to anyway.

Jim
 
I think we should pray that these prophesied attacks do not come to pass, if this accords with God’s will.
 
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