Spirituality of religious orders in Catholic tradition

[jwinch2]

I have “The way, the furrow, and the forge” in a one volume book but I agree that I did not see any discernible plan. However, as was mentioned, those books are more collections of quotes rather than a narrative with structure…

 

[JReducation]

I am reasonably familiar with the work of St. Josemaria. One in my parish is a member of Opus Dei and I attend the Men’s Evening of Recollection here in Atlanta when I can. But I too would be interested in hearing if there is a specific plan outlined by St. Josemaria, which perhaps I missed or handn’t seen yet, or if the plan which Brother JR referenced is more of the saint’s general mission in founding Opus Dei, finding holiness in ordinary life. I get the sense, from what I know about St. Josemaria, that it is the latter, rather than the former, and would be surprised to find out if there was a book with a plan outline or something like that.

TrueLight, all of St. Josemaria Escriva’s written works are available online at escrivaworks.org/. He is probably most known for “The Way” which is a collection of quotes, browsable by subject. The quotes on detachment are at escrivaworks.org/book/the_way-subject-62.htm

***It has been a long trial this time. Perhaps — and without the perhaps — you haven’t borne it well so far, for you were still seeking human consolations. And your Father— God tore them out by the roots so as to leave you nothing to cling to but him. ***
The Way 722

Detach yourself from people and things until you are stripped of them. For, says Pope Saint Gregory, the devil has nothing of his own in this world, and naked he comes to battle. If you go clothed to fight him, you will soon be pulled to the ground: for he will have something to catch you by.
The Way 149

All the things of this world are no more than earth. Place them in a heap under your feet and you will be so much the nearer to heaven.
The Way 676

-Tim-

This is a good summary of St. Jose Maria’s plan. When we think of plan, we often think of some kind of rule or system. That’s not what he lays out. What he lays out a spirituality, a worldview, an approach to life as evidenced through his writings. I can’t think of a single work where he pulls it all together and says “This is the plan from A to Z.” If there is such a work, I’ve never seen it. Rather, through is life, her keeps answering questions and teaching. As you read what he wrote and listen to some of his talks, which are very available, you begin to see that he’s not all over the place. He has a sense of direction… Of course the ultimate place is to reach sanctity. The how to get there is very unique to him. You get there through your daily life. He continuously reminds you of the things that you have to let go in order to bring God into the present moment.

I remember seeing video of him talking to a group in Venezuela. He mentioned something about the man who goes to his office and is bored of his job. He speaks about letting go of the reasons for being bored and focus on what your doing for God. Obviously, I’m paraphrasing. He said it much more eloquently

Tim is right

But I too would be interested in hearing if there is a specific plan outlined by St. Josemaria, which perhaps I missed or handn’t seen yet, or if the plan which Brother JR referenced is more of the saint’s general mission in founding Opus Dei, finding holiness in ordinary life.

The plan is laid out here. As I said, over the years, people asked more questions and he added, clarified and explained even more deeply. It’s a very good spirituality for anyone, must just the man who works in an office or the woman who stays home to care for her family.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[jwinch2]

I have known for some time about the relationship between the Order of Friars Preachers and the Order of Friars Minor. Mostly from Brother JR who has mentioned it on here several times. What I was not aware of until very recently was the strength of the relationship between the two orders and their Holy Fathers, Francis and Dominic.

So the other night I was reading from one of my books on Saint Dominic (Drane, 1857), and the story of how Saints Dominic and Francis met was presented. What an incredible story! To think that Dominic had a dream about himself and Francis and how they should go out and convert sinners, and that the very next he saw the man in his dreams and knew instantly that they were to be comrades. I was not aware of how close the two great saints were or that they truly had a life long friendship from that point. How awesome!!! Their friendship was so strong that it is directed in the constitution of the Order of Preachers.
Constitution of the Order of Friars Preachers:

We declare that our Priors and Brethren should have a diligent care that they always and everywhere bear, and heartily preserve, a great love to the Friars Minor; let them praise them with their lips, and by their words kindly receive and courteously treat with them; and be solicitous as far as they can to be at peace with them. And if any do contrary let him be gravely punished. And let the Brethren beware lest they ever speak otherwise than well of them, either among themselves or to any of their friends. And if anyone, under the show of friendship, shall report any evil of the aforesaid Friars, our brethren must not be easy in believing it; but rather endeavor as far as possible to excuse them. And if it chance that the Friars Minor shall have provoked us by speaking ill of us, nevertheless let us in nowise publicly content with them.

To think that God chose to raise up two great saints and fathers such as Dominic and Francis at almost the same time to accomplish His mission but in distinct ways, is just incredible to me. I’d be curious to know if there is a counterpart to the above quote in the constitution of the Order of Friars Minor. Perhaps Brother JR will enlighten us.

Our holy father St. Francis and our holy father St. Dominic, pray for us!

 

[TrueLight]

So the other night I was reading from one of my books on Saint Dominic (The Life of Saint Dominic - Augusta Drane)…

I could have told you that.

 

[jwinch2]

I could have told you that.

Come on, I have three books going at the same time, plus my own writing and publications to worry about… Give a guy a break!

 

[TrueLight]

Come on, I have three books going at the same time, plus my own writing and publications to worry about… Give a guy a break!

I have no papers to write, but I’m almost done with St. Teresa, have one book on St Francis by St. Bonaventure, then I will be ready for more book suggestions…

 

[jwinch2]

…then I will be ready for more book suggestions…

Not me. I have books for the next two years. I have stack of books on Dominicans and Dominican Spirituality about two feet high and I am working my way through the Navarre Study Bible Series.

 

[Melchior_1]

Not me. I have books for the next two years. I have stack of books on Dominicans and Dominican Spirituality about two feet high and I am working my way through the Navarre Study Bible Series.

Tell me about it. I’m still trying to get through St. Catherine’s Dialogues.

 

[JReducation]

I have known for some time about the relationship between the Order of Friars Preachers and the Order of Friars Minor. Mostly from Brother JR who has mentioned it on here several times. What I was not aware of until very recently was the strength of the relationship between the two orders and their Holy Fathers, Francis and Dominic.

So the other night I was reading from one of my books on Saint Dominic (Drane, 1857), and the story of how Saints Dominic and Francis met was presented. What an incredible story! To think that Dominic had a dream about himself and Francis and how they should go out and convert sinners, and that the very next he saw the man in his dreams and knew instantly that they were to be comrades. I was not aware of how close the two great saints were or that they truly had a life long friendship from that point. How awesome!!! Their friendship was so strong that it is directed in the constitution of the Order of Preachers.

To think that God chose to raise up two great saints and fathers such as Dominic and Francis at almost the same time to accomplish His mission but in distinct ways, is just incredible to me. I’d be curious to know if there is a counterpart to the above quote in the constitution of the Order of Friars Minor. Perhaps Brother JR will enlighten us.

Our holy father St. Francis and our holy father St. Dominic, pray for us!

It’s funny that you mention this passage in the early constitutions of the Order of Preachers, because there is a similar command in the constitution of the Trinitarian Friars and the Camaldolese Monks. There is no such a quote or reference to any other order in any of the four rules that Francis wrote. There has always been a mutual respect and fraternal affection between the two families. The two families of friars cooperated in the erection of universities in Europe and the evangelization of the Americas and Asia.

St. John De Matha, founded the Order of the Most Holy Trinity (Trinitarians) just before Francis and Dominic founded their orders. In fact, theTrinitarians and Dominicans wear a very similar habit. The Trinitarians have a red and blue cross on their scapular. At the generalate of the Trinitarians there is a huge window with the image of St. John De Matha washing and venerating the feast of St. Francis. The Trinitarians also refer to him as the Seraphic Father or the Holy Father.

The Servites or Friar Servants of Mary also have a great devotion to Francis and to the Franciscan family. They were founded about 7 years after the death of St. Francis. They deliberately chose to live close to the Franciscans to learn from them. Eventually, they would grow and become an independent Augustinian order. They’re incredible. Their mission is to sanctify their friars and to serve the Blessed Virgin Mary. They had an overlap with the Franciscans in their strong stress on internal brotherhood.

This is actually the common thread between these orders: Franciscans, Dominicans, Servites and Trinitarians – fraternity and poverty. Everything else is subordinate to brotherhood and poverty. Brotherhood and poverty are sustained by a strong contemplative live. Ministry flows out of the brotherhood. These men and women go into the world to preach, serve, teach and more as a family, not as individuals.

I have found that some people believe that Franciscans do an overkill in our presentation of Francis. There is a poster on another thread who can’t seem to separate the charism of Francis and the Franciscans. This person is have a hard time accepting some of the titles that the Church has given to Francis, such as the Perfect Christian or the Mirror of Perfection.

However, when we look at passages such as these found in the statutes of other orders, acts of veneration as that of St. John de Matha, and the desire to learn from the Franciscan patriarch, Francis himself, such as was the case of the Servites, we realize that Francis is not a mythological figure that Franciscans inflated. Just the opposite. He was a very real person who was so charismatic that other great and holy men and women looked up to him (even though he was actually about 5’ 2") and by extension, they loved and continue to love his sons and daughters.

The Dominicans didn’t put this into their statutes, because they thought that every Franciscan was all that and a bag of chips. They put this into their statutes, because of their love for Francis. This love was taught to them and encourage by our Holy Father Dominic.

When you read it, it’s almost funny, because it says that if someone tells you something bad about a Franciscan, don’t believe what you hear and defend the Franciscan. The love that Dominic had for Francis was so strong that he would not allow any of his sons or daughters to entertain or tolerate a negative thought about Francis or his family. There was a passion there.

 

[JReducation]

Francis never wrote about Dominic or his sons. However, we know some things that he did, which are very telling of his love and respect for Dominic and the Order of Preachers. First, he reduced the friar’s outreach to Catholics, leaving the Dominicans to fight heresy. He had a great admiration for their knowledge of theology, even though we had men like Bonaventure and Anthony and women like Clare who were absolutely brilliant.

Second, he prohibited the use of the title Prior. He saw the Prior so far above our pay rate, that Franciscans could not aspire to be Priors. The Dominicans had priors. Franciscans were given Guardians to watch over the local house and Ministers to serve each of the regions.

When he setup his infrastructure, he was encouraged to follow that of the Dominicans, where they govern by consensus. Francis believed that he and his friars were not up to the challenge. This form of government was for the learned and the holy. He and his sons were not there. Instead, he imposed a totalitarian system of government. He is the only father. All other superiors are his successors and are bound to obey him. The brethren are bound to obey the superiors without questions. However, to keep the superiors humble, the superior must hold a monthly house chapter at which the brothers commanded the superior by laying at their feet the needs of the fraternity.

There was always a deference to the Dominicans as being superior the Franciscans. That’s how St. Anthony was discovered. He was a simple non-ordained brother. While at a reception for the ordination of a Dominican Friar, the Dominican Prior asked the Franciscans to say a few words. The Franciscan superior commanded Anthony to say a few pious words. When he got up to speak, he blew them away with his knowledge of scripture and theology. Francis ordered that he be ordained.

The point is that the Franciscans always deferred to the Dominicans, even when they had great minds among them. This has not changed to this day.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[jwinch2]

Great stuff Brother, thank you for sharing that knowledge.

Its funny that you stated that Francis felt that the Dominican form of government was for the learned and holy. In reading some of the previous Master of the Order, Timothy Radcliffe’s works he suggests that the reason for democratic government of the order is because they were not nearly holy enough, and because the necessary debate to seek consensus would allow them to learn from each other. He also suggests that putting everything on the Superior or even the Master might be too much for them to handle and they might not be up to it. Seeking consensus allows everyone to share the burden of governance.

Its funny how the perception changes from within and from the outside a group.

I find this stuff absolutely fascinating. I’m getting a nagging suspicion that if I ever want to truly understand Dominic, I am going to have to read Francis at some point down the line…

Peace,

 

[jwinch2]

Tell me about it. I’m still trying to get through St. Catherine’s Dialogues.

I feel you brother…

 

[JReducation]

Great stuff Brother, thank you for sharing that knowledge.

Its funny that you stated that Francis felt that the Dominican form of government was for the learned and holy. In reading some of the previous Master of the Order, Timothy Radcliffe’s works he suggests that the reason for democratic government of the order is because they were not nearly holy enough, and because the necessary debate to seek consensus would allow them to learn from each other. He also suggests that putting everything on the Superior or even the Master might be too much for them to handle and they might not be up to it. Seeking consensus allows everyone to share the burden of governance.

Its funny how the perception changes from within and from the outside a group.

I find this stuff absolutely fascinating. I’m getting a nagging suspicion that if I ever want to truly understand Dominic, I am going to have to read Francis at some point down the line…

Peace,

I believe that their perceptions tell us a great deal about their spirituality and their holiness.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

I find this stuff absolutely fascinating. I’m getting a nagging suspicion that if I ever want to truly understand Dominic, I am going to have to read Francis at some point down the line…

Peace,

When I read the Perfect Joy of St Francis, I got a glimpse of St Dominic which made me really curious about him. Then I read the two books on St Dominic you recommended.

I love both Saints so much!

 

[jwinch2]

I believe that their perceptions tell us a great deal about their spirituality and their holiness.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Agreed. Great and humble men.

To be honest, its more than a little daunting. As I am learning more and more the life of a Dominican, I feel very drawn to it, and at the same time I find myself considering my own ability or rather, lack thereof, to live up to those ideals.

Thanks again,

Peace

 

[jwinch2]

When I read the Perfect Joy of St Francis, I got a glimpse of St Dominic which made me really curious about him. Then I read the two books on St Dominic you recommended.

I love both Saints so much!

Interesting… I may have to add that one to my ever growing list. Later, not now…

 

[JReducation]

Agreed. Great and humble men.

To be honest, its more than a little daunting. As I am learning more and more the life of a Dominican, I feel very drawn to it, and at the same time I find myself considering my own ability or rather, lack thereof, to live up to those ideals.

Thanks again,

Peace

My advice to anyone discerning a Dominican vocation is to focus on deepening your life of contemplation. The preacher cannot give what he does not have. It’s not enough to give information. I think that’s what disappointed many Catholics during the 60s and 70s. The generation born after WW II was not prepared to deal with a changing world, because they were taught information, but they were not encouraged to develop a friendship with Christ or taught how to do cultivate it. God was a mystery to be adored, but the other part was not taught. God is also a person who has broken into human history and who is very present among us and wants to speak to us.

St. Dominic understood that it was not enough to know doctrine and moral laws. One needs a relationship with God that is cultivated in silence, prayer, Lectio Divina and liturgy. The Dominican discovers truth by contemplating Christ. He and Christ relate to each other as friends and brothers. In this relationship, God prepares the Dominican to understand what he studies. Contemplation makes understanding possible. Then you go out and preach about the God whom you know using theology and philosophy to explain what you have experienced.

When the Dominican goes out to preach, in whatever form that takes, he is preaching more than doctrines and moral rules. He’s preaching about a relationship. In the context of that relationship he learns the deeper truths of the faith.

The world needs this today. We spent too much time a the extremes. We went from teaching formulas and definitions without contemplation Then we went to the other extreme, where experience became so important that knowledge was set aside. However, this does not work. Experiences can be very deceptive.

Pope Benedict recently said that we must strike the balance between knowledge and relationship. I think that the Dominican and Jesuit traditions, better than any other, can offer modern man what he needs. The difference between the two is the supporting elements.

The Dominican is also the brother/sister and the poor man. The Jesuit is the soldier and the one who asks the tough questions that rattle you and force you to examine your faith and your relationship with God. They both have a rich tradition of experience and knowledge.

The Franciscan pays more attention to experience. We study, quite a bit. But we don’t make it our mission to teach. We study to make sure that what we experience is truth and not self-deception. Teaching is not our purpose in life. Our purpose is to preach through presence.

Again, if you’re getting ready to be a Dominican, try to dedicate as much time as possible to cultivating your intimacy with Christ. Remember how Aquinas would bang his head against the tabernacle when he could not find an answer. He would beg Christ to show him the answer. He did this, because Christ was his brother, not a strange God out there somewhere. Thomas knew that God is Incarnate; therefore, he demanded that the Incarnate God speak to him, just as we do with a brother. If you have intimacy with him and study hims, he will teach you what to preach.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[jwinch2]

My advice to anyone discerning a Dominican vocation is to focus on deepening your life of contemplation. The preacher cannot give what he does not have. It’s not enough to give information. I think that’s what disappointed many Catholics during the 60s and 70s. The generation born after WW II was not prepared to deal with a changing world, because they were taught information, but they were not encouraged to develop a friendship with Christ or taught how to do cultivate it. God was a mystery to be adored, but the other part was not taught. God is also a person who has broken into human history and who is very present among us and wants to speak to us.

St. Dominic understood that it was not enough to know doctrine and moral laws. One needs a relationship with God that is cultivated in silence, prayer, Lectio Divina and liturgy. The Dominican discovers truth by contemplating Christ. He and Christ relate to each other as friends and brothers. In this relationship, God prepares the Dominican to understand what he studies. Contemplation makes understanding possible. Then you go out and preach about the God whom you know using theology and philosophy to explain what you have experienced.

When the Dominican goes out to preach, in whatever form that takes, he is preaching more than doctrines and moral rules. He’s preaching about a relationship. In the context of that relationship he learns the deeper truths of the faith.

The world needs this today. We spent too much time a the extremes. We went from teaching formulas and definitions without contemplation Then we went to the other extreme, where experience became so important that knowledge was set aside. However, this does not work. Experiences can be very deceptive.

Pope Benedict recently said that we must strike the balance between knowledge and relationship. I think that the Dominican and Jesuit traditions, better than any other, can offer modern man what he needs. The difference between the two is the supporting elements.

The Dominican is also the brother/sister and the poor man. The Jesuit is the soldier and the one who asks the tough questions that rattle you and force you to examine your faith and your relationship with God. They both have a rich tradition of experience and knowledge.

The Franciscan pays more attention to experience. We study, quite a bit. But we don’t make it our mission to teach. We study to make sure that what we experience is truth and not self-deception. Teaching is not our purpose in life. Our purpose is to preach through presence.

Again, if you’re getting ready to be a Dominican, try to dedicate as much time as possible to cultivating your intimacy with Christ. Remember how Aquinas would bang his head against the tabernacle when he could not find an answer. He would beg Christ to show him the answer. He did this, because Christ was his brother, not a strange God out there somewhere. Thomas knew that God is Incarnate; therefore, he demanded that the Incarnate God speak to him, just as we do with a brother. If you have intimacy with him and study hims, he will teach you what to preach.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks Brother, for taking the time to offer that advice.

Peace,

 

[TrueLight]

My advice to anyone discerning a Dominican vocation is to focus on deepening your life of contemplation. The preacher cannot give what he does not have. It’s not enough to give information. I think that’s what disappointed many Catholics during the 60s and 70s. The generation born after WW II was not prepared to deal with a changing world, because they were taught information, but they were not encouraged to develop a friendship with Christ or taught how to do cultivate it. God was a mystery to be adored, but the other part was not taught. God is also a person who has broken into human history and who is very present among us and wants to speak to us.

St. Dominic understood that it was not enough to know doctrine and moral laws. One needs a relationship with God that is cultivated in silence, prayer, Lectio Divina and liturgy. The Dominican discovers truth by contemplating Christ. He and Christ relate to each other as friends and brothers. In this relationship, God prepares the Dominican to understand what he studies. Contemplation makes understanding possible. Then you go out and preach about the God whom you know using theology and philosophy to explain what you have experienced.

When the Dominican goes out to preach, in whatever form that takes, he is preaching more than doctrines and moral rules. He’s preaching about a relationship. In the context of that relationship he learns the deeper truths of the faith.

The world needs this today. We spent too much time a the extremes. We went from teaching formulas and definitions without contemplation Then we went to the other extreme, where experience became so important that knowledge was set aside. However, this does not work. Experiences can be very deceptive.

Pope Benedict recently said that we must strike the balance between knowledge and relationship. I think that the Dominican and Jesuit traditions, better than any other, can offer modern man what he needs. The difference between the two is the supporting elements.

The Dominican is also the brother/sister and the poor man. The Jesuit is the soldier and the one who asks the tough questions that rattle you and force you to examine your faith and your relationship with God. They both have a rich tradition of experience and knowledge.

The Franciscan pays more attention to experience. We study, quite a bit. But we don’t make it our mission to teach. We study to make sure that what we experience is truth and not self-deception. Teaching is not our purpose in life. Our purpose is to preach through presence.

Again, if you’re getting ready to be a Dominican, try to dedicate as much time as possible to cultivating your intimacy with Christ. Remember how Aquinas would bang his head against the tabernacle when he could not find an answer. He would beg Christ to show him the answer. He did this, because Christ was his brother, not a strange God out there somewhere. Thomas knew that God is Incarnate; therefore, he demanded that the Incarnate God speak to him, just as we do with a brother. If you have intimacy with him and study hims, he will teach you what to preach.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Good advice. I agree.

 

[iloveangels]

…just like it could be difficult for some Dominicans and Franciscans to go to huge Churches of splendor.

Not really. They are praise in stone–built to give glory to God. And the Church owns them, not me.