Spirituality of religious orders in Catholic tradition

[Padraig1972]

@True Light:

I will soon meet with the prioress for the Norwegian Lay Dominicans to discuss a path to formation. Can only speak from my own experiences, but: pray, go to mass, listen to the Lord and enjoy your newfound start as a catholic.

If it is meant to be, you will get your calling.

God bless you.

 

[TrueLight]

@True Light:

I will soon meet with the prioress for the Norwegian Lay Dominicans to discuss a path to formation. Can only speak from my own experiences, but: pray, go to mass, listen to the Lord and enjoy your newfound start as a catholic.

If it is meant to be, you will get your calling.

God bless you.

Thank you Padraig.

 

[TrueLight]

You can’t get more traditional than Benedictines, Carmelites, Dominicans and Franciscans. The youngest are the Franciscans and they’ve been around for 800 years.

I’d have to agree.

The work we were doing was good and needed to be done, but not by us. The large numbers of priests was also good, but not for us.

That is a sad casualty unfortunately. But I believe the orders should go back to their traditional roots.

I left after 14 years. It took me almost 25 years to come back to religious life. It finally dawned on me that the recovery was necessary.
Wow!

I like the word recovery better than renewal, since the word “new” in there gives some people apoplexies. The Traditionalists blamed it all on “modernism”.

What appeared to be modernism was probably a lot of priests and religious leaving their vocations. I don’t think that would have been the case if all the religious went back to living as they had before, right?

It was not the intention of Vatican I that this should happen. It was poor implementation. Does that sound familiar?

Yes.

 

[TrueLight]

This all goes to say that what a Traditionalist means when he says “tradition” may not be what a Benedictine or Franciscan mean when we say “tradition”. When we say traditional liturgy for us, we’re thinking of a fraternal community where there are no blurring of line between the ordained and non ordained. We’re thinking of monks singing Gregorian chant and Franciscans reciting the Divine Office. We’re thinking of monks praying the canon of the mass in a whisper and Franciscan shouting it out so that the rest can hear it as was always our custom. We’re thinking of monks not trying to convert anyone by preaching to them, but by hospitality and by their prayer and of friars going among non-Catholics as brothers who serve them and wait for them to come along as did the monks and friars of the middle ages. We’re thinking of friars blasting Catholics for not being Catholic enough and being quiet and gentle with non-Catholics, because brotherhood works better than a tongue lashing.

Thanks for making that clear. You should do things as you always have. I understand a little better your comments in the now-closed thread. But that doesn’t mean there can’t be more assertive soldiers for Christ from secular folks.

Would you say most of the orders going back to their roots?

Also, I understand the Dominicans have a traditional, ad orientem rite. Do the Franciscans have a similar, ancient rite?

I think for me I am attracted to “traditional” spirituality like those of the ancient orders. At the same time, if I were to attend a mass celebrated by a priest of that order, it would hopefully be using an ancient form of the mass, ad orientem.

But there is no rush for me. I’m just having fun learning.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

Franciscans of the Primitive Observance, Capuchin Franciscans, Franciscans of Peace, Franciscans of Life, I’m sure that there are others, but these are the ones that I know from the USA.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks. As for an earlier message you said, you said that Dominicans don’t preach on the street as far as you know. I looked up a Dominican site and it said they preach both on the streets and in buildings. I tried to find it but I couldn’t, however you’re analysis about there being less Dominicans than Franciscans is probably why people are under the impression that Dominicans don’t do street evangelization.

By the way, how many Franciscans are there as opposed to Dominicans? I tried to find anything on their numbers but I couldn’t. Do you have any idea about their numbers?

 

[Dorothy]

I am a Third Order Lay Carmelite and will be attending our monthly meeting tomorrow. For those who are interested, here is how our day goes:

8:00 - 8:30 Mass
8:40 - 9:00 Morning Prayer
9:00 - 9:15 Refreshments in hall
9:15 - 9:45 Business Meeting: Opening prayer, Announcements, Statute study from Carmel’s Call,
sharing about our recent retreat.

9:45 - 10:15 Community Lectio Divina (usually Sunday’s Gospel)
10:15 -10:30 Break
10:30 - 12:00 Community Spiritual Study: Elijah - Prophet of Carmel (discussion groups)
12:00 - 2:00 Candidate Study, Phase 2, Instruction 11: “Obstacles and Distractions to Prayer”

At end of Sept., beginning of Oct. we had our annual retreat at the Visitation Monastery in Mobile, Alabama. The retreat master was a Discalced Carmelite Priest. (O.C.D.). The group I belong to is O.Carm., and for the second time we shared a retreat with O.C.D. Secular Carmelites. The topic was an excellent one: Mental Prayer . Besides Morning, Evening, and Night Prayer of the LOTH, we are to do one/half hour a day of mental prayer.

I am 75 years old now, and was received into the Lay Carmelite Order in April of 1975. At that time I had eight children and the oldest was about 17. The challenge of that (being a mother of 8) brought me into a turmoil, and after talking to a friend after Mass one day she invited me to attend a Lay Carmelite meeting. The rest is history. God is so good! I felt as though our Blessed Mother picked me up and put me in there and said “this is where you need to be”.

It certainly made big changes in my vocation as wife and mother! I had never known there was such a thing as third orders until my friend invited me to one.

 

[TrueLight]

I am a Third Order Lay Carmelite and will be attending our monthly meeting tomorrow. For those who are interested, here is how our day goes:

8:00 - 8:30 Mass
8:40 - 9:00 Morning Prayer
9:00 - 9:15 Refreshments in hall
9:15 - 9:45 Business Meeting: Opening prayer, Announcements, Statute study from Carmel’s Call,
sharing about our recent retreat.

9:45 - 10:15 Community Lectio Divina (usually Sunday’s Gospel)
10:15 -10:30 Break
10:30 - 12:00 Community Spiritual Study: Elijah - Prophet of Carmel (discussion groups)
12:00 - 2:00 Candidate Study, Phase 2, Instruction 11: “Obstacles and Distractions to
Prayer”

At end of Sept., beginning of Oct. we had our annual retreat at the Visitation Monastery in Mobile, Alabama. The retreat master was a Discalced Carmelite Priest. (O.C.D.). The group I belong to is O.Carm., and for the second time we shared a retreat with O.C.D. Secular Carmelites. The topic was an excellent one: Mental Prayer . Besides Morning, Evening, and Night Prayer of the LOTH, we are to do one/half hour a day of mental prayer.

I am 75 years old now, and was received into the Lay Carmelite Order in April of 1975. At that time I had eight children and the oldest was about 17. The challenge of that (being a mother of 8) brought me into a turmoil, and after talking to a friend after Mass one day she

invited me to attend a Lay Carmelite meeting. The rest is history. God is so good! I felt as though our Blessed Mother picked me up and put me in there and said “this is where you need to be”.

It certainly made big changes in my vocation as wife and mother! I had never known there was such a thing as third orders until my friend invited me to one.

Dorothy,

Thanks so much for sharing.

Do you need to have a strong Marian devotion to be a Carmelite?

Also, do Carmelites do any evangelization?

Thanks.

 

[Dorothy]

Dorothy,

Thanks so much for sharing.

Do you need to have a strong Marian devotion to be a Carmelite?

Also, do Carmelites do any evangelization?

Thanks.

Our Blessed Mother and the prophet Elijah are the models for our order, and the Carmelites are the oldest order in the Church that is dedicated to Mary. We call her the Queen and ornament of Carmel.

Most conscientous Catholics have a devotion to Mary that usually deepens as we spiritually mature. We don’t use a measuring stick to see how deep it is when prospective candidates fill out an application form to take instructions.

Reaching out to others to tell them about the faith comes naturally as we come to love the Lord more through prayer and sacraments. There is no structured way that we evangelize. I remember when I began going to the meetings there were two ladies in particular (The Director and the Formation Director), that just radiated peace and love in a way that they weren’t even aware of, and I wanted that same peace.
They evangelized me just by their example.

The Lay Carmelites live out the charism of prayer in their families, their careers and ministries and in their parishes in various ways.

To deepen one’s prayer life is a life-long journey.

 

[TrueLight]

Our Blessed Mother and the prophet Elijah are the models for our order, and the Carmelites are the oldest order in the Church that is dedicated to Mary. We call her the Queen and ornament of Carmel.

Most conscientous Catholics have a devotion to Mary that usually deepens as we spiritually mature. We don’t use a measuring stick to see how deep it is when prospective candidates fill out an application form to take instructions.

Reaching out to others to tell them about the faith comes naturally as we come to love the Lord more through prayer and sacraments. There is no structured way that we evangelize. I remember when I began going to the meetings there were two ladies in particular (The Director and the Formation Director), that just radiated peace and love in a way that they weren’t even aware of, and I wanted that same peace.
They evangelized me just by their example.

The Lay Carmelites live out the charism of prayer in their families, their careers and

ministries and in their parishes in various ways.

To deepen one’s prayer life is a life-long journey.

Thank you.

 

[jwinch2]

Very compelling Dorothy, thanks for sharing!

Peace,

 

[Dorothy]

True Light and Jason,

You are welcome!

I very much like sharing about the Lay Carmelites.

 

[jwinch2]

Thanks. As for an earlier message you said, you said that Dominicans don’t preach on the street as far as you know. I looked up a Dominican site and it said they preach both on the streets and in buildings. I tried to find it but I couldn’t, however you’re analysis about there being less Dominicans than Franciscans is probably why people are under the impression that Dominicans don’t do street evangelization.

Anyone looking to get a decent understanding of the scope of the Dominican apostalate around the world should consider reading: Sing a New Song: The Christian Vocation by Fr. Timothy Radcliffe, OP. Fr. Radcliffe is the former Master of the Order and the book is a collection of his letters and talks with members of the order as he traveled around the world. In the book he talks about he various places where Dominicans are living out their vocation. In particular, he talks about places torn by war such as Rwanda, Iraq, etc; and places where there are still issues of slavery such as parts of Brazil; and places where the poor are almost forgotten such as Calcutta. He discusses concepts such as linking the intellectual tradition that goes on in the Houses of Study with the realities which are being lived in those places listed above. Some of the scenes he describes in places where the order has a presence are heartbreaking, some are unbelievable, and some are downright appalling in their brutality and the casual manner in which life is treated. Furthermore he discusses concepts such as linking a biblical approach to life and even conversation along with the philosophical approach which is so common to many of the learned in theology.

I highly recommend this book for anyone who wishes to learn more about the Order of Preachers and the ways they are living out the spirituality of St. Dominic in the modern world.

In addition, people can take a look at groups such as Dominican Volunteers International to see ways in which the Order is making an impact in the world, working with the poor or marginalized, and living their vocation.

 

[TrueLight]

Anyone looking to get a decent understanding of the scope of the Dominican apostalate around the world should consider reading: Sing a New Song: The Christian Vocation by Fr. Timothy Radcliffe, OP. F

Done. It greatly increased my understanding of the Order of Preachers. Thanks for recommending it!

 

[jwinch2]

Done. It greatly increased my understanding of the Order of Preachers. Thanks for recommending it!

Happy to have done so.

I have about 10 pages left in it myself. I am splitting time reading my stack of books on the Ordo Praedicatorum with my study bible. Next on my list is: The Life of Saint Dominic by Agusta T. Drane

 

[TrueLight]

Happy to have done so.

I have about 10 pages left in it myself. I am splitting time reading my stack of books on the Ordo Praedicatorum with my study bible. Next on my list is: The Life of Saint Dominic by Agusta T. Drane

You recommended that to me as well!

When I finished it, my first thought was where can I sign up?

Although I admit I feel the same way after reading all the Saints, LOL, including St Francis of Assisi and St Theresa.

So where do I sign up to be a lay Franciscan, Dominican and Carmelite?

 

[jwinch2]

So where do I sign up to be a lay Franciscan, Dominican and Carmelite?

There almost too many wonderful ways to approach God. Of course I am being facetious, but one can certainly feel pulled in multiple directions at times.

For myself, I started off looking for additional formation and an approach to spirituality following my confirmation. I looked into Opus Dei for a time but decided after a while that it wasn’t where I was being called to go, though I do love listening to St. Josemaria when I have the chance. Following that, I was torn between Ignatian and Dominican spirituality. Both have many wonderful saints, a strong intellectual tradition, and have a wonderful outlook on spirituality. To that end and due to the fact that there are no lay orders for the SJ or OMV, I looked into the Ignatian Associates, and even considered trying to plant a chapter in my parish. Even though I still have great affection for St. Ignatius, the Society of Jesus, the Oblates of the Virgin Mary, and the Ignatian Associates; I have come to believe that I am called to seek God through the Dominican tradition.

In a very real sense, with God’s help, I have prayed and studied my way to this decision which, as it turns out, is a very Dominican thing to do. Thankfully, as God Himself told Saint Catherine of Sienna, Dominic’s ship has plenty of room for sinners, as well as saints. I need all the help I can get!

It sounds as if you are feeling a bit similar and are being tugged in multiple directions. One thing you might consider is simply looking into what is in your area. I think when you are new to the Church as you and I both are, it can be harder to discern what is a call from God versus what is the seeking of one’s own soul for God.

Here is what I mean. If God wants you to go in a particular direction in terms of spirituality, he probably won’t make it impossible for you by putting the nearest chapter 500 miles away. If you honestly cannot decide between the SFO, Lay Doiminicans, and Secular Carmelites, and only one of them is a realistic option for you based upon location, perhaps that is God’s way of taking the decision out of your hands and making it for you.

 

[TrueLight]

It sounds as if you are feeling a bit similar and are being tugged in multiple directions. One thing you might consider is simply looking into what is in your area. I think when you are new to the Church as you and I both are, it can be harder to discern what is a call from God versus what is the seeking of one’s own soul for God.

Here is what I mean. If God wants you to go in a particular direction in terms of spirituality, he probably won’t make it impossible for you by putting the nearest chapter 500 miles away. If you honestly cannot decide between the SFO, Lay Doiminicans, and Secular Carmelites, and only one of them is a realistic option for you based upon location, perhaps that is God’s way of taking the decision out of your hands and making it for you.

Good advice.

The good thing is that I am not feeling in any hurry. I am just happy to be learning and experience everything I can.

 

[jwinch2]

The good thing is that I am not feeling in any hurry. I am just happy to be learning and experience everything I can.

In that you are wiser than I. Frankly, I envy your patience.

I felt a strong need to maintain the momentum which I felt coming through RCIA to its completion in the Easter Vigil. Following that, my wife and I were forced to move from a parish and from people we really had fallen in love with. I was more than a little concerned that it would be challenging for me to continue to grow with all of the anger and frustration I had built up due to the circumstances which were causing us to move. I have always been a person who wears my emotion on my sleeve for all to see. Despite my academic training, I still react quite viscerally to life’s challenges. In short, I have the world’s worse poker face!

God in His mercy seems to have recognized my weakness and has given me something to latch onto; a bit of a safe harbor, for lack of a better description. I take great comfort in knowing that the Dominican way is one that, if I have the strength to live it well, will lead me on a sure path to God.

Regarding your situation, do you have any of the options you described above in your immediate area?

 

[TrueLight]

In that you are wiser than I. Frankly, I envy your patience.

Well, I haven’t even been confirmed yet. When that happens, watch out!

Plus I have other things keeping the momentum going.

I felt a strong need to maintain the momentum which I felt coming through RCIA to its completion in the Easter Vigil. Following that, my wife and I were forced to move from a parish and from people we really had fallen in love with. I was more than a little concerned that it would be challenging for me to continue to grow with all of the anger and frustration I had built up due to the circumstances which were causing us to move. I have always been a person who wears my emotion on my sleeve for all to see. Despite my academic training, I still react quite viscerally to life’s challenges. In short, I have the world’s worse poker face!

God in His mercy seems to have recognized my weakness and has given me something to latch onto; a bit of a safe harbor, for lack of a better description. I take great comfort in knowing that the Dominican way is one that, if I have the strength to live it well, will lead me on a sure path to God.

God is good, isn’t he?

Regarding your situation, do you have any of the options you described above in your immediate area?

There is a woman in my parish who has just been accepted as a “novice”? with the lay Dominicans. I’m sure that is not the word. But I know she meets in the City, so that’s close.

I know a lay Carmelite and I believe she meets in the City as well…

 

[jwinch2]

Well, I haven’t even been confirmed yet. When that happens, watch out!

Plus I have other things keeping the momentum going.

I thought you had been recently confirmed, I must have been remembering it incorrectly.

God is good, isn’t he?

Very good. Only He could have turned my life around in the manner that He has.

There is a woman in my parish who has just been accepted as a “novice”? with the lay Dominicans. I’m sure that is not the word. But I know she meets in the City, so that’s close.

I know a lay Carmelite and I believe she meets in the City as well…

Interesting. So there appear at the least to be a couple of options on the table. So much for my theory…